the only thing I liked very much was Harry and Thomas's reunion. OMG, this! ALL THE BROHUGS! I still can't say I follow Thomas' logic re: Harry's sorta-suicide and how it reflects on Thomas himself, but the awesomeness of everything else more than made up for it. And I can see how this novel in particular would make a Thomas/Molly shipper very, very happy, since A) very little Justine, and B) they do seem to get paired up, situation-wise, an awful lot, especially when he guards her while he does her magic thing in battle. ;)
the Za Lord's Guard in their winter-branded uniforms of toothpaste tubes and coke cans were adorable in general LOL, this! I never thought I'd think of the Coke bear, or toothpaste, as badass.
I agree that Molly needed to get over her crush on Harry, like, three books ago. (Come back, Carlos!) XP Definitely not looking forward to the inevitable conversation with the Carpenters. By this point, it seems to be just drama/angst for drama's/angst's sake (as well as, of course, everything you mention, especially giving Harry yet another chance to be all chivalrous and turn her down)
totally side-eyeing Butters and Andi. I was more "...huh?" than *sideye*, but I agree that this ship doesn't quite work (even aside from me being all protective over Butters/Molly Hooper). Like, I can't recall them ever having had a conversation, or interacting in anything more than a group setting.
female werewoves are apparently still not allowed to do anything more useful than be victims (lampshading it with "danger-prone Daphne" does not actually make it better, no). Ooh! One point I forgot to make in my review was that I was REALLY tempted to write a srs bznz literary analysis-style paper on feminism in the Dresden Files. Like, fetishizing and/or demonizing powerful women is still fetishizing and/or demonizing, but then again Thomas gets his share of storm-grey eyes and rippling abs, but then again he's pretty much the only example of that (well, maybe plus Kincaid), so it's still pretty unbalanced, and men are generally described as powerful = sexy, while women are generally described as vulerable = sexy (see: Sarissa at Harry's birthday party). And powerful women are demonized, but then again so are powerful men (see: Papa Raith, Morgan, the Merlin). And Harry's attitude in general quite often seems to be more self-congratulatory than anything, like when he's being all Right and Noble in turning down Molly and making that speech about how he's totally okay with teh gayz (but still slips in a little moralizing), and, and and. But *then* there are genuinely kickass women, like Lacuna (agreed that Toot-toot's wooing is going to be HI-larious) and Murphy (well, the old Murphy, anyway) and Lea, who can take care of themselves and don't need Harry swooping in to rescue them ever five minutes (in fact, they probably rescue him more than he does them). Man, I could go on like this for a while, I haven't even touched on his stance towards sexuality in general (see: Maeve [cunning, powerful, and aggressively sexual (although I gotta admit, "vajazzled" did get a chuckle out of me)] versus Lily [sweet, demure, and kind of helpelss and dumb])! ...And stopping now. I mean it this time. XD
Harry's brain parasite -- is Lash involved in some way (in keeping it at bay, e.g.?). Interesting, I hadn't thought of that! I wouldn't mind seeing some more of her, especially since it's been awhile since we checked in with that side of things, and a sort of wizardly version of the Discworld witches' Third Thoughts might be especially helpful now.
In that vein, what do you think happened to Mother Winter's missing stick? It seemed ominous that it's apparently been lost/stolen...
I still can't say I follow Thomas' logic re: Harry's sorta-suicide and how it reflects on Thomas himself,
I've been thinking about this some more, and I really do think it was way less Thomas saying, "Waah, Harry, you think I'd be better off dead" and more Thomas saying, "So, Harry, by your logic, should I just off myself, too?", knowing Harry would, of course, vehemently disagree with that and thus underlining the flaw in Harry's logic. Kind of similar to Murphy pointing out to Harry that her father always said "later" about spending time with her, when Harry is dithering over going to see Maggie. So, that's why it works for me, which is not to say that it should work for you or everyone.
even aside from me being all protective over Butters/Molly Hooper
Molly Hooper/Butters is the best Butters ship, it is known. There needs to be crossover fic of this. Harry and Sherlock can come too, looming over people in their long coats, and Murphy and John can bond over being tiny but fierce surrounded by nutcases.
