Interview with Suzanne Swift
http://www.olywip.org/site/page/article/2008/10/06.html
Recently, I had the honor of interviewing war resister and military sexual assault survivor Spc. Suzanne Swift. During her deployment to Iraq in 2004, Suzanne was violently coerced into a sexual relationship by her superior officer, and was subjected to public humiliation and retribution when she filed a grievance while in Iraq. She is currently serving out the remainder of her enlistment, after the military refused to grant her a medical discharge or punish the perpetrator. You can read more about her case at www.suzanneswift.org.
But the focus of this interview is not to recount the same Suzanne Swift story that has been told so many times before. While many accounts stop with the court case, that’s where this update starts. Where is Suzanne Swift now? Were any of her demands met? Is she still in the military? What has it been like being a poster-woman for military sexual assault survivors? The purpose here is to address all these other unanswered questions, both to complete the story for the public record, and as a gift to all those who see Suzanne Swift as the inspiration she is.
So, a lot of people are familiar with the background of your story, and if they aren't, there are already several interviews of you and of your mother Sara Rich. So I'm going to start with the last thing most folks remember about you, which was the deal you and your lawyer made with the Army to end their case against you for going AWOL. Could you tell us about the terms of the deal, why you chose to agree to the deal, and also if there were any conditions or stipulations you refused to go along with?
Suzanne Swift: Well, they started out charging me with a Special Court Martial, which is a type of Court Martial they have. The penalty for that carries reduction to the lowest pay grade, a year's confinement, forfeiture of all pay and a bad conduct discharge, which leaves you with almost no benefits. That's what they were going for, and no matter how great a lawyer I had, I was going to be guilty and I was going to get whatever they were giving me. So my lawyer was really pushing for a deal where I would plead guilty to the charges of missing movement and AWOL, but not desertion, and would stipulate the things we all took for granted, that we agreed to be true. Such as, I didn't deploy with my unit when I agreed to. Stuff like that. And my lawyer, whenever he explained it to me, said it was just a slap on the wrist, probably no jail time, and maybe a reduction of one rank. That was pretty much it. I got the first draft, but what they really wanted me to sign was a stipulation of fact of all this other stuff.
[For this interview, I was provided with a copy of the original military-proposed stipulation. Among many mischaracterizations, the stipulation said "During her deployment, the accused also claimed to have engaged in a consensual sexual relationship with her squad leader," while refusing to confirm that any sexual encounters happened. Suzanne has maintained all along that it was coerced and non-consensual. If it really was reliant solely on Suzanne's claims, shouldn't they at least make their depiction representative of those claims? The stipulation implies joint-culpability by suggesting any sexual relations would violate the Army fraternization policy. When addressing sexually harassing things Suzanne's superiors had said, the stipulation paraphrases four and five word quotes instead of directly quoting them, even when they concede one of these incidents (the "In my bed, naked" incident, or as they put it, the "'Naked in my bed' or words to that effect" incident) in fact happened. The guilty party in this incident, according to the stipulation, "received a letter of admonishment from the Commander" as punishment, while the stipulation later suggests, "Had any of the accused's claims in Iraq been substantiated, the noncommissioned officers involved would have likely faced adverse administrative action or disciplinary action under the Uniform Code of Military Justice." Finally, the stipulation suggests that by not taking the grievance further up the chain of command than she did, Suzanne "denied those leaders the opportunity to conduct a timely and comprehensive investigation into the matters."]
Suzanne: It basically said "Spc Swift claimed to blah blah blah" and "supposedly blah blah blah." It also said I "refused to deploy" which "directly hindered their ability to complete their dangerous wartime mission" - the "dangerous wartime mission" where not one soldier at any time fired a weapon or was fired on at all. I tried adding that. Actually, I wrote a lot of my own stuff right there on their stipulation. And I'd send it back to them, and they'd send it back to me. By the time we were done going back and forth, they were so pissed off.
I didn't want to be in the Army at all anymore. I'd tried doing things to get kicked out. I just wanted to be done with the Army. I really thought they were going to do it, but they weren't having it.
The statement I made would get approved all the way up to the base Colonel, and then it would get vetoed. The Colonel would veto every other chapter, every possible way. My options were to face the Special Court Martial, where I would most likely face a year in jail, or I could sign their stupid statement.
