Dragaera meme with bonus visuals

May 17, 2013 19:54

Skipping ahead to do two days of the Dragaera meme because, well, you'll see:

31. Which book set in Dragaera would you rather SKZB wrote next (of the remaining Vlad ones, post-Hawk, or standalone)

As q99 pointed out at some point (and SKZB agreed), it would be great to see a Zerika book, either one set between Viscount and Taltos or one set in Vlad's day but with her POV.

Of the Vlad books, the remaining ones after Hawk and before The Last Contract (assuming that's still the plan for the final one) are Chreotha, Tsalmoth, Lyorn, and Vallista. I can't think of any characters belonging to those houses that I would like to see again (I don't think we've even met any memorable Chreothas or Vallistas), so it's basically down to the thematic relevance of the book. And for that, I think I'd like to see Lyorn best, because I think those traits would be the biggest stretch for Vlad -- he can do traps and he can endure/attack a problem from several different sides, and rending/rebuilding is likely to be metaphorical I'm guessing, which I also don't see as much of a stretch, but the Lyorn traits of scrupulous honor and tradition are pretty different from Vlad's usual MO. The other thing Lyorns stand for is history, and that's interesting both if it's Vlad's personal history or Vlad learning more about the history of the Empire (or his own people), or any combination of the two. So, definitely Lyorn.

32. Three (or more) characters from other fandoms who would make perfect additions to a Dragaeran house (and which one(s))

Funny you should ask! ;)


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Art credit:
cycle -- by silverstaff on dA
Vetinari -- lucius007 on dA
Margaery -- kimpertinent on dA
Feanor -- gold-seven on dA
Alys, Miles, Piotr, Galeni -- gemmiona on dA
Weasleys -- avender on dA
Librarian -- grapicus-art on dA
Marcone -- guad
Stannis -- Amoka
Kvothe by Kim Kincaid
Phedre -- Kushiel's Scion cover
Harry Dresden from the pro comics

Phoenix


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Emperor Cartagia (Babylon 5) is the clearest example of a decadent Phoenix I can imagine. He is crazy, and weak, and a terrible head of state, and has delusions of grandeur and paranoia -- he's basically perfect. And "Falling towards Apotheosis" feels like such a Dragaeran thing, in general.

For Phoenix reborn, I went with Daenerys Targaryen (ASOIAF), the Unburnt -- someone who literally emerged from a funeral pyre stronger and more powerful than she'd ever been -- she may be "blood of the dragon" in her canon, but phoenix imagery is even more fitting. And even before then she had the moniker "Stormborn", which seems to fit with the Phoenix tradition of special events happening at the birth of a true Phoenix (a phoenix flying overhead). Well, and the Targaryens have that greatness-or-madness duality that in general maps them onto House Phoenix for me.

River Tam (Firefly) also seems like a Phoenix to me, partly for the greatness-(and)-madness thing, and partly because her post-Hands of Blue-modifications powers make me think of Zerika emerging from the Paths of the Dead with the Orb. Cartagia is clearly decadent and Dany (at least so far) seems to be set up as a reborn sort of Phoenix, the second coming of Aegon the Conqueror the way Zerika VI is a re-unifier of the Empire, but River seems to me to have the vibe of a Phoenix who could really go either way, so I like having her in the mix.

Dragon


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Adron in 500YA reminded me a whole lot of Feanor (Silmarillion), so that was the strongest basis for comparison -- someone who is incredibly proud with the sort of pride that isn't really arrogance because (as someone once said at work in our "dealing with difficult people" training) he is just that good), whose pride and whose faith in his own rightness (and other people's willingness to follow them into anything) leads to large-scale disaster, because people like that don't do anything by halves, including screwing up. And Adron playing around with chaos stones even reminds me of Feanor's silmarils, so.

Tywin Lannister (ASOIAF) is another character whom Adron reminded me of quite strongly, mostly because I think they are both Fieldmarshals/ESTJ. But in general I think Tywin and the other Lannisters are pretty Dragon-lord like -- incredibly proud, martial by inclination, with strong (but often complicated) bonds of family and lineage (I'd never really thought about it in detail, but I feel like the only close family relationships we see among Dragaerans are among Dragonlords, and they have the patronymic thing, which suggests they care more about their specific family connections than other houses do).

