Reading roundup, Hugo homework, Worldcon plans
55. Ursula Vernon, Whiskerella (Hamster Princess 5) -- the last of the Hamster Princess books currently out, so there will be no more sparkly hamsters for me until October (which is fine, as I'm ready to take a break; binging these is probably not what one should do, anyway). This one was also pretty cute, with the Cinderella story subversion ( spoilers! )
To wit: I tip my hat to you, and how impressively thorough you were. :) My final accounting was far more modest:
Novel: 4 (I continued to fail to make myself read Collapsing Empire and Six Wakes, though I have some hopes that I may finally get around to them now that deadline pressure is no longer giving me intense desires to do anything but read XD)
Novella: 5 (everything except River of Teeth)
Novelette: 1 (didn't read anything other than Extracurricular Activities, which I'd already read)
Short Story: 5 (my rushed deadline-day reading involved catching up on all the short stories except The Martian Obelisk :D)
Series: 4 (Went ahead and ranked everything I'd read at least one book of -- everything except Divine Cities and InCryptid)
Best Related Work: 1 (the Le Guin essays)
Dramatic Presentation (Long Form): 4 (everything except Blade Runner and Get Out)
Campbell: 4 (didn't get around to reading anything by Sarah Kuhn or Jeannette Ng)
... On the other hand, even if I didn't finish out the Novel category as I had intended, I think I've overall consumed more for the Hugos this year than I usually do, between the extra novels I read for the Campbells and reading most of the novellas. So, success? :D
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Collapsing Empire is actually pretty fun, and I say that as a person who bounced off a couple of earlier Scalzi titles. Well, OK, half of it is fun and half of it is, like, inoffensive, but I definitely feel it was worth a read. And Six Wakes you should read just so you can kvetch with K and me about how it squandered the promise of its premise and could've been done better. Or, you know, you might actually enjoy it as is -- not trying to prejudice you! XP
Re: novella and short story:
I also wanna chat "And then There Were (N-One)" and "Wind Will Rove" with you! Especially "Wind Will Rove" as it compares with An Unkindness of Ghosts -- obviously very different stories in scope and mood and interests, but I read them very close together, and kept mentally contrasting them. And I know "N-one" did not unseat Murderbot for you, no was I expecting it to, but there's so many interesting things it's doing that I've never seen a sci-fi story do before, I really want to talk to someone about it!
(It is my considered opinion that you are missing NOTHING by skipping "The Martian Obelisk" (though, IDK, you may have more tolerance for it than I did, because it's a very "hope sci-fi" kind of thing -- which is fine! I just didn't think it had anything else going for it) or River of Teeth. :P)
Divine Cities I'll talk about later, but I'm finding it a very interesting series, with a different take on the sci-fi of conquest than I think I've seen anywhere else. I suspect you would find it interesting.
... On the other hand, even if I didn't finish out the Novel category as I had intended, I think I've overall consumed more for the Hugos this year than I usually do,
Well, recall I didn't actually FINISH some of those books I'm checking off -- notably KSR and the two Campbells you skipped. I just read enough to make a confident call on where I'd slot them :)
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🤣
Given that yours and K's are probably the most "negative" reviews of it that I've seen, I'm fairly certain I'll enjoy it once I get around to it. But I've been very aggressively not in the mood for reading for most of the last couple months, frustratingly, so every time I look at it I turn my nose up it and go scroll Tumblr or something instead. XD
And lol, "neat premise, squandered execution" has been a very consistent reaction to Six Wakes among friends so I suspect I will also feel the same. :D But yes, I'm still fully intending to read it for kvetching purposes. :D
I haven't read "Wind Will Rove" yet, alas -- maybe this weekend :D since I definitely liked Sarah Pinsker's writing well enough to be interested in trying more of it.
Definitely happy to chat N-One any time though! :D I thought it was very clever and interesting in both its central conceit and what it did with it, and while it wasn't "my" story to quite the extent Murderbot was, I'd still be almost as thrilled if it wins as if Murderbot sweeps the awards this season. :)
And lol yeah, when I dug up your short story summary post, I admit to being somewhat self-congratulatory about having managed to dodge the story you liked least. ;) (I've been meaning to go back and leave a longer comment, but IIRC our reactions were roughly aligned -- I liked "Fandom" better, obviously, and it sounds like "Carnival" worked better for you, but I also deeply respected without loving "Authentic Indian Experience" and found "Mostly Steady Hand" to be Not My Thing. (I read through to the end, which I don't recall if you did? But that just reinforced my initial impression, tbh. :P)
I may yet read River of Teeth :D since I know a handful of people who seem to like it surprisingly well, and I get the impression that I'm generally more tolerant of earnest anachronistic Tumblr-isms than you are. But ... let's say it's not high on my list of things to read, until/unless I suddenly decide I'm in the mood for bisexual hippos. :'D
notably KSR
If you can make it to the halfway point, the desire to chew your your leg off (🤣) diminishes significantly, but that's ... still not a recommendation. :D
... I also really want to sit down and read Skinful of Shadows, In Other Lands, and maybe Summer in Orcus sometime soon, too -- I was sorry not to have had the chance to read them in time to vote for the YA Hugo, but since I expect to enjoy them quite a bit, I also really didn't want to push myself and risk ruining the experience. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So it goes.
