It's fine, I kinda figured XD (it's this week or last week that's usually the last week of Uni for most people *her last day was Friday, though since she didn't have a Final, it was thursday*)
For me I did a fanfic (request fic-for the ABC fic meme) where--at the end you aren't supposed to know who it is (it's either Allen or the 14th) or, well, you're suppose to choose who you want it to be. Basically meaning it can be read two different ways. Yes that might annoy people but again, I like it so I'm keeping it *shrugs* (also got really good feedback on that one. Which is interesting XD *didn't think the first half made much sense* but it was fun as heck to write~)
*makes notes for Link's POV* Um I did something (really short--another request piece--called Bonds) where Link was a character in it. Someone said he was IC for the situation, but could you take a look at it? *not comfortable writing him* but that might help, definitely *nod* thank you~ (my hope is to get his characterization down so that I can actually write a Link x Allen / Allen x Link fic for once XD *since I like reading them so much*)
Annnd I need to thank you too. Because of your advice, I went back and re-read one request that I did (Lavi x Kanda) and I actually found things I could edit (like I used 'the man' way too much--even though in the fic they were in an intimate relationship), I think it's something I do (writing 'the man' or something vague like that) when I'm in a hurry to not lose inspiration. *cough* I'm bad about doing that, then leaving it because if I look at a fic immediately after uploading it--I'll wanna change like 10 things in it XD But yeah thanks again, seriously XD *is much more conscious of it now*
Ahah yeah I mean--like I mentioned just above here *points* my biggest issue is that if I look at a fic right AFTER I read it-and am in the mood to nitpicket it...well...I generally end up changing too much of it. So I really have to watch it XP Or else I lose the original idea/etc. And sometimes I like the fact that some stuff isn't perfect--because it conveys more what I was thinking while writing it (you can tell I'm more prone for working with 'feeling' in fanfics, more than I am for actual...grammatical/structural correctness. I worry about that afterward/if it fits *nod*) so yeah, I mean I appreciate concrit obviously--cuz no one's perfect. Just...if it takes up the bulk of the comment (and I'm not in a really good mood) then it feels like the person's saying "I didn't like it" no matter--if they did (so when I give reviews I tend to point out lines I like--then do CC. If the person has too MUCH CC in it *like I notice too many things that are wrong* I'll say 'go back and re-read' and I'd rather consider something a typo than call it CC--because EVERYONE does that. I mean really ^^; we're all human. )
So yeah--you're welcome XD *likes long comments obviously* they mean a lot. *nod nod*
Okay, time to catch up on some older comment threads....
Ambiguity in a story can work very well, and in that case an ambiguous ending sounds pretty cool. But there's "purposely ambiguous" and then there's "confusing for no reason," so
Oh right, I read that one. I was going to say it might take me awhile to give feedback...but if you just want my thoughts on Link's characterization, I can sum it up in a few sentences. I thought his characterization was perfect UNTIL he suddenly decided to give Allen a handjob. Considering his character, there was no reason for him to do that--I don't care if Link is in love with Allen, like you hinted at, or if he thinks Allen is teh sexy, that's not enough of a reason for Link to suddenly do that, much less without Allen's consent. Link is too reserved, too prim and proper. I can see him acting on impulse, but not in such a drastic way, so I would recommend establishing more of a reason for him to do that, if you want to (like...IDK, Crown Clown won't let Allen go until then?). I mean, it's smut, so if you're just after the sex, then go for it, but since you asked, those are my thoughts on his characterizations in that fic. Also, that was waaaay more than "mild hintings" of Link/Allen, so you might want to change the Warnings. XD
Oh good, I'm glad that helped! :) Often it takes an outside eye to catch things.
You tell people who give you a lot of concrit to reread your fics? o.o;; That makes it sound like you're blaming your readers for disliking a fic...It's entirely possible to understand something and still dislike it. (And I'm speaking about fics and writing in general here--I like your fics.) If someone liked it but was just confused, and you know them pretty well, then maybe, but it's hard to see it as anything other than condescending.
Content is more important than spelling and grammar in a way, because so many books and stories have perfect grammar but still suck. There are some fics with some English errors or odd sentence structure (like by EFL/ESL writers) that I love because of what the story's about. On the other hand, if there are rampant spelling and grammatical errors, I'm not going to wade through them to get to the ideas, no matter how brilliant. So I think some attention should be paid to both.
