Children born of fairy stock (The Cruel Prince by Holly Black sync read post)
ikel89 and hopefully cyanshadow, and anyone else who wishes to join us, are embarking on a sync read of Holly Black's The Cruel Prince . Wicked fairies and larcenous teens (probably) and complicated family relationships (almost certainly) galore!
Come join, or if you've already read it, comment along as we progress through the book.
Come join, or if you've already read it, comment along as we progress through the book.
- This was just so... narratively unsatisfying. Like, I feel like Holly Black actually set out to write a book the point of which is "as many plot twists as possible because fickle fairies and also humans can lie", and then just had the characters make the least expected choices, regardless of whether those choices made any sense, and as a result, I may have whiplash, but having finished the book, I don't feel like there was a single satisfying arc in it, or even the hint of one.
- The confrontation between Jude and Madoc, which actually could've used some subversion or plot twists, was just... I mean, you can't seriously play the two poisoned wine glasses trick in the post-Princess Bride era, OK?
- Crowning Cardan as a placeholder king seems seems like it would be considerably harder to control/back out of than just having Madoc -- who at least loves Oak and presumably might listen to Oriana or the daughters he adores -- as regent. Yes, Jude can control him for a little less than a year and a day, but what about the other 6-9 years? And Jude even acknowledges that she realized that Cardan could decide he liked ruling (or, more likely, he'd try to hold onto the throne out of spite).
- I was just going bzuh? about all this until the very last scene, where Cardan offers Jude the throne, and then I started wondering if this wasn't actually the point. Is this meant to be some kind of villain origin story told from the villain's POV? That the reason Jude's actions make zero fucking sense is that she IS after power for herself -- being better than the faeries, ruling them through a puppet king -- and just lying to herself about her motivations? That would not make this book more satisfying to me, but at least it would be interesting...
- There is NO resolution of anything between Jude and Taryn, which makes me wonder why she even had a twin sister. And what was the point of that utter stupidity where Ghost tossed the crown to the wrong sister? Like, what was actually the point of that?
- The whole crowning scene is such a farce, with the arrows aimed to miss and the mistaken twins and the swap in expectations about who crowns whom -- it's like a Saturday morning cartoon, and also ended up having similar emotional weight for me.
- Why not kill Balekin? Are they keeping him in reserve in case Cardan refuses to crown Oak? Or just so there's a plot hook for the sequel. It makes very little sense.
- Jude/Cardan continues to be unusually fucked up in ever new dimensions -- "I am horrified by my own impulse to bend my knee to him, my own desire to let him touch my head with a ringed hand."
- Random quibble: How would faerie-raised Jude even pick up the phrase "to throw a spanner in the works"? Faerie does not seem big on industry, or spanners! And how many 7-year-olds know the phrase?
- Best thing about this last set of chapters/epilogue: the "my prince"/"my door" exchange between Cardan and the door of the palace. Which is a little sad if you think about it, when a door's dialogue makes more sense than the protagonist's.
- And, OK, I do find it amusing that Jude, as a mortal, can use sarcasm in a way faeries can't. That's actually a genuinely cute touch. ("Oh, yes, let me tell you my whole plan. You've goaded me right into it.")
But overall... whut. Not all Holly Black books are instant hits for me, but I was not expecting to be actively disappointed by one.
Still a gorgeous cover, though...
Reply
ARBITRARYYYY. everything is very arbitrary and there for some aesthetic reason, like keeping prince evil cardamom on the throne bc we just can't him go offscreen for the sequels (or off the court and discovering Accessorize and Starbucks). So even while there were technically many plot twists, nothing really surprised me beyond realization that Dain's death didn't deprive her of geas; the events were strung together for some wobbly ~narrative aesthetic~ instead of actual narrative: twins for triangle and ~divergence~, dead mothers all over the place, blood-colored courtiers chopping off heads, reverse crowning for ensured dubcon etc etc.
Oh btw, I thought "whelp I didn't realize Valentin, who always wanted to murder you and has a track record for gratuitous violence, was capable of murder" as a particularly stupid way to woobiefy Prince Cardin.
- The confrontation between Jude and Madoc, which actually could've used some subversion or plot twists, was just... I mean, you can't seriously play the two poisoned wine glasses trick in the post-Princess Bride era, OK?
:'DDD good point. But that wasn't even why I disliked that scene in particular. I felt this confrontation was set up for the single line of "i am what you brought me up to be, father" or however it was worded, but at the same time they didn't do anything more than punch each other around :') Dangerous triatorous allies, or more impressive power plays, or literally anything besides poisoned punching would have been more significant for a relationship of warmonging strategists. (I say the latter with very loud air quotes, FYI). I had no illusion that Murdock I mean Maddog would be allowed to remain as regent, but he at least could have tried harder to break his daughter with words/politics, and not "fite me".