And I'm looking forward to hearing more about Divine Cities! It seems to be getting a reasonable amount of positive buzz, but the things I've heard (... which have all conveniently slipped my mind at the moment) have left me on the fence about whether it sounds like something I'd actually enjoy or not.
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And lol, "neat premise, squandered execution" has been a very consistent reaction to Six Wakes among friends so I suspect I will also feel the same.
I wonder how it got on the ballot then... I mean, I ranked it above the impenetrable KSR, but I understand why KSR is there -- that book, I'm willing to accept on faith, is an excellent example of a sub-genre I don't care about, 'cos ain't nobody got time for that. Is it just that Mur Lafferty is beloved in other categories (fancast, zine) and this carried over?
I haven't read "Wind Will Rove" yet, alas
Oh, duh! I keep forgetting it's a novelette and not a short story. Anyway, I hope you enjoy it if and when.
when I dug up your short story summary post, I admit to being somewhat self-congratulatory about having managed to dodge the story you liked least. ;)
Heh, I was wondering if it was a coincidence or not -- but, yeah, I don't think you're missing anything. But it did win the Locus, so, IDK, maybe it's doing something that I can't discern for other people.
"Carnival" worked for me surprisingly well -- I mean, how much I liked it surprised myself, because it's not the kind of story I'd normally like, I think -- gimmicky in a fairly transparent heart-tug way, and the circus/carnival aesthetic isn't my thing either. But something about it just worked. And I did finish "Mostly Steady Hand", but it never stopped being Not My Thing, no. I can absolutely see the appeal of it to other people, and it's equisitely written, and I can see its, mmm, objective value, but I didn't ENJOY it. So, are you rooting for "Fandom for Robots" or "Authentic Indian Experience"?
and I get the impression that I'm generally more tolerant of earnest anachronistic Tumblr-isms than you are.
I think so too, and I do know people who loved it, so it may work like that for you. My guess -- we can check if I was right if you do read it -- is that the structural problems will annoy you even if the earnest anachronistic Tumblr-ness does not. Here's a review from a DW flister that highlights some of that.
If you can make it to the halfway point, the desire to chew your your leg off (🤣) diminishes significantly, but that's ... still not a recommendation. :D
LOL! Yeah, I think I'm good XD
I do heartily endorse your plans to read Skinful of Shadows, In Other Lands, and Summer in Orcus. Especially In Other Lands, and if you love it as much as K and I do, I can drag you along to stalk SRB at the one panel she's at :D (But you're absolutely right not to push through and take the time to enjoy them.)
but the things I've heard (... which have all conveniently slipped my mind at the moment) have left me on the fence about whether it sounds like something I'd actually enjoy or not.
Hmm, I'd be curious to know -- if you remember at some point -- what things you've heard that make you unsure you'd enjoy Divine Cities.
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I hope you successfully avoid it. :)
Out of curiosity, do you have any particular tips/tricks? I've mostly been taking the route of shrugging and reminding myself that I have plenty of other hobbies I can be concentrating on instead, but it would be really nice to get back to my TBR pile eventually. XD
that book, I'm willing to accept on faith, is an excellent example of a sub-genre I don't care about, 'cos ain't nobody got time for that.