Typos are unintentional errors. Concrit means giving a more broad or critical look at how the story can be improved.
mm I go for purposely ambiguous but those endings are kinda hard to do especially when people don't get you did it on purpose XD therefore it TURNS INTO confusing ambiguous to them because they don't understand it ^^; (mostly for language barrier reasons, from what I've found...)
Hah...yeah I thought so. And it's kinda bad of me but the reason I threw Link in there was because who the request was FOR (this person um, kept...bugging me. And bugging. me and BUGGING me. To fill requests. That one request. ANY request that she saw that she liked. And basically that prompt--was one she asked for on the kink meme, and I had seen it--so I was kinda upset that she was forcing me to do a prompt she already had a solid idea for since that kills my creativity XD So I really don't think I'd be able to look at that fic again for a while without feeling bitter XD But you just brought some stuff to light that I need to work on *cough* so thank you for that ^^
mhm yep I'm VERY paranoid with how many times I use certain descriptors again XD (very annoying in the RPs I'm doing but--meh can't do much about that without sounding overly picky XD)
....*laugh* no no no...*shakes head* I say at the beginning of the fic that I make it confusing on purpose. And every person so far that I've told to re-read (and actually does it) realizes that the question they asked was already answered in the text--essentially they find it themselves. this stems off of me feeling like an idiot multiple times from reading a chapter once--and not getting it, asking a question--only to come back LATER and realize it was RIGHT THERE, and I would have only caught it had I re-read. Same goes for books you would read in an English class. basically I wanted people to use their heads for this fic--to try and find the answers themselves because I do put most in there (now if they don't ask a question that can be found in the chapter--I DO help them. Try to give them hints at what I have--or refer them back to certain chapters)...I can see how that can be condesending with out be explaining my reasons behind it first ^^; my bad, my bad *cough*
Exactly.
I consider any pointing out of mispellings (of words) to be typos. because they ARE typos to me. *has a spellcheck, has her own eyes, and often times a beta-er too* and often times I write when I'm REALLY tired, so it's just a slip of the wrist XD
Now if people would say CC and use it for more than just a grammar spell check then *shrugs* They don't...use CC to explain--further plot. THAT is labeled under just a normal review for me (like if they have questions about certain aspects of it/etc...)
You can see it kinda got screwed up *the terminology* XD
*and now she's off to upload another fic with Link in it* gahhh now I'm nervous about it. I just...can't get him right for some reason XP *and is in a really crappy mood right now too, so* *sigh*
Whoops, speaking of typos, I totally forgot to finish a sentence up there. XDDD
Yes, partly it's subjective. Recently I read a very confusing book involving, among other things, multiple alternate universes and versions of the characters. Even though I was confused, I liked it a lot because of the rich writing style and mythological themes, but numerous other readers hated it because they found it pedantic and overly chaotic. (It was Vellum by Hal Duncan, if you wanted to know.)
Aww, that's too bad someone kept pushing you to write something. :/ That's no fun. You don't OWE anyone a fic--I mean, if you agreed to write something for someone you should try, but if someone's pressuring you to write something for them, it's fine to say no. I would be bitter too. Did you add Link to make it more interesting to yourself? XD Anyway, yeah, from what I've seen you have a good grasp of Link's character. Also in the fic you just posted, he seemed quite ic. (I read pretty much anything with Link in it, but forgive me if I don't always comment--often sexual or pairing fics are just Not My Thing.) But yes, you've learned that Link does NOT suddenly give Allen hand jobs. XD Also, it would be nice if more ficwriters remembered that he's a Crow, and can defend himself to some extent. *remembers a TERRIBLE, disturbing, and ooc Link-bashing fic from the very first kinkmeme* >.<
Yeah...usually the best option is to use their name or title, depending on POV or who's talking. Epithets are frowned upon. If you must have a character label, stick to one. I see waaaay too much of "the blue-haired Crow said..." or "the young, white-haired Exorcist slapped..." And "the man/woman" makes it sound too impersonal. That's what the POV character calls a newly arrived stranger. XD
Ah, it makes more sense if that's the way you like to approach stuff you don't understand. I'd be careful with that, though. And feel free to point out anything I missed, but don't insist I reread an entire fic/chapter. XD
That's true, sometimes "typos" falls under the umbrella of concrit, and different beta readers give different types of feedback. It's hard to find a beta, but one of mine only corrected typos (which is also helpful!) while another gave more in-depth critique.