So, in December 2006, it went to a regular Court Martial. But my lawyer, when I kept refusing to take his deal which he thought was the greatest thing because it would make him look big, he basically abandoned me. He said "Whatever you want to do, it's going to cost you more money to be in a Special Court-Martial." Money was never really an issue. Yeah, we agreed to pay him, but the whole time he was never really stressed about it, until I started being a pain in his ass, and I didn't want to take his deal. He basically said "I can't represent you anymore," and asked for all the rest of the money right then. So my mom cussed him out. They basically abandoned us right at the end. Douchebags.
Aw, fuck them!
Suzanne: Yeah, right?
So the court-martial stopped halfway through when you eventually did take a deal. What did you end up with?
Suzanne: By the end they were so fed up with it, the deal was going to be no jail for a year, the option of either 30 days confinement or 60 days hard labor, a reduction in rank, and loss of pay for a month.
Lt. Colonel Catherine Koontz, who presided over the court-martial, listened very politely to everything I had to say about what happened and why I went AWOL. About halfway through, she understood what I was saying. She told me, "You're not sworn in, so I can't ask you any questions. I can swear you in, but if you're sworn in, you have to tell the truth." I had a military appointed lawyer at this point, so I checked with him, and he said "Yeah, if that's what you wanna do. It might help make you more believable."
So during the break, I saw my mom just bs-ing with the Lt. Colonel in the hall. I could hear her telling the Lt. Colonel about our legal expenses through all this with both our civilian lawyers. And they bs-ed for a while. So we come back, and the Colonel asked me a couple questions, and had me go through the whole story of what happened to me. I broke down crying a couple times while recalling it all. After that, we had to wait outside for an hour while she thought about what she wanted to do.
I got a reduction to E-1, the lowest pay grade, and 30 days confinement. This meant I would be in jail for Christmas, New Years, and the birth of my nephew, which they knew. But then the Lt. Colonel said "Your mom was telling me about your financial struggle through all this, so I'm not going to take away any money." All the testimony had no impact, but her bs-ing with my mom about how much it cost was the only part of anybody talking during any of it that made any difference at all. "Who cares what happened to you, but I feel bad for your mom, so I'm not going to take all of your money."
We appealed all the stuff. I had no problem doing jail time, and I accepted my punishment, but if I'm going to stay in the Army, I deserve at least some kind of rank. We also tried to get the jail sentence delayed so I could be there when my nephew was born. All of it denied immediately.
Afterward, out in the hall, the JAG attorney [military prosecutor] walked by while we were talking. My mom said to him, "I hope you have a merry fucking Christmas." These three soldiers saw the whole thing. They looked like they were thinking "That was rude," but they didn't say anything. Anyway, the JAG lawyer ignored her and just kept walking. Later on, he tried to press charges against my mom for saying that. He tried to get sworn statements from those three soldiers, but they wouldn't say anything other than "I heard her wish you a merry Christams."
So, are you still at the reduced rank today?
Suzanne: No, I'm actually an E-4 now. Back where it all began.
Did you have to pass all the promotion requirements and stuff all over again?
Suzanne: No, they waived them. It's the Army promotion system. In other branches, you have to pass tests and stuff each time you get promoted, but in the Army, you get automatically promoted at certain times, if you've been there long enough.
So you just did your time for promotion each time and got your rank back?
Suzanne: No, they waived the time requirement every time. Basically, the way it works is, each unit can give so many promotions, and can give so many waivers, and they have a list of people eligible for waivers. For instance, let's say they can promote three people from E-1 to E-2. Well, they look at the list. They'll say "This one's been a hard worker, so he gets a waiver. But this other one didn't pass his PT [physical test], so not him." They sit down and hammer out who deserves one and who doesn't.
And you got promoted every time it came around, or close to that?
Suzanne: It did all happen really fast, actually. I was an E-1 from the time of my court-martial in December '06 until, like September '07. In April [2008], I got back to E-4.
So let's rewind a little. Tell us about your time in jail. Where did they hold you?
Suzanne: I was held at Bangor Naval Base, I think was the name of it, north of Fort Lewis. The actual building was called Naval Brig Puget Sound. It was really small, and they all kind of knew what was going on and what happened.