1 year was clearly there to last through dubcon co-ruling only. ARBITRARY.
Origin story is a good theory, and would increase the merit of writing this book, but as you say, it doesn't make me enjoy it more, because the general MEH about everyone's behavior is not fixed by downwards spiral of the moral compass. Evil or tormented, they all act stupid anyway.
LOL at saturday morning cartoon! XD not untrue.
Also, I cannot figure out Oak's mental age: he acts like a nonsensical toddler throughout, but then "seven years would suffice" and he speaks full, loaded sentences in the closing scene? Idek. I have no patience for faerie psychology of kids, if that's the explanation.
Reply
Why not kill Balekin? Are they keeping him in reserve in case Cardan refuses to crown Oak?
No reason to keep him alive,unless they are now suddenly allergic to regicide. But I predict it's for Balekin seducing his abused brother into helping him out in the sequels by bombastically saying he tried to save him once (in numbers: 1 time) with his own hot bod.
- Jude/Cardan continues to be unusually fucked up in ever new dimensions -- "I am horrified by my own impulse to bend my knee to him, my own desire to let him touch my head with a ringed hand."
They seriously need that trip to the human world, and access to literature & supplies on dubcon. Learn safewords, idk, join a local клуб по интересам etc.
(Sarcasm aside, I don't mind their power balance being fucked up. I do, however, dislike the instant woobiefication of Cardigan, even though he is more likable when weak. Spinning Silver did the depraved princes so much better, and the father-daughter thing too, and a number of other things *long sigh*)
Random quibble: How would faerie-raised Jude even pick up the phrase "to throw a spanner in the works"?
The way they talk is generally terribly uneven. The only good thing is actually no one using some butchered high language, but there is definitely no rhyme or reason to what sentences Jude says as an american teenager, and what as a foster kid of immortal drama queens that by all means should not talk the same way.
("Oh, yes, let me tell you my whole plan. You've goaded me right into it.")
See your point, but my preferred instance was her giving Carandash a speech on how his kiss made her want to only do nice things for him XD
the edition is BEYOND WORDS GORGEOUS though. it is somehow just adding to my disappointment bc I WANTED TO LIKE IT SO MUCH MORE FOR ITTTT!!!
Reply
There were a number of "plot twists" that surprised me in a "...but that's dumb" sort of way (or else, "...but what's the point then?", in the case of Locke) -- I think probably because I was reading almost until the end while giving the book the greatest possible benefit of the doubt. The only one that genuinely surprised me and that I thought was worth it was Sophie the glamoured mortal girl killing herself, because that one actually had some thematic resonance. (Did you see that one coming, btw?)
Oh btw, I thought "whelp I didn't realize Valentin, who always wanted to murder you and has a track record for gratuitous violence, was capable of murder" as a particularly stupid way to woobiefy Prince Cardin.
LOL! Yeah, although I was also surprised that Valerian was dumb enough to piss off a redcap / general who's got an in with the next king by going to this extent. I mean, not super surprised, because everyone acts dumb, but there's slights one can get away with, and then there's sneaking into the domain of a bloodthirsty badass who literally derives his powers from doing laundry with the blood of slain enemies to murder his beloved daughter.
I felt this confrontation was set up for the single line of "i am what you brought me up to be, father" or however it was worded, but at the same time they didn't do anything more than punch each other around :')
Yeah. In fairness, "punch stuff" seems to legitimately be both Madoc's and Jude's MO (I never stopped finding the idea of her being good at spycraft kind of laughable, but on the other hand, it's not like anyone else is particularly subtle... and Dain did not choose her for her cleverness, just for her ability to lie. But it was an awfully reductive and boring "climax" to the one relationship I actually found interesting and somewhat developed in this book, so it pissed me off more than almost anything else.
(I totally LOL'd at "literally anything besides poisoned punching" though XD)
1 year was clearly there to last through dubcon co-ruling only. ARBITRARY.
I mean, "a year and a day" is highly traditional and all! And it's clear what it's there for from a kink perspective. But I still can't wrap my head around why Jude would've thought it was a good idea unless she doesn't actually care about Oak coming into his own as a ruler, plans to Cleverly Poison Cardan before the year runs out, and puppet-king regent for her little brother instead...
Also, I cannot figure out Oak's mental age: he acts like a nonsensical toddler throughout, but then "seven years would suffice" and he speaks full, loaded sentences in the closing scene?
I think this is going with the idea that faeries mature at the same rate as humans (or only a little bit slower? IDK...) He's 7 at the end of the book, right? Stuff they're buying him suggests a kid around kindergarten age to me, which would be consistent with 4-year-old Oak not getting why making Jude hit herself was wrong -- maybe halve his age? But then, yeah... Jude starts out thinking of giving him 10 years, which would make him 17 at the time he takes the throne, but then she scales back to 7 years... Which, even if he matured at the mortal rate, a 14-year-old king sounds like NOT a recipe for good things. Possibly further evidence Jude is only after power for herself... or that this book makes no sense, alas.
saying he tried to save him once (in numbers: 1 time) with his own hot bod.