I like confusing books too *nod* though it also depends on the subject but that looks interesting (another book to add to the list...if I ever get time to read for my own pleasure again XP)
Well it was for the ABC fic meme, obviously, and I told this girl about because she kept pressuring me into doing kink meme fills (she didn't understand the concept of where--I might like the PAIRING, but I don't like the prompt) and I thought I'd be nice. XP Yeah basically I did since it was originally just Crown Clown and Allen--and then I was like "To heck with it" even though I really knew Link wouldn't do that XP *the handjob* And...you...thought he was? Well that's good *sigh* I mean you could probably tell (with the most recent thing) I was pushing myself really hard to make it rated M (if I had my way with it it would've just been a conversation XP ) but I promised myself I'd fill out ONE round because--I never got to finish my Lavi x 14th one. And like--in general I'd rather write something that wasn't lemony but --since I've taken on the kink meme stuff that tends to happen more than I would like. BUt I LIKE filling out requests for people. So *shrugs* And yes--I remember Link is a Crow, which is why the recent fic was kinda painful (the...lime/handjob) because I KNOW he'd fight back, but it has to be rated M and it's like "righttt" *cough*
I felt like I overdid it in the recent thing--though I mean there're only so many titles you can USE before 'the man' has to be used I mean. It's in 3rd person. if You've just used his name and every other title redundantly just--gah x.x *hates that* though saying 'the man' constantly isn't good either. There has to be a happy medium somewhere. I'm just much more aware of it now--than I was before.
....AGAIN I left something out *would've been like "What?" if she hadn't re-read what she said* no no I DON'T make someone re-read the whole fic/chapter. That's kinda silly--I mean--really? I point out the section of the chapter that might answer their question, and if they have more stemming from that then I keep answering until they're satisfied (or I have to pull the 'sorry that's too big of a spoiler ^^;' on them) sometimes it's takes a bit of searching but I'm usually able to help 'em out pretty quickly.
I know for me my biggest thing is--the voice of the characters and the feel of it. I--would normally go to my girlfriend for deep concrit like that (she knows me--obviously--she'd be able to do that) but she hasn't read up-to-date on DGM yet so she can only help so much. But usually I don't have big issues with that--and I DO give away spoilers (on my fanfics) to the people I'm closest to/know it's relevant to *like, who actually READS the fic, for instance* so I have a few people who'd be able to go "Oh what about this/that?" it IS helpful *nod* nad gets my ideas in order, but I wouldn't call 'em beta-ers XD *since they don't actual read the chapters beforehand* I find that I've had issues with--when I SEND someone a chapter to my fic--to beta--they don't ever actually REVIEW. And that kinda irks me ^^; I mean I know they already read it but there's still the possibility of missing something--or chances are I've ADDED on something (or even thanked the person for betaing) and I want them to see that ^^;
Nur I feel a bit better now. Two stressful Rpers + me in the center = um...
Life can't stop me from reading books, even if I'm so busy it has to be while falling asleep or waiting for the bus...Yeah, Vellum was pretty interesting.
If someone's asking for a fic as a gift, they shouldn't be that picky. :/
So I guess I did have some issues with Link's characterization in that fic. XD Because that's it, I can't see him not resisting Komui's advances and leaving the room, and then he'd report Komui's ass to Leverrier or something. Also, I can't see him not knowing what masturbation is, much less reporting it to Komui (at least, not in a serious fic). But other than that, and in terms of his dialogue, he felt like Link. The greater issue was that I couldn't see Komui doing that at all, but then you wouldn't have a porn fic, huh. Basically, it's really hard to get Link to have sex except with Madarao in a serious fic. XD
The thing is, you don't have to use titles (epithets), or "the man," or anything other than pronouns and the character names. The character name is neutral and does not distract (in most cases), so the reader simply sees it and keeps reading. This is another thing to pay attention to when reading a halfway decent published novel--the use of epithets for named characters is most likely infrequent, and I'll be really surprised if "the man" is used for an identified character except in rare cases. (Or idiomatically, as in "The man was hopeless.") If you really have to, try picking one epithet, and one that makes sense from the character POV, but still, it makes for better writing not to use it so often. Basically, using epithets--especially long ones, or multiple ones, or ones like "the man" that are jarring in terms of the POV--is distracting.