I was REALLY tempted to write a srs bznz literary analysis-style paper on feminism in the Dresden Files
I would read the hell out of that. Especially if it was written by somebody who was a fan of the series (while being aware of its flaws) and willing to give some credit where credit is due, and not, like, those types of people who think Mal is oppressing Zoe because she calls him "Sir". Because I have my impressions, but it would be really neat to see a full-blown analysis -- there's certainly plenty of material. On the one hand, you have powerful (yet somewhat sympathetic) females like the Queens and Lara, and badasses like Murphy, and wonderfully grey characters like Molly. On the other hand you have villains like Maeve, and female "comrades" who seem to be liabilities more than anything, like Georgia and Andi. And it would be really interesting to try to tease out what hinkiness is due to Harry the unreliably narrator's "chivalry" and stuff, and what's actually down to Butcher himself, either obliviousness or intentional fanservice. (I have similar though less extensive wonderings about the Kingkiller Chronicles, incidentally.)
Thomas gets his share of storm-grey eyes and rippling abs, but then again he's pretty much the only example of that (well, maybe plus Kincaid)
Yeah, there's definitely a disparity. And part of it is that it's all Harry's POV, of course, and he is much more interested in hot ladies than in what other males look like. And Thomas does get oggled by women plenty. But it stacks up for an overall unbalanced feel, even if it's perfectly explicable in-universe.
and making that speech about how he's totally okay with teh gayz (but still slips in a little moralizing),
Heh, that speech -- so random! It really felt like Butcher being all, "No, but look, Harry and I are totally progressive despite all the 'hyuk hyuk people think Thomas is gay not that there's anything wrong with that' jokes".
although I gotta admit, "vajazzled" did get a chuckle out of me
Oh, I meant to mention it in my write-up and totally forgot. I suspect this may be the first instance of "vajazzled" being used in (non-erotic) SFF, which ought to count for somethin. It got a shocked kind of giggle out of me, too.
and a sort of wizardly version of the Discworld witches' Third Thoughts might be especially helpful now
I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right, it would be similar, and it would be handy!
what do you think happened to Mother Winter's missing stick? It seemed ominous that it's apparently been lost/stolen...
You know, I totally forgot about that in the pile-up of massive things of changiness that was the last fifth. Huh, can't say as I have any ideas... What are your thoughts/what have you seen speculated about it?
I really do think it was way less Thomas saying, "Waah, Harry, you think I'd be better off dead" and more Thomas saying, "So, Harry, by your logic, should I just off myself, too?", knowing Harry would, of course, vehemently disagree Oh, okay! I was really focused on the "waah, you think I'm a monster, poor me" taking-it-way-too-personally aspect, because that seemed kind of odd for Thomas, but this makes a lot more sense. I finally get it! XD
Harry and Sherlock can come too, looming over people in their long coats, and Murphy and John can bond over being tiny but fierce surrounded by nutcases. YES to all of this! I would pay good money to see Harry getting annoyed and hexing Sherlock's phone, and John inevitably hitting on, possibly getting hit by, and then being tiny but fierce BFFs with Murphy.
But it stacks up for an overall unbalanced feel, even if it's perfectly explicable in-universe. Exactly what I'm talking about! There's a lot of material to wade through, but it would be iiiiinteresting (if time-consuming) to wade through and try to parse out which bits are Harry the character, and which are Harry the author avatar. Because there are some very clear cases of Harry just being a dummy and underestimating women because he (subconsciously) defaults to seeing them as vulnerable damsels rather than people with the capability to kick his ass, but then there is some genuine, as you so perfectly put it, hinkiness.
It really felt like Butcher being all, "No, but look, Harry and I are totally progressive despite all the 'hyuk hyuk people think Thomas is gay not that there's anything wrong with that' jokes". Heh, maybe it was to address fallout from...White Night, was it? Wherever Harry pretended to be Thomas' boyfriend in order to get into his apartment, anyway.