Ivanova and G'Kar (Babylon 5) strike me as Dragon-like for different reasons. She is career military, which seems to be a Dragon thing, and has a lot of Dragonlord fierceness without that Dzur streak of suicidal crazy. I could very easily see her as someone like Virt e'Terics. G'Kar (this was lunasariel's suggestion) has that Proud Warrior Race Guy thing going from the start, which is true of Dragonlords even more than of the other Dragaerans (again, without Dzur's heroic streak). His pride is one of his key characteristics, and his leadership style feels rather Dragonlord-like to me. (Also, ebonhost is probably a Dragonlord, so it seemed fitting ;)

Lyorn


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rahirah was the one who suggested my favorite crossover sorting for Lyorn, and I'm embarrassed not to have seen it myself -- Rupert Giles (BtVS) is such a perfect example! Like Aerich in the Paarfi books, he is the voice of experience, propriety, authority, etc. to the Scoobies, the moral center (though he does make mistakes, too, as with the Watchers Council, which makes him a lot more interesting than Aerich). And, of course, he's a librarian, which is perfect for the archivally-inclined house Lyorn.

I waffled a bit on whether to include Duv Galeni (Vorkosigan Saga), but it just felt right. Lyorns seem to be "by the book" sort of people in whatever pursuit they undertake, and that is the right feel for Galeni. Plus, they tend to be historians and archivists and stuff, and Galeni was a history professor before undertaking a second career in the military, and still has raptures over historical artefacts and such. Plus, like Giles, he just has that combination of dignity, reserve, and the ability to pummel people very badly under the right set of circumstances that feels very Lyorn to me (the features that I actually liked about Aerich, that is).

The Librarian is pretty much just there for a joke, but I couldn't resist :)

Tiassa


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I originally had only one sorting for this, but that was OK, becuase it's the perfect one: Miles Vorkosigan is such a Tiassa, it's not even funny. FORWARD MOMENTUM is pretty much what Tiassa do, and Miles's schemes are every bit as inspired/crazy/complex as the stuff the Silver Tiassa leads people to. He is brilliant at thinking on his feet, and he never shuts up. Young Tiassa apparently tend to be ambitious, too, and Miles certainly sets out to prove things to people.

A late addition to this sorting is Kvothe (Kingkiller Chronicles). Young Kvothe shares a lot of the same traits as Miles -- as mauvais_pli put it, Kvothe's greatest talent is bullshitting, which is a very Tiassa trait. But I'm including him not just for the Miles-likenes, but also because when we see him as Kote in the framing story, that reminds me a fair bit of Khaavren at the beginning of Paths of the Dead -- someone who feels he has failed in a way it's impossible to recover from -- a Tiassa with the FORWARD MOMENTUM zavod run down. (I suspect Bast is a Tiassa too, btw.)

Hawk


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Sherlock and Mycroft Holmes (Sherlock BBC) was actually how this whole thing started, because I was trying to decide if Sherlock would be in Hawk or Athyra (and q99 and lunasariel both convinced me it would be Hawk). I definitely buy the logic -- observation is the Hawk's bailiwick, and that's Sherlock's thing as well, plus he's got the whole not-fit-for-polite-society genius thing a la Daymar. Mycroft is rather different, of course, but his eminence grise thing seems to me more fitting to Hawk than, say, Yendi -- he tends to be rather hands off in his efforts, and the way he is introduced in the show, observation has a lot to do with it, too. And I just like having both brothers in the same house.

Luna Lovegood (Harry Potter) is pretty much a Daymar analogue, really, in the Cloud Cuckoolander way, and she's also someone who spends a lot of her time observing -- mostly hunting non-existent creatures for the Quibbler, but still.

Willow Rosenberg (BtVS) was suggested by rahirah, and she makes sense to me. Hawks seem to be the nerds of the Dragaeran world, those who enjoy studying not for applied purposes (like the more research-inclined Dragonlords), power (Athyra), or preserving knowledge (Lyorn), but driven by natural curiosity. That's what Willow is driven by, too, in both mundane and magical studies, so this seems like a good fit for her.

Dzur


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Harry Dresden is like, the Dzur-iest Dzur outside of, like, Tazendra Lavode. He's got the heroism, the habit of fighting against impossible odds and snarking at them without being the least bit discouraged, the tendency to employ brute force even though he's capable of finer magic, too, and even the rather narrow definition of what constitutes honorable behavior (and the way to deal with behaviour outside of that definition), like his whole hissifit when he found out McCoy was the Blackstaff or the situation at the end of Changes.