In a way it's subjective, though. I get the impression a lot of fic readers/writers are so used to reading tons of epithets that they feel it has to be that way. For more info, this page has suggestions for using epithets properly (and I'd never seen that argument against using them before, which was interesting) and this one is also useful, and elaborates on what I've been trying to say about POV issues. (Sorry for all the links. I really enjoy reading articles about writing and fandom, among other things!)
You're really good at conveying character emotions and voice, I think. As for the beta reader thing, I disagree. A beta reader doesn't owe you reviews. Their job should be done by the time you post, and if you think there are still errors to be proofread, you should send the story back to them.
XD I wish I could say the same for me. But they (and video games) distract me far too much ^^; *has to be VERY careful*
Mm true. I mean...I can understand they see this perfect vision in their head--but if they can give THAT much detail (and can actually write themselves) then they should take a stab at it.
YES EXACTLY. I mean all I saw in that fic--again--was the conversation between Komui and Link. And then I realized 'ohsh--gotta add pr0n' so I really don't like it that much just for that fact but *shrugs* I did it, and I actually got it OUT on time. For that I can be somewhat proud of myself XD
*reads/makes notes* Mhm...mhm...okay then. *nod* I shall TRY that definitely. Hrm, so in first person POV it would be the same kind of thing *as in 3rd* right? *since I'm currently going through and editing Pressure--which is in 1st person* it'll definitely be something I keep my eyes out for--THANK YOU (again XD)
Usually I freeze up really bad when anything remotely close to 'grammar' pops up (like epithets), so it might take me a while to read those (again I never really LEARNED grammar. So it really makes me feel stupid when someone gives me links like that to articles about people I KNOW know more than I do) so um...^^; thank you but I probably...yeah it'll take me a while to get to those.
Meh well again I don't have a beta-er I just sent her the chapter and, well--she corrected it--but that was it. XD so I didn't hear ANYTHING on what she thought of the chapter. Which I'd like to hear because she's usually able to help me get on track with some ideas (or point things out in the chapter that need expanding on). IF she had in the email I wouldn't have minded, but she never does when I send her stuff, so ^^; *hence again, why I don't usually like people editing my stuff* if the only way they'll say something is in a review for the chapter XP
yeah unfortunately XP at least we all get along really well...
*random* My cereal's getting soggy *yes she eats cereal at 12:41AM at night*
Aww, that's too bad. Surely being distracted by books is a good thing, though! To an extent. I need to be less distracted by the internet. orz
Maybe they didn't think they could pull it off, or just thought it would take too long? But if you're writing something *for* someone, you should have more leeway instead of putting every detail of theirs down on paper (figuratively speaking).
Yes, at least you finished a fic for the challenge! But yeah, forcing pr0nz can make things go ooc fast. Why do I want to write a fic where Link reports someone for attempted assault now
Thanks for considering my suggestions! <333 Yes, the same thing applies to first-person POV. Your average POV character most likely thinks of the other characters by their name, or some variation thereof. Or by an official title, for example, if they belong to a strict organization and are rule-abiding. Link probably thinks of Lev as "Secretary Leverrier" or "the Secretary" (canon!), and if he simply thought of him as "Leverrier" it would strike me as a little off. But that's easy enough to know if you're familiar with canon, so I'll leave that to your instincts now. And I'll stop spamming you with links. XD
No no no, don't feel stupid! The word "epithets" might not be used often in this sense, but those fan-essays are about writing style, not grammar, and they're pretty straightforward. Most of what I know about grammar came through foreign language study, so I'm not really knowledgeable about English grammar. XD
Oh, I see, so your beta wasn't focusing on the things you wanted feedback on? In that case you could ask her for feedback on that, or find an additional beta. (I'm not volunteering here--I'm already editing a friend's ongoing fic, and school starts again tomorrow, so...XD) Personally, I like to give in-depth responses, so it's mostly suggested changes on things to improve, but also my reactions to specific scenes, and pointing out things I particularly like. We usually end up exchanging two or more drafts. Same for when she beta'd for me. <3 But what I hate is when I agree to edit someone's already-posted fic, which is time-consuming, and then they don't do anything with my edit, not even change typos or grammatical errors. :( *veers off into anecdotes*
In that case you can probably work it out. Just communicate what you want and try not to take anything personally, is my suggestion. That first part was learned the hard way.
