Reading roundup

[hamsterwoman]

Still on a reading kick, as a means of not thinking about all the other crap.

24. Cinda Williams Chima, The Warrior Heir -- This was a random YA book I picked up just because I felt like some YA fantasy, and I was actually pleasantly surprised (although, admittedly, my expectations going in were pretty low).

Comments

[_grayswandir_]

He is just so awesome, and I mean that in every possible way.

Yes, oh my god. Stretching and yawning and smoking -- with his crimson cloak and his boots the color of blood; with his death-gaze and his blind, conflicted worship of his anima-goddess Kali. That guy absolutely made the book. His passion for destruction and technology, and the confusion that attended his strange history of having been old before he was young. He was well defined, but not too closely explored, so that I always wanted more of him. And what a lovely enigma of morality, too, with a taste for slaughter and godship, and yet also an unlikely, poisonous regard for chivalry. I love your comment about the irony of Death bringing vitality to the book; I hadn't thought of it that way, but yes. Weirdly, yes, he does.

He is the only one of the gods, other than Kubera, who seems to care about other people at all in ways that are not exclusively self-serving. When he kills […] he shows clearly -- not remorse, and sadness is too vague, but a definite sense that

[hamsterwoman]

I thought it seemed sort of like the movie version of a really great novel, with a lot of the interesting details sacrificed to make room for battle and dialogue.

That's a good way of putting it... It certainly didn't feel whole, and actually I could've used less description of fighting and battles and gods assuming their Aspects, too.

It took me a while to figure it out (I kept trying to work out why Yama was against Sam all of a sudden...),

Yeah, me too. I didn't actually figure out we were in flashback mode until Sam's conversation with Yama, which makes it pretty clear we're in a timeframe from before the first chapter. And then I had to go back to chapter 2 and skim over that again to realign my understanding of what was going on. I thought I had just missed the cue ('Sam remembered') at the end of chapter 1, but if it's not just me then I guess it's deliberate...

I thought it was good to parallel the two great battles back to back in the last two chapters -- the first, quite epic, which was the real turning point in the

[hamsterwoman]

I'm always amused by Zelazny's rampant, unrepentant, almost absentminded chauvinismGod, yes... X-| That was pretty hard to miss, although, I suppose, it kind of fits within the conventions of the genre. But, yeah, limping Kali being led along by Yama, self-hating Brahma, and largely-useless, moping Ratri who gets dragged along for the ride. Does Zelazny have *any* interesting women who are not total psychos? Other than possibly Fiona (who is at least definitely less psycho than her brother

[hamsterwoman]

I wonder if we've read any of the same ones?

I believe the short story collection I read was Frost and Fire. And Roadmarks -- I think it's the one you mentioned, except, uh, I don't remember much from except some very brief episodes and the fact that what's-his-name, the protagonist, had a talking book, Flowers of Evil. Or Leaves of Grass. Or both, maybe. It's been awhile... There's a dragon on the cover?

I'm pretty sure I've never read Doorways in the Sand... but can't for the life of me remember which was the other book I read.

And, um, wow, I hadn't realized how much I wanted to talk about this book. Er, apologies for the gigantic novel-length comments here...

LOL, definitely no need to apologize! I really wanted to talk about this book, too :D

Although I must say, LJ's doing something weird with comment notifications for me, so I only got one of the three comments (the last one), and I was like, hey, that's not such a long comment -- and then I realized that was only 1/3... :) And was really happy that there was more Lord

[_grayswandir_]

And then I had to go back to chapter 2 and skim over that again to realign my understanding of what was going on. I thought I had just missed the cue ('Sam remembered') at the end of chapter 1

*looks* Oh, hey, there is a transition. Heh, that's what I get for not going back and rereading. It didn't feel much like Sam "remembering," though -- the whole thing is written from a pretty omniscient viewpoint. Maybe Zelazny thought it would be more obvious than it was, but after only one chapter, we weren't really enough acquainted with the universe to judge what relative time period we were in from the setting.

I totally noticed that too! Pretty much exactly 40 pages in my paperback, and I was like... OK, presumably that's deliberate... does it mean something?

I'm sure it means something, and of course seven is a pretty standard number for religious/mythological contexts, and might have a lot of different meanings. The forty-page thing may have just been what was convenient. I think forty is a number of "separation," or something

[_grayswandir_]

Does Zelazny have *any* interesting women who are not total psychos?