🤣 I have to admit, I'm glad you forced yourself through just enough pages of that book to issue all these take-downs, because they are delightful. :D
re Mur, my guess would be that she's been around long enough and gathered enough of a following that there were a lot of people who were like NEW MUR BOOK WHEE when Six Wakes came out, which gave her a built-in core of (a) people likely to be predisposed positively towards the book, who (b) then could word-of-mouth it further? And maybe throw in some people for whom a neat premise is enough, or who read few enough books that they're less bothered by structural difficulties?
idk but I'll be very interested to see the vote breakdowns. :)
Heh, I was wondering if it was a coincidence or not
... half a coincidence? :D I thought I remembered you talking about Authentic Experience and that you'd actually nominated Carnival Nine, so I made a point of reading those first. ;) And then I couldn't remember anything about the other two, so I picked the Fran Wilde one because I'd read one of her books (Updraft) and liked it all right. :D
Carnival I think I like less the more I think about it, but definitely in a "it's not you, it's me" sort of way -- the arc of the MC deciding to effectively completely devote her life to caretaking, with an explicit nod to the fact that part of what factored into her decision is knowing how guilty she'd feel otherwise, just ... really bothers me. :\
I do appreciate that the narrative makes it clear that it is her own, well-reasoned decision, and that it likely is what would make her happiest, but having seen other people struggle with caretaking issues, and particularly with feeling guilt for not somehow being superhuman / occasionally wanting time to themselves, the more I think about the story the more I just want to bang pots and pans and yell YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DEVOTE YOUR ENTIRE LIFE TO OTHER PEOPLE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO AND ANYONE WHO CLAIMS YOU DO IS SUSPECT AND PROBABLY AN ASSHOLE.
... To be clear, I don't think that that's something the story is trying to say, because I do think it did a good job of showing this as one woman's choice, not The Thing That All Women Must Do. But, it hits some sore spots, and fundamentally I think I'm also just a lot more similar personality-wise to her spider-mom than to the main character herself. XD
Mostly Steady Hand I think falls into that category of short fiction that made me believe for a long time that I didn't like short fiction at all: a lot more about a clever premise and an ~aesthetic~ than about a story, so since the former wasn't really to my taste, it just leaves me feeling sort of empty inside. :P
I had to think about it, but in the end I leaned towards Fandom -- Authentic Experience is probably the more ~important~ story, but I actually enjoyed Fandom. :P I also continue to have a low-key beef with stories that end on a ~was it all real~ note. :P That said, I'll still be pleased if either that story wins, or if Roanhorse takes the Campbell -- she's certainly an author I'm looking forward to seeing more of. :)
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is that the structural problems will annoy you even if the earnest anachronistic Tumblr-ness does not
Hahahaha that does sound on brand for me, yes. :D
I can drag you along to stalk SRB at the one panel she's at :D
LOL, I was going to respond with "I may not have read In Other Lands yet, but I've enjoyed other books of hers" ... and then realized I was confusing her with Holly Black, and have just heard y'all talk about other books of hers often enough that the name recognition was on par with an author I've actually read. :'D
So ... let's just say that I'm game to be dragged along to stalk SRB panels regardless of whether I manage to have read anything by her or not. :D
... Especially the YA one, where I'll be stalking Fonda Lee anyway. :D
what things you've heard that make you unsure you'd enjoy Divine Cities.
I think it was maybe an aesthetic thing? E.g. getting the impression that the world would be too grimdark for my current tastes, or the story too ~epic~?
But tbh it could just as easily been me side-eyeing "male author I don't know" / "female MC" and making completely unfair snap judgments. XD
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I tend to approach it similarly to how I do food cravings, which is to tell myself that if all of a sudden I'm craving milk and Oreos, or hot and sour sauce, or something else odd and not necessarily good for me, there's probably a reason for it and it's fine to indulge every once in a while. In reading terms, that means taking time out to read dubious m/m, ridiculous YA, fic, or Taltos for the Nth time, and hoping things will average out eventually. I do often end up starting a dozen different books and switching idly between them without making much progress on any, in this state, but eventually either I hit on the right one or the stage passes and I make some actual progress.
all these take-downs, because they are delightful. :D
Haha, thank you! I'm glad you're finding them entertaining.
I suspect you're right re: Mur Lafferty's book, or at least something along those lines.
I thought I remembered you talking about Authentic Experience and that you'd actually nominated Carnival Nine, so I made a point of reading those first. ;)
Ah, gotcha!
Mostly Steady Hand I think falls into that category of short fiction that made me believe for a long time that I didn't like short fiction at all: a lot more about a clever premise and an ~aesthetic~ than about a story, so since the former wasn't really to my taste, it just leaves me feeling sort of empty inside. :P
Interesting! I see what you mean, of course, and I agree on the premice + aesthetic nature of this story. I somehow never associated this approach with short fiction in particular, though it probably is more prevalent here. I don't LIKE stories like that, but find I'm much more prepared to bear them in short story format than anything longer. Like, "Children of Thorns" in the novelette category felt like a setting + aesthetic kind of thing for me (although there are characters and a plot; I just didn't feel like either was sufficiently developed/interesting to me). But while "Steady Hand" got a "not my thing but you do you" vote from me, I actively disliked "Children of Thorns" (and ranked it below No Award) for basically the same "problems".