For me I did a fanfic (request fic-for the ABC fic meme) where--at the end you aren't supposed to know who it is (it's either Allen or the 14th) or, well, you're suppose to choose who you want it to be. Basically meaning it can be read two different ways. Yes that might annoy people but again, I like it so I'm keeping it *shrugs* (also got really good feedback on that one. Which is interesting XD *didn't think the first half made much sense* but it was fun as heck to write~)
*makes notes for Link's POV* Um I did something (really short--another request piece--called Bonds) where Link was a character in it. Someone said he was IC for the situation, but could you take a look at it? *not comfortable writing him* but that might help, definitely *nod* thank you~ (my hope is to get his characterization down so that I can actually write a Link x Allen / Allen x Link fic for once XD *since I like reading them so much*)
Annnd I need to thank you too. Because of your advice, I went back and re-read one request that I did (Lavi x Kanda) and I actually found things I could edit (like I used 'the man' way too much--even though in the fic they were in an intimate relationship), I think it's something I do (writing 'the man' or something vague like that) when I'm in a hurry to not lose inspiration. *cough* I'm bad about doing that, then leaving it because if I look at a fic immediately after uploading it--I'll wanna change like 10 things in it XD But yeah thanks again, seriously XD *is much more conscious of it now*
Ahah yeah I mean--like I mentioned just above here *points* my biggest issue is that if I look at a fic right AFTER I read it-and am in the mood to nitpicket it...well...I generally end up changing too much of it. So I really have to watch it XP Or else I lose the original idea/etc. And sometimes I like the fact that some stuff isn't perfect--because it conveys more what I was thinking while writing it (you can tell I'm more prone for working with 'feeling' in fanfics, more than I am for actual...grammatical/structural correctness. I worry about that afterward/if it fits *nod*) so yeah, I mean I appreciate concrit obviously--cuz no one's perfect. Just...if it takes up the bulk of the comment (and I'm not in a really good mood) then it feels like the person's saying "I didn't like it" no matter--if they did (so when I give reviews I tend to point out lines I like--then do CC. If the person has too MUCH CC in it *like I notice too many things that are wrong* I'll say 'go back and re-read' and I'd rather consider something a typo than call it CC--because EVERYONE does that. I mean really ^^; we're all human. )
So yeah--you're welcome XD *likes long comments obviously* they mean a lot. *nod nod*
what kind of flowers? 8D
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Ambiguity in a story can work very well, and in that case an ambiguous ending sounds pretty cool. But there's "purposely ambiguous" and then there's "confusing for no reason," so
Oh right, I read that one. I was going to say it might take me awhile to give feedback...but if you just want my thoughts on Link's characterization, I can sum it up in a few sentences. I thought his characterization was perfect UNTIL he suddenly decided to give Allen a handjob. Considering his character, there was no reason for him to do that--I don't care if Link is in love with Allen, like you hinted at, or if he thinks Allen is teh sexy, that's not enough of a reason for Link to suddenly do that, much less without Allen's consent. Link is too reserved, too prim and proper. I can see him acting on impulse, but not in such a drastic way, so I would recommend establishing more of a reason for him to do that, if you want to (like...IDK, Crown Clown won't let Allen go until then?). I mean, it's smut, so if you're just after the sex, then go for it, but since you asked, those are my thoughts on his characterizations in that fic. Also, that was waaaay more than "mild hintings" of Link/Allen, so you might want to change the Warnings. XD
Oh good, I'm glad that helped! :) Often it takes an outside eye to catch things.
You tell people who give you a lot of concrit to reread your fics? o.o;; That makes it sound like you're blaming your readers for disliking a fic...It's entirely possible to understand something and still dislike it. (And I'm speaking about fics and writing in general here--I like your fics.) If someone liked it but was just confused, and you know them pretty well, then maybe, but it's hard to see it as anything other than condescending.
Content is more important than spelling and grammar in a way, because so many books and stories have perfect grammar but still suck. There are some fics with some English errors or odd sentence structure (like by EFL/ESL writers) that I love because of what the story's about. On the other hand, if there are rampant spelling and grammatical errors, I'm not going to wade through them to get to the ideas, no matter how brilliant. So I think some attention should be paid to both.