Heh, not that I can think of. I guess Fiona is all right, since, while psycho, she comes from a whole family of psychos, so it's not actually something to be blamed on her gender. She is extremely vain and femininely manipulative, though. That little scene at the council in Sign of the Unicorn, where she drops her bracelet on purpose, and Corwin moves to pick it up, but Julian gets there first, and she bats her eyelashes at him and then starts flirting with Corwin again. But at least she seemed to use her charms simply because they were a convenient weapon, a nice complement to being magical and ruthless, rather than because they were all she had.

I did like Agni, kind of, both for his Aspect/power and UV vision and things, and for the way he meets his end, trying to fill a role he is not made forYeah, I liked Agni the best, out of the "bad guys." He didn't have much personality, apart from being rather justifiably arrogant; in the main, he was all Aspect

[_grayswandir_]

There's a dragon on the cover?

Agh, I have no idea. The one I'm thinking of had, I'm pretty sure, a road on the cover... but I read it back when I was fifteen, and I really don't remember. The main character had a beard, and I think his name was... Red? Or something? And... there was this road, the walking of which represented one's life, or something (I guess sort of like the way the Amberverse is a manifestation of the Pattern?), so whenever you made a choice in the real world, you were taking a new (literal) path, or... I don't know. I liked the premise, but I was like, wait, how do you write a story about this?

Doorways in the Sand is just insane. It's probably worth a read, if you get bored, because I think it's pretty short, and there are some fun parts. It's about this guy whose... uncle, I think?... died and left him, in his will, money to continue college for however long it takes him to graduate. So the kid just keeps on taking classes that won't actually earn him a degree, like Advanced Basketweaving or whatever

[hamsterwoman]

It didn't feel much like Sam "remembering," though -- the whole thing is written from a pretty omniscient viewpoint.

That is very true... I kind of doubt Sam would think of himself as "the young prince". So I can only surmise that the transition is meant to be both there and to be misleading... Wonder why. Perhaps to make the reader feel as adrift in time as I guess Sam must be feeling? Well, and maintain suspense, I guess, until you figure out you're in flashback which you already know how it ends...

I wonder if 7 has the same significance in Hinduism / Buddhism as it does in Western superstition?

But then he's so genuinely powerful, binding demons, withstanding Yama's deathgaze with only a little discomfort, and so on. So it wasn't all just PR. He actually did have unusual abilities, greater than most of the gods, it appered.Hmmm, that's true... He does seem to have a very fortunate special power, more versatile than that of just about any other god in how he can apply it. But Yama is at least as powerful, if in a somewhat more

[hamsterwoman]

It was maybe a little too convenient, as a plot device, to make Yama the only creator of, like, anything, but somehow that didn't bother me, and I actually thought it was pretty funny how the gods suddenly couldn't trust their own machinery once Yama turned on them.It was convenient but not unbelievable, I thought. Because the other gods seem to regard his genius for technology as a lesser talent just because it doesn't involve fireworks and direct destruction, an occupation which is beneath them -- somebody, I can't remember who -- Ganesha, I think, in the conversation where they're trying to select a replacement Brahma -- dismisses him as "too serious, too conscientous -- a technician". Which is of course ironic, since they're all so dependent on his gadgets for the really powerful manifestations of their godhood

[_grayswandir_]

I can also see what you mean by coparing Brahma to Eric -- someone who is nominally in charge but feels, not exactly inadequate, but suffers from "impostor syndrome" or something -- Brahma due to her gender and Eric due to his illegitimate status, presumably.Yeah, exactly. I think it also has to do with Sam/Corwin's attitude of casual superiority toward Brahma/Eric, despite not being in a position of power at all. Brahma isn't quite secure, and Sam knows it and uses it to set him off balance. Nice analyses for the other characters -- and Kubera as Gerard makes sense; he's loyal, but he's sort of too nice of a guy to be as useful as he could be to Sam, because he still has friends on the other side, too. Well, he did at first, anyway

[_grayswandir_]

It was convenient but not unbelievable, I thought. Because the other gods seem to regard his genius for technology as a lesser talent just because it doesn't involve fireworks and direct destruction, an occupation which is beneath them

Yeah, and the fact that he never seemed interested in becoming a part of Trimurti anyway made him feel like something of a non-player. Like you said, useful but not a peer and not a threat. He was just this guy running things from behind the scenes, and everybody took him for granted, including his wife, until he finally just said screw it.