*snerk* True, that was a thing that happened XP
Learn safewords, idk, join a local клуб по интересам etc.
LOL, yes, these youngsters clearly need some guidance XP
Reply
I felt like a lot of the instant-ness was Jude's obliviousness / punktik about him early on, BUT I would have still appreciated some balance because Cardan is still not a great person, even if everyone else around him is even worse. I think this is one place where the POV is really limiting, because Jude is clearly unable to be objective about him in any way, and we don't see him through anyone else's eyes.
Spinning Silver did the depraved princes so much better, and the father-daughter thing too, and a number of other things
Oooh! I was really impressed by the depraved prince in Uprooted, so I'm definitely eager to see another take on that from Novik. And father-daughter things. And it seems like I should move on to some fantasy, because Murderbot 3 is not bringing me any particular joy, and I think that might mean I'm burnt out on sci-fi after Hugo homework.
but there is definitely no rhyme or reason to what sentences Jude says as an american teenager, and what as a foster kid of immortal drama queens that by all means should not talk the same way.
As I mentioned somewhere in this, I liked the interplay between those two modes when it was well done, but agree that it wasn't terribly consistent, alas.
but my preferred instance was her giving Carandash a speech on how his kiss made her want to only do nice things for him XD
Yes, that was a good one too! :D
the edition is BEYOND WORDS GORGEOUS though. it is somehow just adding to my disappointment
I could see that, yeah... toss the book, frame the jacket? XP
Reply
I actually didn't have time to ponder this one, I was too busy going wtf at her putting her SLEUTHING and STEALTHING ABOUT in jeopardy by just stopping mid-mission to save a character that didn't even have a name for 3/4 of the book. Not like it was stupider than the rest of things she does on impulse, but I honestly missed the part where I would be surprised or not by eyerolling at this plot tangent. In retrospect, some substitution and consent leitmotifs were sure echoed, but like. Does it even matter in the context of teh rest of the book.
who literally derives his powers from doing laundry with the blood of slain enemies to murder his beloved daughter
Madoc's laundry list :DDD Also, did he really derive power from this dyejob or he did it for aesthetics as well?
Murderbot 3 isn't really as good at Murderbot2, so I understand the sentiment even outside the Hugo burrnout. Read the Silver and liveblog me everythiiiiing <3 <3 <3
I never stopped finding the idea of her being good at spycraft kind of laughable
I kept thinking also that this book is sorely missing at least one self-aware/genre-savvy character who could make things slightly bearable by calling them out and/or casting shade but nope. Dead serious and committed to faerie moodboard nonsense.
Nods along to your maths -- none of it looks too convincing, 14 yo or 7yo or otherwise, plus the dialogue is haphazard. Seriously, he doesn't sound 4 in the last scene!!
BUT I would have still appreciated some balance because Cardan is still not a great person, even if everyone else around him is even worse. I think this is one place where the POV is really limiting, because Jude is clearly unable to be objective about him in any way, and we don't see him through anyone else's eyes.
See, this is where the genre savvy or mouthy thrid person chara would have come in handy! Best outside description of Cardamom we get is "foppish" and like, okay, thanks for not going off in a spiel about him being OH SO CRUEL i guess, but imagine if someone was like, "don't give him more attention than needed, faeries in puberty are very hormonal and prone to white mushroom acne, he needs to occupy himself until it passes" or some such.
Reply
That was definitely my initial reaction. And I do completely agree that it doesn't matter in the context of the book -- which I feel is kind of the book's problem and not that interlude's. But just as a twist, it was the only twist I actually liked, because I felt like it did jive with a theme the book was setting up in the beginning... and kind of lost track of around the 75% mark.
Also, did he really derive power from this dyejob or he did it for aesthetics as well?
In the beginning it said he needed the blood-laundry like mermaids need the salt spray -- so it sounds like he derives nourishment from it if not powers. But something more fundamental than aesthetics anyway.
Read the Silver and liveblog me everythiiiiing <3 <3 <3
I will for sure liveblog it when I do read it!
I kept thinking also that this book is sorely missing at least one self-aware/genre-savvy character
That's true, actually... and I think a departure for Holly Black -- an unfortunate one.
faeries in puberty are very hormonal and prone to white mushroom acne
*snerk*
Reply
Reply
Yeah, I think I forgot to remark on that, but thought it was a nice touch.
I do agree that it dissolves into the backdrop of questionable/pointless narrative choices, and I doubt I would've remembered about it either if I wasn't doing a liveblog of the book. As it was, when I reread the comments I'd been making, I recollected it with a bit of surprise.
Reply
Leave a comment