Typos are unintentional errors. Concrit means giving a more broad or critical look at how the story can be improved.
Daisies. XD
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mm I go for purposely ambiguous but those endings are kinda hard to do especially when people don't get you did it on purpose XD therefore it TURNS INTO confusing ambiguous to them because they don't understand it ^^; (mostly for language barrier reasons, from what I've found...)
Hah...yeah I thought so. And it's kinda bad of me but the reason I threw Link in there was because who the request was FOR (this person um, kept...bugging me. And bugging. me and BUGGING me. To fill requests. That one request. ANY request that she saw that she liked. And basically that prompt--was one she asked for on the kink meme, and I had seen it--so I was kinda upset that she was forcing me to do a prompt she already had a solid idea for since that kills my creativity XD So I really don't think I'd be able to look at that fic again for a while without feeling bitter XD But you just brought some stuff to light that I need to work on *cough* so thank you for that ^^
mhm yep I'm VERY paranoid with how many times I use certain descriptors again XD (very annoying in the RPs I'm doing but--meh can't do much about that without sounding overly picky XD)
....*laugh* no no no...*shakes head* I say at the beginning of the fic that I make it confusing on purpose. And every person so far that I've told to re-read (and actually does it) realizes that the question they asked was already answered in the text--essentially they find it themselves. this stems off of me feeling like an idiot multiple times from reading a chapter once--and not getting it, asking a question--only to come back LATER and realize it was RIGHT THERE, and I would have only caught it had I re-read. Same goes for books you would read in an English class. basically I wanted people to use their heads for this fic--to try and find the answers themselves because I do put most in there (now if they don't ask a question that can be found in the chapter--I DO help them. Try to give them hints at what I have--or refer them back to certain chapters)...I can see how that can be condesending with out be explaining my reasons behind it first ^^; my bad, my bad *cough*
Exactly.
I consider any pointing out of mispellings (of words) to be typos. because they ARE typos to me. *has a spellcheck, has her own eyes, and often times a beta-er too* and often times I write when I'm REALLY tired, so it's just a slip of the wrist XD
Now if people would say CC and use it for more than just a grammar spell check then *shrugs* They don't...use CC to explain--further plot. THAT is labeled under just a normal review for me (like if they have questions about certain aspects of it/etc...)
You can see it kinda got screwed up *the terminology* XD
*and now she's off to upload another fic with Link in it* gahhh now I'm nervous about it. I just...can't get him right for some reason XP *and is in a really crappy mood right now too, so* *sigh*
DAFFODILS
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Yes, partly it's subjective. Recently I read a very confusing book involving, among other things, multiple alternate universes and versions of the characters. Even though I was confused, I liked it a lot because of the rich writing style and mythological themes, but numerous other readers hated it because they found it pedantic and overly chaotic. (It was Vellum by Hal Duncan, if you wanted to know.)
Aww, that's too bad someone kept pushing you to write something. :/ That's no fun. You don't OWE anyone a fic--I mean, if you agreed to write something for someone you should try, but if someone's pressuring you to write something for them, it's fine to say no. I would be bitter too. Did you add Link to make it more interesting to yourself? XD Anyway, yeah, from what I've seen you have a good grasp of Link's character. Also in the fic you just posted, he seemed quite ic. (I read pretty much anything with Link in it, but forgive me if I don't always comment--often sexual or pairing fics are just Not My Thing.) But yes, you've learned that Link does NOT suddenly give Allen hand jobs. XD Also, it would be nice if more ficwriters remembered that he's a Crow, and can defend himself to some extent. *remembers a TERRIBLE, disturbing, and ooc Link-bashing fic from the very first kinkmeme* >.<
Yeah...usually the best option is to use their name or title, depending on POV or who's talking. Epithets are frowned upon. If you must have a character label, stick to one. I see waaaay too much of "the blue-haired Crow said..." or "the young, white-haired Exorcist slapped..." And "the man/woman" makes it sound too impersonal. That's what the POV character calls a newly arrived stranger. XD
Ah, it makes more sense if that's the way you like to approach stuff you don't understand. I'd be careful with that, though. And feel free to point out anything I missed, but don't insist I reread an entire fic/chapter. XD
That's true, sometimes "typos" falls under the umbrella of concrit, and different beta readers give different types of feedback. It's hard to find a beta, but one of mine only corrected typos (which is also helpful!) while another gave more in-depth critique.