I totally forgot about that in the pile-up of massive things of changiness that was the last fifth. Yeah, that's actually what made it stick out to me. Like, I kind of feel it was intentionally buried under the flurry of other revelations, so it can simmer for a while and suddenly leap into prominence in a book or two? I've seen speculation that it's actually the Blackstaff, which would be interesting, but the way things are shaking out, it's probably going to be another case of "Nemesis did it for Reasons." :P
Harry getting annoyed and hexing Sherlock's phone, and John inevitably hitting on, possibly getting hit by, and then being tiny but fierce BFFs with Murphy
Haha, Sherlock's phone is so going down in this scenario XD And a meeting between John and Murphy would play out exactly this way!
Wherever Harry pretended to be Thomas' boyfriend in order to get into his apartment
Yep. I forget the exact book, but that's precisely what I was thinking, too.
Like, I kind of feel it was intentionally buried under the flurry of other revelations, so it can simmer for a while and suddenly leap into prominence in a book or two
Ooh, interesting! That would be very consistent with Butcher's MO, so I could totally see that be the case. The Blackstaff speculation is also very interesting! I feel like I've seen that somewhere too, now that you mention it.
it's probably going to be another case of "Nemesis did it for Reasons."
Aaand with that you've basically perfectly summarized my frustration with the whole Nemesis thing and what it means for the series overall XP
BTW! I confirmed with my parents that, whenever my father's birthday will be celebrated, it won't be the 18th, so the docket is clear for geekery + pub food at Parkside :) (assuming nothing has changed on your end)
That would be very consistent with Butcher's MO, so I could totally see that be the case. Yeah, it struck me as the kind of thing he would do, similar to the way he built up, say, Lash, or the Black Council. And I can't actually take credit for the Blackstaff theory - I got it off of an IRL friend, but she says she caught it floating around tumblr, so maybe you were linked to/came across it there?
my frustration with the whole Nemesis thing and what it means for the series overall XP I'm reeeeeally hoping they develop some sort of goal/motivation beyond "for teh evulz" and/or "because Cthulu."
the docket is clear for geekery + pub food at Parkside :) Huzzah! :D There actually has been a slight change of plans on my end, so I'll be getting back on the 18th itself, but I should still easily be able to make it on time for geekery + pub food - is the usual time still okay?
I'm reeeeeally hoping they develop some sort of goal/motivation beyond "for teh evulz" and/or "because Cthulu."
I'm sort of embarrassed not to have noticed it myself, in retrospect, but I recently read a review of Cold Days which pointed out that the introduction of Nemesis seems to be leading this series into the same... riverbed (sorry, I was just talking to Kay about books, and my vocabulary is all jumbled between languages -- the Russian word for "riverbed", "ruslo" would sound a lot less odd here) -- anyway, into the same riverbed as Butcher's other series, Codex Alera (this is the "Roman Empire + Pokemon" one that I think I've mentioned to you), where the main threat ends up being an alien hivelike lifeform agents of which take over people without anyone noticing (like Yeerks, only with way less individualism), and who stand poised to destroy the entire world and everything in it. That review advised Butcher to get a new schtick, which I kind of have to concur with, but we'll see -- maybe there will be a new take on this idea. *fingers crossed*
but I should still easily be able to make it on time for geekery + pub food - is the usual time still okay?
Yay!!! Is your usual time 6 or 6:30, I forget? Either one ought to be OK on my end, anyhow :)
the introduction of Nemesis seems to be leading this series into the same... riverbed (sorry, I was just talking to Kay about books, and my vocabulary is all jumbled between languages -- the Russian word for "riverbed", "ruslo" would sound a lot less odd here) No, actually, that's a very apt analogy; it makes sense in either language. And, my interest in code-switching and the process of vocabulary/word choice for bilingual/multilingual folks - let me show you it!
maybe there will be a new take on this idea. *fingers crossed* Same. Like, I'm reasonably sure he's too smart to exactly duplicate a twist that big, especially when he knows people will be on the lookout for it, but...*fingers crossed* indeed.