Why did they hold you in a Navy facility when you're in the Army?
Suzanne: The Army jail at Fort Lewis doesn't have a facility for women. They used to, but they didn't have enough personnel and enough women going to jail there, so they just don't have it anymore. So it was either the one at Bangor, or they would have had to transfer me to Miramar in San Diego.
How were you treated there at Bangor?
Suzanne: They treated me good. They were all really cool there. I don't want to make it sound like they were unprofessional, but there was nothing I could say that was bad about that place at all, other than I was there at Christmas. They followed all their rules. Nobody was really an asshole. Even in their little handbook, their policy is to treat you with dignity, because your punishment isn't to be treated like shit; Your punishment is just to be there. Confinement is your punishment. They don't yell at you or make you do push-ups or any shit like that. Actually, they do have a place where they do that, in the same building. There, those people aren't incarcerated like I was, but it's like boot camp all over again for them. They smoke 'em there. But nobody where I was really did anything that serious.
So how long did you end up staying there?
Suzanne: I was sentenced to 30 days, but when I was arrested in June, I did three days in regular people jail while I was waiting for the Army to come get me, so I got that taken off my sentence, plus some more time for good behavior. I was only there for 23 days.
Where did the Army send you upon your release from jail?
Suzanne: Well, that's actually kind of a fun story too. When I told them I'd play their silly games and take their deal, I told them I didn't want to be at Fort Lewis anymore. Everyone there knows who I am, and I'm sure the Post General was totally sick of hearing my name. And I also told them I didn't want to be an MP [military police officer] anymore. So while I was still in jail, they brought a career counselor down, and he gave me a list of jobs I could look through. I could pick as many jobs as I wanted that I liked, and put them in order of preference. And I could pick as many duty stations as I wanted, and he'd try to get me the best combination of those things.
Uh-oh. I think I see where this is going.
Suzanne: No! It actually worked out really well. My first choice of duty station was Fort Irwin, because that way I'd stay on the West Coast with my family in Eugene. I told him that took precedence over my MOS ["military occupational specialty" - Army job]. So I got my first choice of duty station and my third choice of MOS, which was logistics.
Hey, not too shabby!
Suzanne: Yeah, it turned out pretty good.
Did the Army give you any leave time after your stay in jail to be home with your family?
Suzanne: Yeah, right when I got out of jail. They were actually really cool about that. They gave me a four-day weekend, and I got to hang out with the family.
Did you go to Fort Irwin directly?
Suzanne: No, I had to take a school for my new job, which was at Fort Lee in Virginia. But I had to stay at Fort Lewis until a spot opened up in the school. After the court-martial, I was such an asshole to them there. I would just leave and do my own thing. I'd go home in the middle of the day Thursday and not go to work Friday, and just spend a weekend at home with the fam. Or I'd skip work to go to the rallies and stuff for Ehren Watada.
Yeah, isn't there a photo somewhere of you, Ann Wright and Kelly Dougherty [of Iraq Veterans Against the War] attending Ehren Watada's court-martial?
Suzanne: Well, there's actually a funny story. What happened was, I had a friend who's an anti-war activist in Olympia, and he wanted to attend the trial but he couldn't get on post without a ride. So I drove him on post so we could attend the trial. You have to go to the Visitors' Center to get on post, so we went there, and they checked his I.D., and they ran a search on him and approved him. They gave him a pass and wrote him down as being okay to attend. But once we got to security at the actual court-martial, they had a little meltdown about it. They had his name on a blacklist, so they wouldn't let him in. I think he had been arrested at the Port of Olympia protests. So two guys from my old MP unit took him off base and just dropped him off in the middle of the military town just outside the base, all alone.
My superiors yelled at me for taking him on base. They told me he was a dangerous person, and that I should watch out who I associate with, like he was actually a terrorist or something. And they yelled at me for not being at work. That was all a week before I was leaving for the school for my new MOS. They restricted me to post. I wasn't allowed to leave Fort Lewis. They also told me I wasn't allowed to wear civilian clothes, that I had to be in uniform at all times. And threatened to court-martial me all over again for being AWOL that day. That was pretty much it.
Did that particularly scare you?
Suzanne: LOL No. Nope, nope.
Did any of this follow you to Fort Lee?