Aww, I'm surry you're not feeling well. :/
Both?
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I like confusing books too *nod* though it also depends on the subject but that looks interesting (another book to add to the list...if I ever get time to read for my own pleasure again XP)
Well it was for the ABC fic meme, obviously, and I told this girl about because she kept pressuring me into doing kink meme fills (she didn't understand the concept of where--I might like the PAIRING, but I don't like the prompt) and I thought I'd be nice. XP Yeah basically I did since it was originally just Crown Clown and Allen--and then I was like "To heck with it" even though I really knew Link wouldn't do that XP *the handjob* And...you...thought he was? Well that's good *sigh* I mean you could probably tell (with the most recent thing) I was pushing myself really hard to make it rated M (if I had my way with it it would've just been a conversation XP ) but I promised myself I'd fill out ONE round because--I never got to finish my Lavi x 14th one. And like--in general I'd rather write something that wasn't lemony but --since I've taken on the kink meme stuff that tends to happen more than I would like. BUt I LIKE filling out requests for people. So *shrugs* And yes--I remember Link is a Crow, which is why the recent fic was kinda painful (the...lime/handjob) because I KNOW he'd fight back, but it has to be rated M and it's like "righttt" *cough*
I felt like I overdid it in the recent thing--though I mean there're only so many titles you can USE before 'the man' has to be used I mean. It's in 3rd person. if You've just used his name and every other title redundantly just--gah x.x *hates that* though saying 'the man' constantly isn't good either. There has to be a happy medium somewhere. I'm just much more aware of it now--than I was before.
....AGAIN I left something out *would've been like "What?" if she hadn't re-read what she said* no no I DON'T make someone re-read the whole fic/chapter. That's kinda silly--I mean--really? I point out the section of the chapter that might answer their question, and if they have more stemming from that then I keep answering until they're satisfied (or I have to pull the 'sorry that's too big of a spoiler ^^;' on them) sometimes it's takes a bit of searching but I'm usually able to help 'em out pretty quickly.
I know for me my biggest thing is--the voice of the characters and the feel of it. I--would normally go to my girlfriend for deep concrit like that (she knows me--obviously--she'd be able to do that) but she hasn't read up-to-date on DGM yet so she can only help so much. But usually I don't have big issues with that--and I DO give away spoilers (on my fanfics) to the people I'm closest to/know it's relevant to *like, who actually READS the fic, for instance* so I have a few people who'd be able to go "Oh what about this/that?" it IS helpful *nod* nad gets my ideas in order, but I wouldn't call 'em beta-ers XD *since they don't actual read the chapters beforehand* I find that I've had issues with--when I SEND someone a chapter to my fic--to beta--they don't ever actually REVIEW. And that kinda irks me ^^; I mean I know they already read it but there's still the possibility of missing something--or chances are I've ADDED on something (or even thanked the person for betaing) and I want them to see that ^^;
Nur I feel a bit better now. Two stressful Rpers + me in the center = um...
SURE *hands you both*
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If someone's asking for a fic as a gift, they shouldn't be that picky. :/
So I guess I did have some issues with Link's characterization in that fic. XD Because that's it, I can't see him not resisting Komui's advances and leaving the room, and then he'd report Komui's ass to Leverrier or something. Also, I can't see him not knowing what masturbation is, much less reporting it to Komui (at least, not in a serious fic). But other than that, and in terms of his dialogue, he felt like Link. The greater issue was that I couldn't see Komui doing that at all, but then you wouldn't have a porn fic, huh. Basically, it's really hard to get Link to have sex except with Madarao in a serious fic. XD
The thing is, you don't have to use titles (epithets), or "the man," or anything other than pronouns and the character names. The character name is neutral and does not distract (in most cases), so the reader simply sees it and keeps reading. This is another thing to pay attention to when reading a halfway decent published novel--the use of epithets for named characters is most likely infrequent, and I'll be really surprised if "the man" is used for an identified character except in rare cases. (Or idiomatically, as in "The man was hopeless.") If you really have to, try picking one epithet, and one that makes sense from the character POV, but still, it makes for better writing not to use it so often. Basically, using epithets--especially long ones, or multiple ones, or ones like "the man" that are jarring in terms of the POV--is distracting.