Is your usual time 6 or 6:30, I forget? 6, I think. And I promise I'll actually be on time this time! XD
Like, I'm reasonably sure he's too smart to exactly duplicate a twist that big,
Unless he doesn't realize he is replaying it. Which seems crazy having realized how similar the threads seem to be, but they start out in really different places, and the exact nature of the threat is different enough that maybe he doesn't know he's doing it. XP
OMG, this! ALL THE BROHUGS! I still can't say I follow Thomas' logic re: Harry's sorta-suicide and how it reflects on Thomas himself, but the awesomeness of everything else more than made up for it. And I can see how this novel in particular would make a Thomas/Molly shipper very, very happy, since A) very little Justine, and B) they do seem to get paired up, situation-wise, an awful lot, especially when he guards her while he does her magic thing in battle. ;)
the Za Lord's Guard in their winter-branded uniforms of toothpaste tubes and coke cans were adorable in general
LOL, this! I never thought I'd think of the Coke bear, or toothpaste, as badass.
I agree that Molly needed to get over her crush on Harry, like, three books ago. (Come back, Carlos!) XP Definitely not looking forward to the inevitable conversation with the Carpenters. By this point, it seems to be just drama/angst for drama's/angst's sake (as well as, of course, everything you mention, especially giving Harry yet another chance to be all chivalrous and turn her down)
totally side-eyeing Butters and Andi.
I was more "...huh?" than *sideye*, but I agree that this ship doesn't quite work (even aside from me being all protective over Butters/Molly Hooper). Like, I can't recall them ever having had a conversation, or interacting in anything more than a group setting.
female werewoves are apparently still not allowed to do anything more useful than be victims (lampshading it with "danger-prone Daphne" does not actually make it better, no).
Ooh! One point I forgot to make in my review was that I was REALLY tempted to write a srs bznz literary analysis-style paper on feminism in the Dresden Files. Like, fetishizing and/or demonizing powerful women is still fetishizing and/or demonizing, but then again Thomas gets his share of storm-grey eyes and rippling abs, but then again he's pretty much the only example of that (well, maybe plus Kincaid), so it's still pretty unbalanced, and men are generally described as powerful = sexy, while women are generally described as vulerable = sexy (see: Sarissa at Harry's birthday party). And powerful women are demonized, but then again so are powerful men (see: Papa Raith, Morgan, the Merlin). And Harry's attitude in general quite often seems to be more self-congratulatory than anything, like when he's being all Right and Noble in turning down Molly and making that speech about how he's totally okay with teh gayz (but still slips in a little moralizing), and, and and. But *then* there are genuinely kickass women, like Lacuna (agreed that Toot-toot's wooing is going to be HI-larious) and Murphy (well, the old Murphy, anyway) and Lea, who can take care of themselves and don't need Harry swooping in to rescue them ever five minutes (in fact, they probably rescue him more than he does them). Man, I could go on like this for a while, I haven't even touched on his stance towards sexuality in general (see: Maeve [cunning, powerful, and aggressively sexual (although I gotta admit, "vajazzled" did get a chuckle out of me)] versus Lily [sweet, demure, and kind of helpelss and dumb])! ...And stopping now. I mean it this time. XD
Harry's brain parasite -- is Lash involved in some way (in keeping it at bay, e.g.?).
Interesting, I hadn't thought of that! I wouldn't mind seeing some more of her, especially since it's been awhile since we checked in with that side of things, and a sort of wizardly version of the Discworld witches' Third Thoughts might be especially helpful now.
In that vein, what do you think happened to Mother Winter's missing stick? It seemed ominous that it's apparently been lost/stolen...
