Life can't stop me from reading books, even if I'm so busy it has to be while falling asleep or waiting for the bus...Yeah, Vellum was pretty interesting.
If someone's asking for a fic as a gift, they shouldn't be that picky. :/
So I guess I did have some issues with Link's characterization in that fic. XD Because that's it, I can't see him not resisting Komui's advances and leaving the room, and then he'd report Komui's ass to Leverrier or something. Also, I can't see him not knowing what masturbation is, much less reporting it to Komui (at least, not in a serious fic). But other than that, and in terms of his dialogue, he felt like Link. The greater issue was that I couldn't see Komui doing that at all, but then you wouldn't have a porn fic, huh. Basically, it's really hard to get Link to have sex except with Madarao in a serious fic. XD
The thing is, you don't have to use titles (epithets), or "the man," or anything other than pronouns and the character names. The character name is neutral and does not distract (in most cases), so the reader simply sees it and keeps reading. This is another thing to pay attention to when reading a halfway decent published novel--the use of epithets for named characters is most likely infrequent, and I'll be really surprised if "the man" is used for an identified character except in rare cases. (Or idiomatically, as in "The man was hopeless.") If you really have to, try picking one epithet, and one that makes sense from the character POV, but still, it makes for better writing not to use it so often. Basically, using epithets--especially long ones, or multiple ones, or ones like "the man" that are jarring in terms of the POV--is distracting.
In a way it's subjective, though. I get the impression a lot of fic readers/writers are so used to reading tons of epithets that they feel it has to be that way. For more info, this page has suggestions for using epithets properly (and I'd never seen that argument against using them before, which was interesting) and this one is also useful, and elaborates on what I've been trying to say about POV issues. (Sorry for all the links. I really enjoy reading articles about writing and fandom, among other things!)
You're really good at conveying character emotions and voice, I think. As for the beta reader thing, I disagree. A beta reader doesn't owe you reviews. Their job should be done by the time you post, and if you think there are still errors to be proofread, you should send the story back to them.
XD I wish I could say the same for me. But they (and video games) distract me far too much ^^; *has to be VERY careful*
Mm true. I mean...I can understand they see this perfect vision in their head--but if they can give THAT much detail (and can actually write themselves) then they should take a stab at it.
YES EXACTLY. I mean all I saw in that fic--again--was the conversation between Komui and Link. And then I realized 'ohsh--gotta add pr0n' so I really don't like it that much just for that fact but *shrugs* I did it, and I actually got it OUT on time. For that I can be somewhat proud of myself XD
*reads/makes notes* Mhm...mhm...okay then. *nod* I shall TRY that definitely. Hrm, so in first person POV it would be the same kind of thing *as in 3rd* right? *since I'm currently going through and editing Pressure--which is in 1st person* it'll definitely be something I keep my eyes out for--THANK YOU (again XD)
Usually I freeze up really bad when anything remotely close to 'grammar' pops up (like epithets), so it might take me a while to read those (again I never really LEARNED grammar. So it really makes me feel stupid when someone gives me links like that to articles about people I KNOW know more than I do) so um...^^; thank you but I probably...yeah it'll take me a while to get to those.
Meh well again I don't have a beta-er I just sent her the chapter and, well--she corrected it--but that was it. XD so I didn't hear ANYTHING on what she thought of the chapter. Which I'd like to hear because she's usually able to help me get on track with some ideas (or point things out in the chapter that need expanding on). IF she had in the email I wouldn't have minded, but she never does when I send her stuff, so ^^; *hence again, why I don't usually like people editing my stuff* if the only way they'll say something is in a review for the chapter XP
yeah unfortunately XP at least we all get along really well...
*random* My cereal's getting soggy *yes she eats cereal at 12:41AM at night*
Aww, that's too bad. Surely being distracted by books is a good thing, though! To an extent. I need to be less distracted by the internet. orz
Maybe they didn't think they could pull it off, or just thought it would take too long? But if you're writing something *for* someone, you should have more leeway instead of putting every detail of theirs down on paper (figuratively speaking).
Yes, at least you finished a fic for the challenge! But yeah, forcing pr0nz can make things go ooc fast. Why do I want to write a fic where Link reports someone for attempted assault now
Thanks for considering my suggestions! <333 Yes, the same thing applies to first-person POV. Your average POV character most likely thinks of the other characters by their name, or some variation thereof. Or by an official title, for example, if they belong to a strict organization and are rule-abiding. Link probably thinks of Lev as "Secretary Leverrier" or "the Secretary" (canon!), and if he simply thought of him as "Leverrier" it would strike me as a little off. But that's easy enough to know if you're familiar with canon, so I'll leave that to your instincts now. And I'll stop spamming you with links. XD
No no no, don't feel stupid! The word "epithets" might not be used often in this sense, but those fan-essays are about writing style, not grammar, and they're pretty straightforward. Most of what I know about grammar came through foreign language study, so I'm not really knowledgeable about English grammar. XD
Oh, I see, so your beta wasn't focusing on the things you wanted feedback on? In that case you could ask her for feedback on that, or find an additional beta. (I'm not volunteering here--I'm already editing a friend's ongoing fic, and school starts again tomorrow, so...XD) Personally, I like to give in-depth responses, so it's mostly suggested changes on things to improve, but also my reactions to specific scenes, and pointing out things I particularly like. We usually end up exchanging two or more drafts. Same for when she beta'd for me. <3 But what I hate is when I agree to edit someone's already-posted fic, which is time-consuming, and then they don't do anything with my edit, not even change typos or grammatical errors. :( *veers off into anecdotes*
In that case you can probably work it out. Just communicate what you want and try not to take anything personally, is my suggestion. That first part was learned the hard way.