That was a neat little subplot, actually. Almost every time they met, Sam would say something to Yama about how he couldn't understand why Yama was letting his inferiors order him around and make a henchman out of him, and sort of laughing about how Kali had him whipped. I guess Yama finally decided Sam respected him more than the gods did, and decided to go someplace where he was appreciated.

Heh. Sam was a tricky bastard, wasn't he?

They seem to all

[hamsterwoman]

I think it also has to do with Sam/Corwin's attitude of casual superiority toward Brahma/Eric, despite not being in a position of power at all. Brahma isn't quite secure, and Sam knows it and uses it to set him off balance.

That's right! It works better in Amber, I think, because you get Corwin's POV and Corwin's actually *scared* of Eric, at first, so you know he's bluffing successfully, rather than just being casually superior for real. Yama as Benedict -- there are definite similarities, the powerful-yet-not-ambitious thing you mention, but, yeah, it's far from exact -- Benedict is universally revered while Yama is almost-universally underestimated, and, I know Benedict's bloodlessness, levelheadedness, coolness is supposed to be partially Corwin's perception, but even taking that into account Yama is a much more vibrant figure, again, for all that he is Death.

another thing that makes Yama feel more whole and concrete than the other characters is, I think, that he gets a lot more physical description, so it feels as though he

[_grayswandir_]

It is totally ridiculous for me to come back and leave more comments to this gigantic thread three years later, but --

That was lovely! And I think it's that aspect of their relationship, plus something about Yama being Sam's charioteer, that reminds me of something big, but I still can't remember what it is.

Now that I actually know something about Hinduism, I think I may have figured out what you were talking about. I'm guessing you were referring to the Baghavad Gita, with Krishna, in the role of charioteer, urging Arjuna into battle against his cousins (in the name of duty -- dharma -- no less). Yes? It's a little strange since, of course, in Lord of Light, Krishna himself is one of those "cousins"; but I think one could make the argument that Krishna's role in the Baghavad Gita is dharmic, so that Yama in that aspect suits the part...

...Right. Leaving now. XD

[hamsterwoman]

I keep meaning to mention and keep forgetting: I keep wondering about Yama's parentage. It's mentioned (a couple of times, I think) that he is a third-generation mixed-breed or something like that, and I wasn't exactly sure how to understand it. Is he supposed to be related to any of the First we see? And then I was looking the Hindu deity up on Wikipedia, and apparently Yama in Hinduism, "In Vedic tradition [...] was considered to have been the first mortal who died and espied the way to the celestial abodes, and in virtue of precedence he became the ruler of the departed." Not that this ties in directly with anything in the novel, but that's an odd sort of parentage for a god, and I wonder if the fact that Yama's parentage is drawn attention to (vaguely) a couple of times has anything to do with that...

[_grayswandir_]

I know Benedict's bloodlessness, levelheadedness, coolness is supposed to be partially Corwin's perception, but even taking that into account Yama is a much more vibrant figure, again, for all that he is Death.

Yeah, I think that's the main difference; Benedict is rather stony. Yama's vibrancy makes him seem more like the Amberites, in general, than any of the other characters in Lord of Light do, but it still doesn't make him resemble any particular Amberite.

I'm not sure other characters even *get* physical description -- there are references to strong bodies, Kubera's fat, Krishna's (I think) dark skin and so on, but specific details -- not so much.

Okay, so, being as I'm insane, I went back and looked through the whole book for references to Yama's physical appearance. I actually only found them in the first chapter and the third (the one with Rild). The first chapter is where he has the scar. We get: "Tall, but not overly so; big, but not heavy; his movements, slow and fluid. He wore red and spoke little

[_grayswandir_]

So that Yama's "pure" technology is less well regarded than "magic" but is actually superior to it.

Yeah, it seems to be -- and Yama specifically says to Sam, "I can design machines more powerful and more accurate than any faculty a man may cultivate." So, pretty confident about his technology, then.

Which -- incidentally, I made a note of all the things he created: the thunder chariot; the psych-probe; Agni's fire-wand; Rudra's bow; Shiva's trident; Tak's Bright Spear; the Gehenna Gun (which apparently fibrillates things apart); the Electrosword (a passing mention); the Fountain shield (which sprays cyanide and dimethyl sulfoxide); the pray machine (that brings Sam's atman back); the unfinished chariot he drives in the final battle; and... demon repellent. Heh. And that little explodey box that transfers him to a new body from prison. And, presumably, his cloak, which he keeps using to shield himself from Taraka