Authentic Experience is probably the more ~important~ story, but I actually enjoyed Fandom. :P I also continue to have a low-key beef with stories that end on a ~was it all real~ note
I felt like the "was it real" aspect was sufficiently gaslighting-like in this particular story that a) I firmly believed it was real on the level where it mattered (although, of course, it's never clear HOW any of this actually worked; but I was fine with that kind of uncertainty), and b) that the doubt of reality actually added to this particular story, not in the existential sort of "what is real?" way, but both the personal and societal aspects of looking up and finding that your life has been stolen from you and you're not sure how it happened / can't convince anyone of your truth. Like, it served an actual profound purpose in this case. I couldn't say that I enjoyed the story, because it's a pretty grim story, but I thought it was very well done, and worthy.
I'll still be pleased if either that story wins, or if Roanhorse takes the Campbell -- she's certainly an author I'm looking forward to seeing more of. :)
Ditto on the Campbell -- I had such a hard time ranking Roanhorse, Solomon, and Arden, and I hope whoever doesn't win this year gets a good shot at it next year, at least. And I'm looking forward to reading Roanhorse's novel, which I hope I like at least as much as this short story.
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Hmm, maybe I should start doing this -- I think that's part of what's drawn me to a halt, is feeling like if I start something, I'll need to go ahead and finish it, and being reluctant to make that sort of commitment. (Might also explain why most of the things I have been successful at reading have been novellas. XD)
... Not that I don't also have 7-8 books in progress, but most of them are things I started earlier in the year and petered out on. :P
find I'm much more prepared to bear them in short story format than anything longer.
Yup, agreed. I think it also makes affinity(?) with the aesthetic much more important too -- I can enjoy a pure-aesthetic story if it's one that actually works for me, but creepy sideshow voyeurism with a side of implied body horror is very much not my thing, and if there isn't anything to your story but that ... :P
And good to know re: Children of Thorns; I'll keep that in mind (with interest in seeing how it works for me) if I ever get back to going through the Novelette category. (Aside from Wind Will Rove, which I'd definitely like to read. :) )
Like, it served an actual profound purpose in this case.
Yep, definitely agreed! I think I have a stronger preference than a lot of people for things to be tied up in neat bows (or at least satisfying ones? though I'm sure that's an even more subjective measure :P), but it's pretty clear that doing that in this case would have made it a weaker story overall.
I hope whoever doesn't win this year gets a good shot at it next year, at least
Yep, agreed! Not sure about Solomon, but given that Arden and Roanhorse have books out this year, I suspect there's a good chance they'll show up on the Campbell list next year too. :)
IIRC the spider-mom is not explicitly condemned for her choice?
Definitely not explicitly, which I did appreciate. I did feel like there was still a low-level underpinning of "why create a child at all if you're just going to abandon them" but that might just be me projecting current societal mores unfairly. :'D
So, if anything, I empathized with the protagonist's husband and the more complicated and course-correcting choices there.
Yeah, that was really nice to see -- that sometimes people do reconsider their decisions and grow and change back together instead of further apart. :)
And there are close friends, so there's that, too.
Hahahaha, that makes me feel a bit better. ;)
So, like, no more grimdark or epic than Machineries of Empire, based on my current estimate?
Ah, interesting! Yeah, that seems well within my tolerance levels / potentially relevant to my interests with the ~modern fantasy and people trying to improve things etc. :) (And the cool-sounding female characters. :D)
Looking forward to hearing further thoughts!
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Yeahhh, nor mine. I think, upon pondering this some more, really good descriptive writing can carry me through a short enough story where the aesthetic is as poor a mismatch for me as that -- not enjoyin the story, but, like, emerging with a positive enough experience just because of the craft. Which is what happened with the Fran Wilde one. But beyond a certain length and it doesn't matter how good the writing is, I think, I'm going to need something more.
And good to know re: Children of Thorns; I'll keep that in mind (with interest in seeing how it works for me) if I ever get back to going through the Novelette category.
It was actually quite disappointing to me because dragons-in-human-form and magical oligarchy, which the setting seems to abound in, are two things I would normally adore to read about. And here neither did anything for me. And it wasn't even Seanan McGuire-style uncanny valley where it's things I should love but subtly off -- it was just really dull. :/
but given that Arden and Roanhorse have books out this year, I suspect there's a good chance they'll show up on the Campbell list next year too. :)
I'm definitely planning to nominate whoever of the three doesn't win this year. And I put Roanhorse third on my ballot because I was thinking the new novel would give her a boost next year.