Mal Reynolds (Firefly) feels very much like a Dzur, too -- his "there are other schools of thought" approach to fighting, holding Serenity Valley against impossible odds ("We have done the impossible and that makes us mighty" is such a Dzur sentiment, really!), and he does things like going drinking at Alliance-friendly bars. Dzur through and through!

Buffy Summers (BtVS) is less of a textbook example, I feel like, because while she certainly kicks ass, she doesn't seem to get the same thrill from fighting that Mal and Harry clearly do -- the Chosen's duty and abilities is something she learns to live with and embrace rather than something she gleefully welcomes. But she definitely fits the heroic Dzur mold. For the icon, I specifically looked for the cap from "Anne" with the sickle thing because to me that's the moment most emblematic of that: her willingness to take on all the powers of... wherever that was pretty much single-handedly and unarmed, for the sake of people she at best barely even knows. Because that's what heroes do.

Issola


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The Tyrells (ASOIAF) in general are a very Issola house -- expert courtiers who always manage to come out on top, and who are not to be underestimate even though they may be sparkly and pretty. Like, the Purple Wedding is basically the epitome of "strik[ing] from courtly bow". And they even seem to like music and songs. Margaery was the one I went with because she most exemplifies that seemingly-gentle grace that seems to be the hallmark of Issola, and because I definitely think she was in on the Purple Wedding even if Olenna was the one who masterminded it with Littlefinger.

Alys Vorpatril (Vorkosigan Saga) is another consummate Issola courtier. She even occuppies Lady Teldra's role, more or less, in the Emperor's court -- inasmuch as Gregor has a senechal or master of ceremonies, Alys is definitely it. And people dismiss and underestimate her at their peril (as Miles points out in ACC), which is true of Issola also.

Now, it would be an understatement to say that I don't like Phedre no Delaunay (Kushiel Legacy), but that doesn't matter, because she is probably the Issoliest Issola of them all. Covertcy is such an Issola pursuit, especially the way Phedre goes about it, and "that which yields is not always weak" is a good counterpart to "Issola strikes from courtly bow", I find.

I also thing the role of Companion in Firefly-verse is something that would be filled overwhelmingly with Issola in a fusion of the two universes. Inara Serra is a good example of why -- decorative, cultured, exquisitely mannered -- by someone very capable of going on the offensive, especially when underestimated.

Tsalmoth



So we actually don't know a whole lot about Tsalmoths, so I'm basically going off the Cycle poem ("maintains though none know how", which isn't a lot to go on) and Lyorn records, plus Garland. I was stumped for any Tsalmoths at all, but cordialcount suggested Piotr Vorkosigan, which seems to fit the Lyorn Records description pretty well. Piotr is certainly a survivor, and like that quote I reporduced a couple of days ago, somebody who evolves with the times, adopts new techniques (going from horses to atomics, as Miles puts it), and keeps on going. And once gets the sense that his has great but not inexhaustible loyalty, which Lyorn Records suggests is a Tsalmoth trait. (I think this is the sole Piotr art in existence, btw...)

Vallista



Vallista is another house we don't know much about, but they do tend to be builders and engineers. The whole "rends and then rebuilds" thing from the Cycle poem also feels fitting for Tony Stark, who goes from being a purveyor of weapons of mass destruction to a superhero defending the peace in his home-built suit. And he's got the Stark Tower and clean tech and all that other stuff -- I couldn't think of another character who encompassed both of those sides.

Jhereg



Gentleman Johnny Marcone (Dresden Files) is a really easy pick for Jhereg, seeing as how he's a big time mob boss. But in addition to being a mob baron, Marcone also has the competence, ruthlessness, and personal code which characterize those Jhereg bigshots that Vlad enjoyed working with or for, so he seemed like a good fit.

If I'd been able to find art of them, I would've also included the Zacharovs, father and daughter, and probably Desi Sharpe from the Curseworkers books (not Cassel, though, he's too conflicted).

Iorich


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Since Iorich is the house concerned with justice, Stannis Baratheon (ASOIAF) was the first character to occur to me. Vengeful, long memory, reactive rather than active -- it all seems to fit Stannis really well.

Sam Vimes (Discworld) was another character who seemed to fit quite well, by the nature of his profession as copper and general inclination. He is certainly somebody who holds the Law above most things, as Iorich seem to do.

Chreotha


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This was another really tough house for me, because we know so little about Chreothas -- they just appear as bit characters selling stuff for the most part. I finally settled on Fred and George Weasley (Harry Potter) as representatives, because they are good at traps (see the stuff they pulled on Umbrudge in OotP), whimsical/mischievous, and also mercanotirly inclined, which seems to be a Chreotha thing.

