Why I Love HBP Snape (and Salman Rushdie Does too!)

Mar 21, 2007 12:08

I was just discussing with gioiamia, who like me recs on KIA, why I love Snape. She's involved with a LJ Community that speculates about Book 7, called hpbook7thoughts. That group isn't particularly SS/HG oriented, and Gioia actually considers Harry/Ginny her OTP. She says that everyone she knows in her corner of the fandom, Snape fan or not, believes Snape is still one ( Read more... )

hbp, snape

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mundungus42 March 21 2007, 18:36:53 UTC
Ooh! Ooh! One more Snape defense to share! My second LJ post ever (about a month after HBP came out) contains my lawyer friend's strategy for defending Snape in a court of law. Great stuff!

I don't know about other SS/HG writers, but HBP was a welcome inspiration. I've already written four SS/HG stories in the time since it came out, which is freakishly high output for me. I LOVE HBP Snape, I savored every interaction we got to see (like with Bellatrix and Narcissa in Spinner's End).

Exchange piece? I'm about 1,800 words in. I have a vague outline but it's going to be hard to write, especially if I continue not getting enough sleep and/or losing my sense of humor. Best of luck with muses and carrots!

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shiv5468 March 21 2007, 18:46:23 UTC
Your lawyer friend ... yeah that's not going to get him off the charge of murder. Oh no.

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harmony_bites March 21 2007, 18:50:33 UTC
I tend, sadly, to agree. I can't think of any criminal defense that could get Snape off. Not "assisted suicide" and not exigencies of war. The best we can hope for really would be a pardon, which doesn't depend on Snape being formally exonerated.

Well, in terms of RL law. Who knows what standards the Wizengamot goes by?

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shiv5468 March 21 2007, 19:01:08 UTC
Well neither of those defences are known in UK law, so that wouldn't help at all.

Nor do we have pardons for people. Unless they are dead.

But there are ways of getting him off the charges. Proper, lawyery ways that are sneaky and devious and dirty.

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harmony_bites March 21 2007, 19:06:19 UTC
Well neither of those defences are known in UK law, so that wouldn't help at all.

They're not valid defenses in the US either. We don't have laws allowing assisted suicide, and I can't imagine a military court that would allow for Snape killing Dumbledore because he was dying anyway and that would give him an in with Voldie. Basically, you can't get off because the victim asked you to or arranged with you to kill them.

But is wizarding law really the same as the UK's? I didn't see much resemblance in what we've heard of how they handled Sirius for instance. Or Harry when he was brought up before the Wizengamot. I'm not even sure they *have* lawyers.

But there are ways of getting him off the charges. Proper, lawyery ways that are sneaky and devious and dirty.

Oh, I'm all for that!

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shiv5468 March 21 2007, 19:18:40 UTC
Wizard law appears close to pre-feudal law, if anything, though I've seen it argued that the WW is under some sort of state of emergency rules.

Frankly, I think it's just written by a non-lawyer who knows nothing.

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harmony_bites March 21 2007, 19:23:21 UTC
Frankly, I think it's just written by a non-lawyer who knows nothing.

Undoubtedly. But to conclude that is cheating. We must assume HP is real and that it all fits, figure out what the legal system is like, and then get Snape off under those rules--or rules we can plausibly make up.

I don't think US or UK law will help in that regard though.

If we must--depends what kind of AU we have to create for ourselves after the last book. I may be pleading to not ignore HBP, but that doesn't mean I won't happily ditch Deadly Hallows as canon if it kills Snape.

Or *shudders* pairs Hermione with Ron in a happily ever after epilogue.

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shiv5468 March 21 2007, 19:28:29 UTC
I find law fics a bit irritating because everyone plumps for Oooh here is Dumbledore's penseive and that explains it all, and ... following orders hasn't been a valid defence anywhere.

And if I see one more fic with attorneys I am going to have a hissy fit. And I don't want to see barristers either, not unless they're being deployed properly.

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harmony_bites March 21 2007, 19:34:10 UTC
I find law fics a bit irritating because everyone plumps for Oooh here is Dumbledore's penseive and that explains it all, and ... following orders hasn't been a valid defence anywhere.

That's basically the crux of it--why you can't have "legal" defenses for what Snape did. Moral maybe, legal under existing systems no. Which is why if you're going to exonerate him you'd have to postulate that the wizarding world goes by very different rules--which there is some canon fodder for.

And if I see one more fic with attorneys I am going to have a hissy fit. And I don't want to see barristers either, not unless they're being deployed properly.

Most such stories are rather boring anyway, so I'm not calling for a story per see where Snape is successfully defended. But if you're going to have a post-HBP story where, instead of fleeing for his life a la "The Whole to Own" Snape winds up free and teaching at Hogwarts again, it would (for me) be more satisfying if there was *something* to explain how that happened.

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shiv5468 March 21 2007, 19:36:35 UTC
No. I can think of legal defences. Proper, legal defences that would work under almost any legal system. That would even work under what little we know of the WW legal system.

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harmony_bites March 21 2007, 19:54:42 UTC
Hmmm Ok, just thinking of US system, but off the top of my head:

Dumbledore was already dead. The poison killed him. People don't act the way Harry witnessed when hit by AK. Snape either was using another spell (with non-verbal spell possible what is said is not what you're necessarily casting) or he AK'd someone already dead. Basically, a defense that looks at causation since murder must "'legally cause' the death of a living-human-being victim." (Under US law anyway)

Snape was under Imperio perhaps? Thus he wasn't the perpetrator but the instrument? Otherwise hard to see this as a matter of "Coercion or Necessity" (Snape had to kill AD or would be killed himself along with Draco) which usually mitigates anyway, not exonerates.

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shiv5468 March 21 2007, 19:56:38 UTC
Bingo.

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mundungus42 March 21 2007, 21:44:40 UTC
Nor do we have pardons for people. Unless they are dead.

Fortunately, in the civilised United States of America, we have Presidential pardons for the deserving likes of Richard Nixon, Scooter Libby, and Presidential cousins. :b

Basically, a defense that looks at causation since murder must "'legally cause' the death of a living-human-being victim."

Ooooh, can you imagine WW autopsies? ::firmly squishes X-Files/HP plot bunny::

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harmony_bites March 21 2007, 21:56:11 UTC
Fortunately, in the civilised United States of America, we have Presidential pardons for the deserving likes of Richard Nixon, Scooter Libby, and Presidential cousins. :b

And those who slept in the Lincoln bedroom...

I thought pardons were part of monarchies and we got them from the mother isle?

Ooooh, can you imagine WW autopsies? ::firmly squishes X-Files/HP plot bunny::

*Here 'Dung bunny--have a carrot*


... )

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mundungus42 March 21 2007, 22:01:30 UTC
But I already have an X-Files/HP WIP to finish! WAH!

::giggles like mad at the bunny, offers yours one in return::

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shiv5468 March 21 2007, 22:09:25 UTC
Well if you aren't dead, you get let out on appeal. We definitely don't believe in letting people off just because....

That's in the magna carta actually.

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