So, If She Weighs Less Than a Duck...

[happiestsadist]

As I was trying to fall asleep, I started wondering about witch hunts. Okay, specifically the Salem with trials of 1692-1693. Some people have claimed that there was in fact an outbreak of ergotism behind it, explaining the claims of the "bewitched" as a result of the hallucinations and physical sensations that ergot (so related to LSD) produce

Comments

[poto_heart]

I agree completely. The ergotism theory has always seemed reaching for me, and in completely the wrong direction. TBH I live almost in the Salem area (it WOULD be a 15-minute drive if not for the terrible traffic...) and so it's a frequent topic of discussion...I've heard the theory thrown out there but nobody that I know seriously considers it.

What I think is really important when looking at incidents like this is considering the social pressures that led to the situation. Why were the accusations made, and why did the town react the way they did? I don't think the form of the accusations is the important part...I don't buy into the 'religious fervor' type of theories either. To draw a modern parallel, (some) fundies accuse queer people of trying to 'recruit'/brainwash children, which has no basis in fact at all...I am more interested in why they are making things up to accuse me of than what specifically they are accusing me of, once it becomes obvious they are just making things up.

[ms_daisy_cutter]

I don't buy into the 'religious fervor' type of theories either.

Why not? Religious fanatics in groups are extremely dangerous.

[poto_heart]

Yes, they can be...but so can other groups. I think blaming it on the religion itself is short-sighted. I think the main reason we see religion doing as much harm as it does is because it has simply been the most prominent social ideology to rally around in our history; I personally believe most of what could be seen as religious fanaticism would just as easily apply to any other kind of fanaticism, so it's more important to look at why people become fanatics at all.

[happiestsadist]

You have a lot of a point, however, religion does specifically involve an abandonment of critical thought and, in a lot of ways, the value of humanity as humanity, so it's perhaps particularly susceptible.

[poto_heart]

I agree that it probably is. And with how much it permeates our culture today, it's hard to find a way to really separate out other social factors; since for example a lot of people in extreme political groups tend to be religious.

[ms_daisy_cutter]

I'll worry about other groups when they get the same social leeway that religion does - i.e., that they make unproven claims, but questioning them is "rude," because, yanno, it's challenging people's pweshus buh-weeeeeeeeefs.

[arthur_sc_king]

IMHFO, religion should neither involve an abandonment of critical thought nor the value of humanity as humanity.

But then, I know I'm definitely in the minority on that issue. In my own church, for sure, if not in Christianity in general.

[happiestsadist]

I dunno, man. Doesn't faith in and of itself require a suspension of critical thought? And really, any religion that has a hell is fundamentally anti-humanity.

I'll never fully understand how you can remain in the church you're in. Forgive my bluntness.

[arthur_sc_king]

NP. IMHO, faith requires some suspension of critical thought, but I don't think you have to check your brain completely at the door, actually. I'm not "up" enough on the concept to express my thoughts very well, but I think it's very possible to have faith in something supernal while still retaining reason and critical thought.

As for the concept of hell, here's something interesting that not a lot of people know (hell, not a lot of Mormons know). You know that book that's gotten a lot of press by some minister who suggests that a loving God wouldn't really send a bunch of his children to eternal fire?

Well, in Mormon theology, there isn't a "standard-issue" fire-and-brimstone hell. First, when you die, your spirit goes somewhere, which for lack of a better name we call "the spirit world". Then, eventually, everybody is resurrected. Almost everybody goes to one of three "degrees of glory", the idea being that even the lowest of those three still has glory "which surpasses all understandingI see that "lowest" place as something

[happiestsadist]

Huh, I did not know that about the Mormon afterlife. I only really knew about the planets, and the harems of baby-making space wives.

I'll be honest, I hate the LDS church to an extent that's up there with my hatred the RCC for its commitment to fucking over women, queers, trans people and hell, POC. You're a good person, and don't seem to feel that kind of animosity toward the aforementioned groups or me. So I remain baffled, not that I'm demanding an answer. I'm sure I could be clearer or gentler, but too many miniature and delicious homemade burritos turn eloquence and thinking into a pleasant elastic-waisted-pants kind of haze.

[arthur_sc_king]

Where you're coming from is totally cool. And yes, the Prop 8 thing specifically and the way the church and its members and its culture often treat "others" often pisses me right off, too. My feelings on this are largely informed by the facts that (a) I have many gay cousins on my mom's side, even though I was never close to any of them (occasional summer vacation "hi how are you" visits), (b) at least one (or two? can't remember) died from AIDS, (c) one was gay-bashed to death (around 10-15 years ago, somewhere in NS), (d) another was a prominent figure in the same-sex-marriage debates in Canada (google "Pamela Dickey Young" if you're bored) and is obviously someone to be admired, not hated, and (e) dammit, they're children of God too, and God must have made them that way for some great reason, not just giving small-minded idiots targets for hate.

And much envy on the homemade burrito front. I'm late at work and I'm starving.

[happiestsadist]

I've heard of Pamela Dickey Young! And now you got Gaga's "Born This Way" in my head. Which isn't such a bad thing.

They are very good burritos. From-scratch refried black beans, guacamole and tortillas because I am awesome at cooking, and some sauteed mushrooms, onions and peppers for texture.If you ever find yourself up this way, I do love cooking for guests. :D

[happiestsadist]

I think religious fervour is definitely a contributing factor. The fundies in Uganda hunting down queers seem to agree.

[poto_heart]

I'm just not really convinced that it's actual religion so much as the social and political groups that evolve around it. That may be a very American-centric view though, since a lot of the people here that use fundamentalist screed to grab power, don't actually seem to believe what they're saying; I think if they didn't have the religion to go to, they would find something else to rally around.