If I'd been able to find any suitable fanart of him, I would've also included Mark Vorkosigan, per cordialcount's suggestion. While Miles is definitely a Tiassa, Mark seems to take a less "riding the tiger" approach, so he seems to be better at planning -- or maybe just at sitting back and letting his plans bear fruit instead of piling more action on top of them, and he's definitely inclined towards finances and trading (without the Orcas' unscrupulousness).

Yendi


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Yendi was the house that started this whole icon-making venture, because, when talking about Vetinari for the Discworld meme I mentioned that, as difficult as he is to sort into Hogwarts or ASOIAF houses, Yendi is his true spiritual home. So, yeah -- super-twisty mind, complicated, far-reaching plots, surprising skills, it's all there. And he is someone who reminds me of Pel in particular, someone who has transcended his ambition and is now working to do as much good as he can in the role he occuppies (and it keeps him off the streets :P)

Alan Ryves (Demon's Lexicon) is another Yendi, because he seems to have the pathological Chessmaster syndrome that Yendi seem prone to -- using guile even when it would be more efficient / effective not to, because he apparently can't help it.

Irene Adler (BBC Sherlock) and Saffron (Firefly) are Yendi material, too -- they seem to be in it for the love of the game at least as much as for any actual gain, which seems like a very Yendi thin. And they are very good at playing roles and pretending to be something that they aren't, which seems to be the Yendi MO.

Orca


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Jayne Cobb (Firefly) is a great example of the kind of Orca we meet in the Vlad books -- an unscrupulous, money-obsessed thug. Of course, there's more to him than that, but there is that fundamental Orca-ness to his character. (As an aside, when I read Brust's Firefly fanfic novel, My Own Kind of Freedom, the thing that worked least well for me was Jayne's characterization -- he seemed to be lacking completely in any of the little nuances that had made this character my favorite on rewatching the show. I really do think SKZB just saw him as an Orca thug, and he himself has admitted that he can't get past his dislike of the Orca traits and that it was the only house he did not grow to sympathize more with after writing the titular book.)

And then rahirah suggested Anya (BtVS) which was perfect, too. She is a much more cheerful Orca than Jayne, but her obsession with money definitely seems to fit.

Teckla


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This was a really fun house to sort for, because while Teckla are supposedly associated with cowardice and insignificance, there are actually many Teckla we meet who are anything but -- Savn cares for Vlad and takes the almost unimaginable step of killing his lord, Mica weathers many adventures beside Tazendra armed with his trusty barstool, including facing sorcerers and Jenoine, the revolutionary Teckla involved in Cawti's group seem pretty brave if at times misguided, Clari (Ibronka's maid) seems no less brave than her Dzur mistress or Tiassa companion. So, I really enjoyed picking for this characters who are underestimated and dismissed for being humble or cowardly but who I actually believe are pretty darn awesome: Sam Gamgee (LotR), who is even fittingly a peasant sort; Sam Tarly (ASOIAF), and, as lunasariel suggested, Vir Cotto (Babylon 5).

Jhegaala


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I was completely stumped for Jhegaala as well, but q99 and rahirah came to the rescue.

Zuko (AtLA) is really a very good Jhegaala, because he changes and adapts so much during over the course of the show -- even his appearance changes a lot, as seems fitting to a Jhegaala. But also a little bit because I always thing of Jhegaala in their toad-like form, and Zuko has that really memorable scene with a toad :) (I had to use the "Zuko here" cap, of course, because a) toad and b) it's an actual inflection point for him.)

Harmony (BtVS, and presumably Angel, though I haven't seen her there) is another adaptable character, going through both literal change into a vampire and personal growth. I imagine it's ever clearer on AtS, but even just BtVS was enough for me to agree with this sorting.

Athyra


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The first one we sorted into Athyra was Jim Moriarty (BBC Sherlock) -- he seems too crazy to be a Yendi and too malevolent to be a Hawk, while mindgames qua mindgames could totally be an Athyra thing.

And even cleaner example, suggested by q99, is Saruman (LotR). A wizard who is happy to interfere with the natural order of things for personal gain definitely seems like an Athyra to me.

(And I didn't bother making an icon because I don't know enough about him, but even from the limited familiarity I possess (the two Fantastic Four movies), Reed Richards/Mr Fantastic is clearly an Athyra too.)

icons, dragaera

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