Reading roundup (including Cold Days)

[hamsterwoman]

Catching up on the last of 2012 and starting off 2013:

45. Elizabeth Bear, Range of Ghosts -- The beginning of an epic fantasy trilogy set in Central Asia (in 12th-13th century, apparently;

Comments

[firebluespinel]

So...you are way more critical of books than I am. For serious, lol. Like, pretty much everything that bothered you in some way or other, I was like "oh, okay, that's how that is. good to know." and kept reading. *laughs* I'm not sure if this is because I'm male, or just easier to please than you, or something else. But really...Murphy didn't bother me at all, for instance. She was a badass before, she's a different kind of badass now. She stood up to Harry in ways she's never done before, did you notice? About the Swords. And I think the avenging angel is still there--it's been shaken pretty hard, but I think Murphy is rebuilding herself. Maybe she's not exactly what she used to be, but I don't think her core of holy iron is broken or anything. Molly's crush has gotten a bit old, but I think this book handled it really well--she and Harry had a mature, adult conversation about it, and he told her it's not going to happen for mature, adult reasons, not just because of the apprentice/master dynamic or the age difference. That was fine with me, and it wouldn't surprise me if that was the last we heard of the crush. Butters/Andi was a little weird but hey, I like the hot badass girl/nerd trope, and Andi kicked Harry's ass the second she appeared, and I don't think there needs to be a depiction of how everything happens to make it okay to happen, you know?

Come to think of it, I think that was one of the biggest points of this story, that THINGS HAVE CHANGED while Harry was gone. I understand your feelings on the first 4/5 of the book, but I feel most of it was totally necessary and worthwhile. The world of Harry Dresden, Winter Knight, is a radically different world than the world of Harry Dresden, Wizard for Hire, or even Harry Dresden, Warden of Chicago. Not only has he been out of the picture for months and thus lost track of pretty much everything and everyone even since Ghost Story, Harry's now party to a lot of things he had neither the right nor the ability to even know to ASK about before now. This book needed all that worldbuilding because for Harry, the world itself is both a lot different and a lot bigger, and it makes total sense to me that he would take almost the whole book to come to grips with that by assessing his contacts, gathering information, and figuring out just what he can and can't do. And because this is Harry we're talking about, of course not all of that is going to run smoothly. ;)

I also look at Nemesis a bit differently than you do. I don't think tying Harry's early cases to it makes the world seem flat as much as they provide a reason that Harry has been moving on the path he's been on--both in terms of the ungodly amount of power he's amassed and in terms of what he's learned from each case. It's a fairly classic quest motif, just spun out over 14 books, and at the end of a quest there is always one villain. Moreover, behind every real-life act of evil is usually one person as well. Follow the most complex conspiracies far enough, it always comes back to one mastermind. I can see why Nemesis would seem like a cop-out, especially with all the fuss about the Black Council recently, but I think it works--and, since Harry as Winter Knight is probably no longer a member of the White Council (which, I presume, is why Ebenezar and Carlos don't make an appearance in this book), it means Harry doesn't need Council access or protocols to explore that lead. Same with the Fae lying--how else do you show that something is REALLY FREAKING POWERFUL than by allowing it to warp the very fabric of the rules everyone else lives by? I liked that.

[firebluespinel]

What seemed like more of a cop-out to me was the parasite. Lash aside, putting a character on a time-bomb is shallow and unjustified to me. Harry's ALWAYS on a limited schedule. It's a central feature of every book: he perpetually has to get things done unrealistically quickly before someone else dies or all hell breaks loose. Hell, this book itself took place within 24 hours, possibly less, because it had a deadline of dawn the freaking next day. The series does NOT need another aspect of time running out. I was also not too sure about the Outsiders...it made sense that they were more powerful than most of what Harry's ever seen or fought, but the whole outside army being fought off by Winter thing didn't sit as well with me. I think I just envisioned Outsiders as being a lot more alien, if that makes sense. Beings beyond mortal comprehension, things with too many dimensions for us to look at without going mad, that kind of thing. Not just more powerful versions of the kinds of things we've already seen. *shrug*