If someone's asking for a fic as a gift, they shouldn't be that picky. :/
So I guess I did have some issues with Link's characterization in that fic. XD Because that's it, I can't see him not resisting Komui's advances and leaving the room, and then he'd report Komui's ass to Leverrier or something. Also, I can't see him not knowing what masturbation is, much less reporting it to Komui (at least, not in a serious fic). But other than that, and in terms of his dialogue, he felt like Link. The greater issue was that I couldn't see Komui doing that at all, but then you wouldn't have a porn fic, huh. Basically, it's really hard to get Link to have sex except with Madarao in a serious fic. XD
The thing is, you don't have to use titles (epithets), or "the man," or anything other than pronouns and the character names. The character name is neutral and does not distract (in most cases), so the reader simply sees it and keeps reading. This is another thing to pay attention to when reading a halfway decent published novel--the use of epithets for named characters is most likely infrequent, and I'll be really surprised if "the man" is used for an identified character except in rare cases. (Or idiomatically, as in "The man was hopeless.") If you really have to, try picking one epithet, and one that makes sense from the character POV, but still, it makes for better writing not to use it so often. Basically, using epithets--especially long ones, or multiple ones, or ones like "the man" that are jarring in terms of the POV--is distracting.
In a way it's subjective, though. I get the impression a lot of fic readers/writers are so used to reading tons of epithets that they feel it has to be that way. For more info, this page has suggestions for using epithets properly (and I'd never seen that argument against using them before, which was interesting) and this one is also useful, and elaborates on what I've been trying to say about POV issues. (Sorry for all the links. I really enjoy reading articles about writing and fandom, among other things!)
You're really good at conveying character emotions and voice, I think. As for the beta reader thing, I disagree. A beta reader doesn't owe you reviews. Their job should be done by the time you post, and if you think there are still errors to be proofread, you should send the story back to them.
Rping = inevitable drama, unfortunately. >.>
*flings petals*
Reply
Mm true. I mean...I can understand they see this perfect vision in their head--but if they can give THAT much detail (and can actually write themselves) then they should take a stab at it.
YES EXACTLY. I mean all I saw in that fic--again--was the conversation between Komui and Link. And then I realized 'ohsh--gotta add pr0n' so I really don't like it that much just for that fact but *shrugs* I did it, and I actually got it OUT on time. For that I can be somewhat proud of myself XD
*reads/makes notes* Mhm...mhm...okay then. *nod* I shall TRY that definitely. Hrm, so in first person POV it would be the same kind of thing *as in 3rd* right? *since I'm currently going through and editing Pressure--which is in 1st person* it'll definitely be something I keep my eyes out for--THANK YOU (again XD)
Usually I freeze up really bad when anything remotely close to 'grammar' pops up (like epithets), so it might take me a while to read those (again I never really LEARNED grammar. So it really makes me feel stupid when someone gives me links like that to articles about people I KNOW know more than I do) so um...^^; thank you but I probably...yeah it'll take me a while to get to those.
Meh well again I don't have a beta-er I just sent her the chapter and, well--she corrected it--but that was it. XD so I didn't hear ANYTHING on what she thought of the chapter. Which I'd like to hear because she's usually able to help me get on track with some ideas (or point things out in the chapter that need expanding on). IF she had in the email I wouldn't have minded, but she never does when I send her stuff, so ^^; *hence again, why I don't usually like people editing my stuff* if the only way they'll say something is in a review for the chapter XP
yeah unfortunately XP at least we all get along really well...
*random* My cereal's getting soggy *yes she eats cereal at 12:41AM at night*
Reply
Maybe they didn't think they could pull it off, or just thought it would take too long? But if you're writing something *for* someone, you should have more leeway instead of putting every detail of theirs down on paper (figuratively speaking).
Yes, at least you finished a fic for the challenge! But yeah, forcing pr0nz can make things go ooc fast. Why do I want to write a fic where Link reports someone for attempted assault now
Thanks for considering my suggestions! <333 Yes, the same thing applies to first-person POV. Your average POV character most likely thinks of the other characters by their name, or some variation thereof. Or by an official title, for example, if they belong to a strict organization and are rule-abiding. Link probably thinks of Lev as "Secretary Leverrier" or "the Secretary" (canon!), and if he simply thought of him as "Leverrier" it would strike me as a little off. But that's easy enough to know if you're familiar with canon, so I'll leave that to your instincts now. And I'll stop spamming you with links. XD
No no no, don't feel stupid! The word "epithets" might not be used often in this sense, but those fan-essays are about writing style, not grammar, and they're pretty straightforward. Most of what I know about grammar came through foreign language study, so I'm not really knowledgeable about English grammar. XD
Oh, I see, so your beta wasn't focusing on the things you wanted feedback on? In that case you could ask her for feedback on that, or find an additional beta. (I'm not volunteering here--I'm already editing a friend's ongoing fic, and school starts again tomorrow, so...XD) Personally, I like to give in-depth responses, so it's mostly suggested changes on things to improve, but also my reactions to specific scenes, and pointing out things I particularly like. We usually end up exchanging two or more drafts. Same for when she beta'd for me. <3 But what I hate is when I agree to edit someone's already-posted fic, which is time-consuming, and then they don't do anything with my edit, not even change typos or grammatical errors. :( *veers off into anecdotes*
In that case you can probably work it out. Just communicate what you want and try not to take anything personally, is my suggestion. That first part was learned the hard way.
*mostly lives off soba (no, really)* :P
Reply
Leave a comment