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I've been thinking about this some more, and I really do think it was way less Thomas saying, "Waah, Harry, you think I'd be better off dead" and more Thomas saying, "So, Harry, by your logic, should I just off myself, too?", knowing Harry would, of course, vehemently disagree with that and thus underlining the flaw in Harry's logic. Kind of similar to Murphy pointing out to Harry that her father always said "later" about spending time with her, when Harry is dithering over going to see Maggie. So, that's why it works for me, which is not to say that it should work for you or everyone.
even aside from me being all protective over Butters/Molly Hooper
Molly Hooper/Butters is the best Butters ship, it is known. There needs to be crossover fic of this. Harry and Sherlock can come too, looming over people in their long coats, and Murphy and John can bond over being tiny but fierce surrounded by nutcases.
I was REALLY tempted to write a srs bznz literary analysis-style paper on feminism in the Dresden Files
I would read the hell out of that. Especially if it was written by somebody who was a fan of the series (while being aware of its flaws) and willing to give some credit where credit is due, and not, like, those types of people who think Mal is oppressing Zoe because she calls him "Sir". Because I have my impressions, but it would be really neat to see a full-blown analysis -- there's certainly plenty of material. On the one hand, you have powerful (yet somewhat sympathetic) females like the Queens and Lara, and badasses like Murphy, and wonderfully grey characters like Molly. On the other hand you have villains like Maeve, and female "comrades" who seem to be liabilities more than anything, like Georgia and Andi. And it would be really interesting to try to tease out what hinkiness is due to Harry the unreliably narrator's "chivalry" and stuff, and what's actually down to Butcher himself, either obliviousness or intentional fanservice. (I have similar though less extensive wonderings about the Kingkiller Chronicles, incidentally.)
Thomas gets his share of storm-grey eyes and rippling abs, but then again he's pretty much the only example of that (well, maybe plus Kincaid)
Yeah, there's definitely a disparity. And part of it is that it's all Harry's POV, of course, and he is much more interested in hot ladies than in what other males look like. And Thomas does get oggled by women plenty. But it stacks up for an overall unbalanced feel, even if it's perfectly explicable in-universe.
and making that speech about how he's totally okay with teh gayz (but still slips in a little moralizing),
Heh, that speech -- so random! It really felt like Butcher being all, "No, but look, Harry and I are totally progressive despite all the 'hyuk hyuk people think Thomas is gay not that there's anything wrong with that' jokes".
although I gotta admit, "vajazzled" did get a chuckle out of me
Oh, I meant to mention it in my write-up and totally forgot. I suspect this may be the first instance of "vajazzled" being used in (non-erotic) SFF, which ought to count for somethin. It got a shocked kind of giggle out of me, too.
and a sort of wizardly version of the Discworld witches' Third Thoughts might be especially helpful now
I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right, it would be similar, and it would be handy!
what do you think happened to Mother Winter's missing stick? It seemed ominous that it's apparently been lost/stolen...
You know, I totally forgot about that in the pile-up of massive things of changiness that was the last fifth. Huh, can't say as I have any ideas... What are your thoughts/what have you seen speculated about it?
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Oh, okay! I was really focused on the "waah, you think I'm a monster, poor me" taking-it-way-too-personally aspect, because that seemed kind of odd for Thomas, but this makes a lot more sense. I finally get it! XD
Harry and Sherlock can come too, looming over people in their long coats, and Murphy and John can bond over being tiny but fierce surrounded by nutcases.
YES to all of this! I would pay good money to see Harry getting annoyed and hexing Sherlock's phone, and John inevitably hitting on, possibly getting hit by, and then being tiny but fierce BFFs with Murphy.
But it stacks up for an overall unbalanced feel, even if it's perfectly explicable in-universe.
Exactly what I'm talking about! There's a lot of material to wade through, but it would be iiiiinteresting (if time-consuming) to wade through and try to parse out which bits are Harry the character, and which are Harry the author avatar. Because there are some very clear cases of Harry just being a dummy and underestimating women because he (subconsciously) defaults to seeing them as vulnerable damsels rather than people with the capability to kick his ass, but then there is some genuine, as you so perfectly put it, hinkiness.
It really felt like Butcher being all, "No, but look, Harry and I are totally progressive despite all the 'hyuk hyuk people think Thomas is gay not that there's anything wrong with that' jokes".