Okay, all that being said, I liked pretty much everything else you liked. The Gatekeeper was great, I've been wanting to learn more about him for a while now. The Thomas-Harry interactions in particular. While the Thomas scene in Ghost Story didn't bother me as much as it did you, the fact that that was Thomas' ONLY appearance in the book did bother me a lot. I was really relieved and excited that Cold Days brought the brothers back together--and I loved that they really acted like brothers, both in their anger and their banter. And Molly as Winter Lady could totally crush on Thomas without worrying about him eating her (though I still like Molly/Carlos myself). All the little awesome references, too...Princess Bride and Pratchett for sure, but you left out Army of Darkness ("primitive screwheads") and Firefly! I almost dropped the book when Bob made the Firefly reference...and Harry didn't get it. PERFECTION. Oh, but my favorite part had to have been Molly's One-Woman Queen Concert! Harry was all like wait, I know this song, and I was all like OH MY GOD FUCK YES I CAN'T EVEN BELIEVE HOW AWESOME THIS IS. *dies*

TL;DR - I loved the book, like I love all Dresden books. XD

[hamsterwoman]

Heh, I'm not sure I tend to be more critical about books or just bimodal, in that there's a squee threshold where, if a book falls beyond it, I tend to be totally forgiving of any flaws (this happens with Vorkosigan books, mostly, at least when Miles is driving the plot, and may even happen with Discworld, except, what flaws?), but if the book does not reach the squee threshold, then I notice I tend to focus mostly on things that didn't work as well for me in my write-ups, even if my overall impression of the book is positive (as it was with Cold Days, which might not have been clear from the write-up).

And I think the avenging angel is still there--it's been shaken pretty hard, but I think Murphy is rebuilding herself. Maybe she's not exactly what she used to be, but I don't think her core of holy iron is broken or anything

I'm definitely willing to wait and see if that's the case. So far, I don't think I like what Murphy has become as much as I liked what she was before (which was a whole lot), but I do think it's plausible that she would change as a result of everything she's been through. She might even end up changing into something I like just as much, and if not, that's OK. I tend to like the younger, less battle-worn versions of characters better than their older-but-wiser counterparts in long-running series, anyway, so it wouldn't be a surprise. It just very definitely felt like a change to me, and made me go "huh", but I don't think it's a flaw in the book necessarily so much as something that doesn't appeal to me personally.

but I think this book handled it really well--she and Harry had a mature, adult conversation about it, and he told her it's not going to happen for mature, adult reasons

I actually do agree with that -- the way the crush is being handled I have no complaints with (and if it's the last time it comes up, I will be very happy). My complaint is just that it's still around at all, because I don't think it's adding anything at this point.

I like the hot badass girl/nerd trope

See, the thing is, I do too! Zoe/Wash, Adora Belle/Moist, probably a bunch of other examples I'm forgettin, but I never doubted the attraction between those couples, whereas Butters/Andi just feels totally random to me. And the "danger-prone Daphne thing" may not have bothered me as much if Side Jobs hadn't left a bad taste in my mouth about the female werewolves being useful for anything except looking hot in various states of undress and vulnerability. But, ah well, I think Butcher is just better at writing novels than short stories is part of the problem.

I understand your feelings on the first 4/5 of the book, but I feel most of it was totally necessary and worthwhile.