I did feel like there was still a low-level underpinning of "why create a child at all if you're just going to abandon them" but that might just be me projecting current societal mores unfairly. :'D
I do think the story evokes that, but not, like, in a pointed way, just in that it's a natural question to ask in this case? I think it's a question that's made harder to answer but the story's worldbuilding -- it's not like you can accidentally get pregnant given this premise, or (presumably) have hormonally triggered post-partum depression. But outside of that, I felt like the story was 'unbiased' enough that it didn't really matter why the spider-mom had chosen to have the child and leave her, because the protagonist had clearly had a pretty good life, and seemed like she definitely would've preferred it to not existing, so.
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That makes sense. :) And I strongly suspect I'm the same way.
because dragons-in-human-form and magical oligarchy
... How do you make that dull. o.O
But outside of that, I felt like the story was 'unbiased' enough that it didn't really matter why the spider-mom had chosen to have the child and leave her, because the protagonist had clearly had a pretty good life, and seemed like she definitely would've preferred it to not existing, so.
Yep, agreed. :)
(And even though it didn't work as well for me, I'm still really surprised that it ended up ranked as low as it did ...)
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Thanks for sharing your "Carnival Nine" thoughts. It's been a while since I read it, since I did not reread it after it made the shortlist, but IIRC the spider-mom is not explicitly condemned for her choice?
My own feelings on this are complicated, because I think I would be a horrible caretaker in a situation which is long-term or likely to go from bad to worse. Like, taking care of babies is fine because babies grow up and become increasingly self-sufficient. I don't think I could cope well with a special needs child, and let's just say I'm glad that my brother seems to be a much more naturally nurturing person than me... Of course, I haven't actually had to make those kinds of choices (well, except for the choice of leaving behind my non-special-needs children to continue touring with the carnival, I guess :P), and it's hard to know how one would actually react. So, if anything, I empathized with the protagonist's husband and the more complicated and course-correcting choices there. But even so, I couldn't really tell you why I liked the story as much as I did...
... Especially the YA one, where I'll be stalking Fonda Lee anyway. :D
I think it's the only one SRB is on, so sounds like it will be relevant to both our interests! (And I'm glad to hear Fonda Lee is a good panelist :)
Also, I'm amused but not totally surprised you confuse SRB and Holly Black, because I think of them together quite often and occasionally have to remind myself which one is the Cursworkers one vs the Demon Lexicon one :) And there are close friends, so there's that, too.
E.g. getting the impression that the world would be too grimdark for my current tastes, or the story too ~epic~?
I'm not finding it too grimdark so far, despite a couple of fairly graphic scenes (but I also know that I have more tolerance / ability to enjoy grimdarkness). Like, the world itself does not feel especially grimdark, partly because it's fairly modern and partly because I get the sense that there are people motivated to improve the depressing socio-political conditions of the beginning. I'm definitely not far enough along to tell whether they will be successful, but it seems like we're meant to root for them rather than laugh at their naivite. But time will tell, of course. And the modernity of the world also makes it feel less Epic in the high fantasy sense, though it does seem like the story might have large-scale political implications. So, like, no more grimdark or epic than Machineries of Empire, based on my current estimate?
side-eyeing "male author I don't know" / "female MC
That's a totally fair concern! The female MC in questions seems to be pretty cool so far, and I don't think I've had any "clearly written by a dude" negative moments with her yet. There's also a secondary female character who's a Retired(ish) Military Badass (which is a type I have a weakness for) and what seems to be a female Chessmaster sort of type, and they're both pretty interesting also. Anyway, further thoughts to come as I actually finish the book.
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Or, if you trust our opinion without verifying it for yourself, IT DOES SQUANDER ITS PREMISE and I was surprised I actually read it to find out the exact flavour of disappointment, but you know, this time could have been used to read something actually entertaining.
I condone Collapsing Empire, though -- for Kiva the zero-fucks-given merchant chick in space. (But like, probs not sooner than things I actually hope you enjoy in full, not just partially :P)
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for Kiva the zero-fucks-given merchant chick in space
Also "Granny" :D
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I suspect there's a decent chance I actually will read them before Elliots and Hardinges, in part bc the library books are still sitting there taunting me, and mostly bc I find I'm still largely in a checklist-y sort of mood, which seems better suited to (former) giris than books I wish to actually be enthusiastic about. :)
And our EHAD discussion was very interesting to me :D -- btw, I forget if I've mentioned yet, but I did end up reading book 3 and tbh I think it's the weakest of the three, with SMG's tendencies towards didacticism on full display, so definitely one to skip for y'all. :D
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