Heh, maybe it was to address fallout from...White Night, was it? Wherever Harry pretended to be Thomas' boyfriend in order to get into his apartment, anyway.
I totally forgot about that in the pile-up of massive things of changiness that was the last fifth.
Yeah, that's actually what made it stick out to me. Like, I kind of feel it was intentionally buried under the flurry of other revelations, so it can simmer for a while and suddenly leap into prominence in a book or two? I've seen speculation that it's actually the Blackstaff, which would be interesting, but the way things are shaking out, it's probably going to be another case of "Nemesis did it for Reasons." :P
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Haha, Sherlock's phone is so going down in this scenario XD And a meeting between John and Murphy would play out exactly this way!
Wherever Harry pretended to be Thomas' boyfriend in order to get into his apartment
Yep. I forget the exact book, but that's precisely what I was thinking, too.
Like, I kind of feel it was intentionally buried under the flurry of other revelations, so it can simmer for a while and suddenly leap into prominence in a book or two
Ooh, interesting! That would be very consistent with Butcher's MO, so I could totally see that be the case. The Blackstaff speculation is also very interesting! I feel like I've seen that somewhere too, now that you mention it.
it's probably going to be another case of "Nemesis did it for Reasons."
Aaand with that you've basically perfectly summarized my frustration with the whole Nemesis thing and what it means for the series overall XP
BTW! I confirmed with my parents that, whenever my father's birthday will be celebrated, it won't be the 18th, so the docket is clear for geekery + pub food at Parkside :) (assuming nothing has changed on your end)
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Yeah, it struck me as the kind of thing he would do, similar to the way he built up, say, Lash, or the Black Council. And I can't actually take credit for the Blackstaff theory - I got it off of an IRL friend, but she says she caught it floating around tumblr, so maybe you were linked to/came across it there?
my frustration with the whole Nemesis thing and what it means for the series overall XP
I'm reeeeeally hoping they develop some sort of goal/motivation beyond "for teh evulz" and/or "because Cthulu."
the docket is clear for geekery + pub food at Parkside :)
Huzzah! :D There actually has been a slight change of plans on my end, so I'll be getting back on the 18th itself, but I should still easily be able to make it on time for geekery + pub food - is the usual time still okay?
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I'm sort of embarrassed not to have noticed it myself, in retrospect, but I recently read a review of Cold Days which pointed out that the introduction of Nemesis seems to be leading this series into the same... riverbed (sorry, I was just talking to Kay about books, and my vocabulary is all jumbled between languages -- the Russian word for "riverbed", "ruslo" would sound a lot less odd here) -- anyway, into the same riverbed as Butcher's other series, Codex Alera (this is the "Roman Empire + Pokemon" one that I think I've mentioned to you), where the main threat ends up being an alien hivelike lifeform agents of which take over people without anyone noticing (like Yeerks, only with way less individualism), and who stand poised to destroy the entire world and everything in it. That review advised Butcher to get a new schtick, which I kind of have to concur with, but we'll see -- maybe there will be a new take on this idea. *fingers crossed*
but I should still easily be able to make it on time for geekery + pub food - is the usual time still okay?
Yay!!! Is your usual time 6 or 6:30, I forget? Either one ought to be OK on my end, anyhow :)
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No, actually, that's a very apt analogy; it makes sense in either language. And, my interest in code-switching and the process of vocabulary/word choice for bilingual/multilingual folks - let me show you it!
maybe there will be a new take on this idea. *fingers crossed*
Same. Like, I'm reasonably sure he's too smart to exactly duplicate a twist that big, especially when he knows people will be on the lookout for it, but...*fingers crossed* indeed.
Is your usual time 6 or 6:30, I forget?
6, I think. And I promise I'll actually be on time this time! XD
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Like, I'm reasonably sure he's too smart to exactly duplicate a twist that big,
Unless he doesn't realize he is replaying it. Which seems crazy having realized how similar the threads seem to be, but they start out in really different places, and the exact nature of the threat is different enough that maybe he doesn't know he's doing it. XP
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