In a way it's subjective, though. I get the impression a lot of fic readers/writers are so used to reading tons of epithets that they feel it has to be that way. For more info, this page has suggestions for using epithets properly (and I'd never seen that argument against using them before, which was interesting) and this one is also useful, and elaborates on what I've been trying to say about POV issues. (Sorry for all the links. I really enjoy reading articles about writing and fandom, among other things!)
You're really good at conveying character emotions and voice, I think. As for the beta reader thing, I disagree. A beta reader doesn't owe you reviews. Their job should be done by the time you post, and if you think there are still errors to be proofread, you should send the story back to them.
Rping = inevitable drama, unfortunately. >.>
*flings petals*
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Mm true. I mean...I can understand they see this perfect vision in their head--but if they can give THAT much detail (and can actually write themselves) then they should take a stab at it.
YES EXACTLY. I mean all I saw in that fic--again--was the conversation between Komui and Link. And then I realized 'ohsh--gotta add pr0n' so I really don't like it that much just for that fact but *shrugs* I did it, and I actually got it OUT on time. For that I can be somewhat proud of myself XD
*reads/makes notes* Mhm...mhm...okay then. *nod* I shall TRY that definitely. Hrm, so in first person POV it would be the same kind of thing *as in 3rd* right? *since I'm currently going through and editing Pressure--which is in 1st person* it'll definitely be something I keep my eyes out for--THANK YOU (again XD)
Usually I freeze up really bad when anything remotely close to 'grammar' pops up (like epithets), so it might take me a while to read those (again I never really LEARNED grammar. So it really makes me feel stupid when someone gives me links like that to articles about people I KNOW know more than I do) so um...^^; thank you but I probably...yeah it'll take me a while to get to those.
Meh well again I don't have a beta-er I just sent her the chapter and, well--she corrected it--but that was it. XD so I didn't hear ANYTHING on what she thought of the chapter. Which I'd like to hear because she's usually able to help me get on track with some ideas (or point things out in the chapter that need expanding on). IF she had in the email I wouldn't have minded, but she never does when I send her stuff, so ^^; *hence again, why I don't usually like people editing my stuff* if the only way they'll say something is in a review for the chapter XP
yeah unfortunately XP at least we all get along really well...
*random* My cereal's getting soggy *yes she eats cereal at 12:41AM at night*
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Maybe they didn't think they could pull it off, or just thought it would take too long? But if you're writing something *for* someone, you should have more leeway instead of putting every detail of theirs down on paper (figuratively speaking).
Yes, at least you finished a fic for the challenge! But yeah, forcing pr0nz can make things go ooc fast. Why do I want to write a fic where Link reports someone for attempted assault now
Thanks for considering my suggestions! <333 Yes, the same thing applies to first-person POV. Your average POV character most likely thinks of the other characters by their name, or some variation thereof. Or by an official title, for example, if they belong to a strict organization and are rule-abiding. Link probably thinks of Lev as "Secretary Leverrier" or "the Secretary" (canon!), and if he simply thought of him as "Leverrier" it would strike me as a little off. But that's easy enough to know if you're familiar with canon, so I'll leave that to your instincts now. And I'll stop spamming you with links. XD
No no no, don't feel stupid! The word "epithets" might not be used often in this sense, but those fan-essays are about writing style, not grammar, and they're pretty straightforward. Most of what I know about grammar came through foreign language study, so I'm not really knowledgeable about English grammar. XD
Oh, I see, so your beta wasn't focusing on the things you wanted feedback on? In that case you could ask her for feedback on that, or find an additional beta. (I'm not volunteering here--I'm already editing a friend's ongoing fic, and school starts again tomorrow, so...XD) Personally, I like to give in-depth responses, so it's mostly suggested changes on things to improve, but also my reactions to specific scenes, and pointing out things I particularly like. We usually end up exchanging two or more drafts. Same for when she beta'd for me. <3 But what I hate is when I agree to edit someone's already-posted fic, which is time-consuming, and then they don't do anything with my edit, not even change typos or grammatical errors. :( *veers off into anecdotes*
In that case you can probably work it out. Just communicate what you want and try not to take anything personally, is my suggestion. That first part was learned the hard way.
*mostly lives off soba (no, really)* :P
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