Suzanne: No. They just drove me to airport. I went to Fort Lee in Virginia for four or five months, just for training and whatever, and from there to Fort Irwin, where I'm still stationed. But actually, while I was at Fort Lee, I thought I was going to work and get paid again, but then they literally took all of my pay because of some Army gear that had been stolen when I left and went AWOL. They went through the process and found me guilty for it, even though they knew someone else from my old unit had stolen it. It was obvious what happened, but they said "No, we're gonna charge you for all of it." It was just spiteful. There was no reason to do that. But I wasn’t getting paid for a while because of it.
Where does your case stand now? Is the campaign to force the military to release you early and give you medical benefits still going on at this moment?
Suzanne: No, um. I thought about keeping up the fight or whatever, but I got here and realized just how much of a struggle it really was. By the time I got to Fort Irwin, I only had 18 months left in the Army anyway, so I just decided to keep my head down and not be a pain in the ass. Easier to lay low and to fall back into the mix. They all know who I am and what I'm about. They know I'm anti-war. They know they can argue about it all they want and I'll still win. They know I'm right, but they want to stick to their opinion.
So, tell me a little about life at Fort Irwin. What is your day-to-day routine like, especially after the Army changed your MOS?
Suzanne: My job title is actually "Automated Logistical Specialist.” It's basically logistics. It's kinda like the supply class - the schools are right next to each other. But while supply deals with all kinds of stuff, we deal with things like truck parts and gun parts. So I work at a warehouse, and we receive parts that get shipped to us, then we take them and issue them out to people from other units. So if a unit needs something like gun parts or truck parts, they come to us and we make it happen.
Are there any expectations or restrictions put on you at Fort Irwin that you believe single you out for your politics?
Suzanne: No, not that I know of. But I do know that when I was going to my unit, that particular unit had to have a meeting about how to handle me. I mean, I was a HUGE pain in the ass at Fort Lewis. I can see how these people thought I was going to bring protesters outside the gate at Fort Irwin. I mean, Agustin Aguayo turned himself in at Fort Irwin, so I'm sure they had some familiarity with the madness. Imagine their relief when none of that followed me.
And that was it? Your past never became an issue?
Suzanne: No, that was pretty much it. I know they were really apprehensive and they had to argue about where to put me and all that stuff. But they realize by now that I'm not in any kind of trouble-maker situation.
But actually, there was this one time, where we were having, you know the kind of sexual assault and sexual harassment trainings you usually have once in a while in the Army. Since everyone in the unit knows all about me, the commander took me aside for this so it wouldn't be weird with everyone else. But this was actually really cool. I got to sit down with the commander and have a serious talk about command rape and stuff. He was actually really interested and concerned about it, and was asking me if there were any materials he could read about warning signs and how to stop it and stuff. There are some people in all this who actually do care.
Do you have people at Fort Irwin come up and ask "Hey, wait a second. Are you the same Suzanne Swift that was in the news?"
Suzanne: Yup. Once, I was sitting at work, checking my personal e-mail, which you're not supposed to do, and I look behind me and there's a Lieutenant standing there. I thought "Oh shit!" I thought he was going to yell at me for using a military computer for personal stuff. I played it cool, asking if he wanted to use the computer, but he said "No, I've been following your case and Watada's since they first started in news. I just wanted to thank you for speaking out." I thought I was gonna get my ass chewed, and there I was being congratulated and told I was a hero.
But also, a lot of people would ask me "Why are you an E-1 with a combat badge?" I tell them to Google it most of the time.
How have you been received at Fort Irwin overall? Have you gotten a lot of support? Any threats from the good-ol-boys club?
Suzanne: No, none of that. I just kind of fell back into the mix really, except I still pass out copies of Sir! No Sir! and I pass out copies of Sit-Rep, the IVAW [Iraq Veterans Against the War] newspaper that comes out. I get them mailed to me, and I pass them out to people whenever they come to my house. I occasionally bring them to the doctor's office and read them in the waiting room and then leave them there. Right now, I'm working on distributing boxes of Body of War and Winter Soldier (Iraq and Afghanistan - The Movie), and copies of the Winter Soldier one from Vietnam.
Is there an active duty IVAW chapter there at Fort Irwin?
Suzanne: No. I may be the only one at Fort Irwin. But I'm working on it. That's my near goal at the moment.