I don't disagree with that at all! I think it worked, and I think the payoff was worth the setup. I didn't enjoy the setup, but I do think it was well done. A lot of my favorite series have a transitional book like this that isn't fun but is necessary (Teckla in the Vlad Taltos books, Tongues of Serpents in Temeraire). I think there is probably a way to write a book like that that's still gripping (to me) and... something while reading it -- I didn't think Memory was exactly "fun" either, but there was enough going on beyond Simon's heartbreaking situation and Miles's career imploding, or maybe it was just the pacing that made it seem like that -- but maybe not in all cases. I don't have a problem with the structure of Cold Days, basically. I wasn't having fun at first, but then I was, and I'm satisfied with the trajectory overall.

part 2

[hamsterwoman]

they provide a reason that Harry has been moving on the path he's been on--both in terms of the ungodly amount of power he's amassed and in terms of what he's learned from each case. It's a fairly classic quest motif,

I do think it works as a handy explanation in-universe for why Harry is at the center of all these things, has been the fulcrum so many times, but on a meta level I still find it kind of lame. Like, it explains/justifies something that I didn't feel required justification (of course Harry has had all this stuff happen to him and has been amassing power -- he's the hero :), but it ties everything up too neatly. I never thought the books needed a central villain -- in fact, I always liked the profusion of antagonists with different agendas who sometimes coul become temporary or more-than-temporary allies (Marcone, Lara, Winter Court fae). I guess that's being turned into "everyone against the outsiders" kind of deal, but that's less interesting to me. Or it's possible that I'm losing patience for classic quest motifs :P

(I'm not sure if you've read Butcher's other series, Codex Alera? I didn't twig onto it myself, but a Cold Days review I read today pointed out that, with Nemesis and the Outsiders it seems like the series is going to follow the same sort of scheme as the (completed) Codex Alera did, and, yeah, I can kind of see that.)

Same with the Fae lying--how else do you show that something is REALLY FREAKING POWERFUL than by allowing it to warp the very fabric of the rules everyone else lives by?

Mmm, I didn't think of it that way, and that's a fair point. And, as Harry's own power grows, it makes sense that limitations around his antagonists probably need to be loosened to keep things interesting. But, eh, I don't know, it still feels like a writerly copout to me. Maybe just the way it's set up? It's certainly a very effective, uh, effect for Nemesis to have, in suborning the non-infected Fae to its cause, like Maeve was able to do with Lily, and it allows the last-minute revelations (which I liked a whole lot), but I think I would have felt more impressed if Nemesis (and Butcher) had managed to pull it off without creating a loophole, essentially.

The series does NOT need another aspect of time running out.

Heh, I hadn't thought of that either, but you're correct, of course, in the "ticking clock" already being amply represented. Maybe the overall time pressure Butcher's put in has something to do with Maggie? There was an awful lot of advice about not waiting for the "right time" to forge a relationship with her because time might run out -- and the brain parasite thing creates time pressure that's still there even once the urgent crisis du jour is solved. Hm...

I think I just envisioned Outsiders as being a lot more alien, if that makes sense. Beings beyond mortal comprehension, things with too many dimensions for us to look at without going mad, that kind of thing.

I actually completely agree with this (but am not sure how this can be done while still having them be something that Harry et al can physically fight. I kind of feel like the series peaked with the early visions of the skinwalker when it comes to mind-blowingly powerful alien presences, and the Outsiders did not live up to that. They didn't even live up to He Who Walks Behind from the short story on closer contact, which was a pity. But I think it's probably just familiarity breeds contempt, and it's hard to have a recurring villain that remains scary as you get to know him/it.

and I loved that they really acted like brothers, both in their anger and their banter

Absolutely! Those were definitely my favorite happy bits throughout the book.

...and the little bit that didn't fit

[hamsterwoman]

though I still like Molly/Carlos myself

I like Molly/Carlos also :) Thomas/Molly appeals to me more, but I would be quite happy with Molly/Carlos (if Butcher doesn't screw it up). Especially as it would mean more Carlos ;)

I missed the Army of Darkness reference (I still don't actually know what Army of Darkness is XP), but, yes, Firefly! I was very surprised that Harry did not recognize that reference. I guess Bob's been watching at Waldo's? :) And Molly's "We Will Rock You" thing was great, too! I actually really love her use of magic.

P.S. and totally unrelated -- I was managing some mod access requests and notice you still have mod access to tourneyohand -- could you remove yourself? (I think you're good everywhere else)