Aw, you're slackin' on us is what you're doin'.
Suzanne: Yeah, kinda. You know, it's harder to make a chapter here because there's not a lot of actual combat veterans. If you walk around Fort Hood or Lewis or Drum, those are really heavily deployed places. Fort Bragg, too. But Fort Irwin, you don't really see a lot of people who have been to Iraq or Afghanistan. A lot of people, this is their first duty station. I'm not saying there are none, but the majority don't know what it's like and don't have the experience to put what you're saying in the right context.
I understand you routinely attend national anti-war events, including the historic Winter Soldier hearing in Washington, D.C. this past March. Could you tell us about your experience at Winter Soldier, or about any other IVAW events you've attended?
Suzanne: Winter Soldier was reeeally powerful. Just like every other IVAW event I've been to. Everything that people say, I'm like "YES! I thought I was the only one!" In the Army, when you're anti-war - and most everyone is - you always think you're the only one, because leadership is so psyched about it. But then you go to IVAW events, and you learn that there's a whole group of people who feel the same way. I mean, just look at how many people signed the Appeal to Redress. And they're all service members! So, it's really empowering. I always come out of them feeling "Yes, we can do this. We can make this change."
But lemme tell you about what happened in Austin! Ann Wright and SWAN [Service Women’s Action Network] put on a production of the Vagina Monologues in Austin, Texas, that was dedicated to military sexual assault survivors. The survivors who were there were myself, April Fitzsimmons, and Dorothy Mackie. We all performed different parts in the Vagina Monologues, which was awesome. And Eve Ensler, who wrote the Vagina Monologues, was there. Afterward, she got on stage with a brand new monologue for the Monologues, which she was still writing and was trying it out on people. It's called "Going AWOL", and it's dedicated to military sexual assault survivors. She said she's considering making it a permanent part of the Vagina Monologues from now on. It was so powerful. April and I were just holding on to each other and crying as she announced it. It was intense.
Holy shit! That's beyond words cool!
Suzanne: Yeah, it was awesome. And Austin's a pretty cool place.
Do you intend to stay involved with Iraq Veterans Against the War?
Suzanne: Abso-fuckin-lutely!
So, you've said in the past that you routinely receive messages of support from others in the military who have gone through the same ordeal in Iraq you did. Tell us, about how often do you receive these messages of support? Have the messages tapered off at all over the last couple years? And also tell us about the different ways you get these messages?
Suzanne: My mom gets most of the messages from people, because her e-mail address is on the website. She constantly gets cries for help from people whom it's happening to right now. We do whatever we can, and we call and talk to them. Whatever we can. But usually, if we get a message, it's a support message, not a cry for help.
We also get a lot of messages through MySpace. My friend Desiree - She lives in Florida, and I've never actually met her - set up the Support Suzanne Swift MySpace page, and she gets a lot of messages there. If there's anything important, she just forwards them on to me at my real MySpace. Also, some people send messages to a MySpace page called "Suzanne Swift" who's not really me.
And I actually find people on my Army e-mail. They look me up on the Army website, and we have a directory of Army e-mails, and people find me on there. People I've never heard of in my entire life, and they just say they're supportive, and basically "Rock on!"
And it happens in different ways. For instance, my boss's wife is a Staff Sgt. [E-6] She already knew my story and what happened to me. We were sitting somewhere talking, and she just came out with it. She told me that earlier in her career, "My Staff Sgt. wouldn't promote me because I wouldn't have sex with him." This is a Staff Sgt., who's planning on staying in the military the rest of her life and retiring.
How has your decision to come forward with what happened to you affected your personal life? Do you get recognized around town or at clubs?
Suzanne: Um, not really. Not in a bad way. I think the weirdest time was ... Oh wait, I don't want to put that.
LOL! Well tell me on the side. I wanna know.
Suzanne: LOL! Alright...
...
But yeah, it happens. It was mostly around Fort Lewis and Olympia, and my hometown Eugene. People would tell me about myself. They would tell me about me, and didn't know it was me. I wanted to tell them, but like, how do you say that without being an arrogant prick? I don't want to be like, "I'm that girl."
And didn't Sean Penn recognize you?
Suzanne: Yeah, he totally did! He didn't recognize me by face, but my mom introduced me, and he was like "Oh, I've heard of you!"
After your case got big, there were a bunch of depictions of generic military sexual assault survivors, like in Doonsebury and on the cover of The Nation magazine and such, each of whom bore a very striking resemblance to you. Could you tell us a little about all that?
Suzanne: Haha. Yeah. The Donnsebury one was actually supposed to be me. My mom - or my nana actually - was the first one to notice it and she called my mom. My mom called the Doonsebury guy, Garry Trudeau, and he said "Yeah, I did that on purpose. I just wanted to make sure people kept talking about your case and about sexual assault in the military." That was very cool. And the magazine, that came out while I was in jail. My friends showed it to me the day I got out. We never got in touch with that guy, but yeah, she definitely looked like me.
Why did you join the Army?
Suzanne: That damn commercial.
Do you regret going public with what happened?
Suzanne: No, not at all. I think that - How do I word this carefully? - I think the result of my case would've been different, and I would've just gotten the normal discharge from the Army if I hadn't spoken up. But it's really helped a lot of other people to let them know they're not alone. And it's really public now. What's going on in the military is really public now. I wouldn't take any of that back.
Do you think it was a mistake to have joined the Army?
Suzanne: Um, I don't know. Probably. It wasn't the best decision ever. But there's also been so much good stuff that's happened. I wouldn't want to take all of that back.
So obviously, you're deeply grateful for everything folks have done to help you. But sexual assault in the military isn't going to go away without a lot of work, struggle, and re-evaluation of what we can do better. So, understanding that people do want to know how to improve our tactics and strategies, and that this is not at all ungratefulness on your part, and that I'm totally badgering you, and that I won't stop until I get a constructive answer, based on your experiences the past couple years, do you have any advice to give to the anti-war movement of how we could do things better the next time a military sexual assault survivor, or just a generic war resister comes forward?
Suzanne: Ugh, hard question. I don't really know. I know a lot of stuff the Army could've done different. And somewhere out there there's gotta be a better lawyer than the ones I had. I also really wish I would've gotten in touch with Susan Avila-Smith from Women Organizing Women sooner than I did. She was a domestic assault survivor in the military, and now she works with a lot of military sexual assault survivors and deals with the Army. There was one case where someone was sexually assaulted in the Army, and the Army was just dragging her case out. Susan went straight to the commanding General and got the girl out of the Army the very next day. And she talked to me several times, and listened to me when I wasn't doing so well. And there are other public resources.
But as far as the movement, my mom could probably answer that question better than I could. She's worked a lot more on that stuff.
What is your expected release date, and is it possible you could be released early?
Suzanne: My actual release date is the 29th of January, but I have enough leave saved up that I can get out on the 30th of December. Just three months to go!
So last I heard, your unit is set to deploy at the end of the year. Tell us about this expected deployment, and what kind of effect it could have on you and your expected release.
Suzanne: It was just a rumor going around, as far as I know. If they were deploying us any time soon, we would be getting ready for it. We'd know about it by now.
Oh, that's good! So it’s definitely not gonna happen!
Suzanne: Nope! No deployment. Yay! In fact, I've already started the process of getting out. I've gotta meet with someone about it later today, and I have to have my final medical and dental exam and all that stuff, and after that it's all downhill.
Alright! So I wanted to get this interview printed sooner, because I thought you were about to deploy, and I thought people should know. But since that's not gonna happen, that brings up the question of whether this should be printed now, when you're still in the Army and when they could still retaliate, or whether we should sit on this for a few months and wait until you're free. Do you have any problems with printing this now?
Suzanne: Eh, whatevs. I don't think they're going to care, because I'm not really fighting with them about anything at the moment. I haven't said anything I'm not supposed to say, and I'm not speaking on behalf of the Army or anything. I mean, soldiers say things online about all kinds of things they don't want them to, but they never do anything about it.
Awesome! Well, do you have anything else to add, anything to get out to the world that you haven't already had the chance to?
Suzanne: Nah, not that I can think of right now. But I'm sure right when I hang up the phone, I'll think of like ten things I should should've talked about.
Yeah, I'm sure there's a question or two I'm missing here.
Suzanne: Totally.
Well, I think that does it. Thank you for your time Suzanne, and thank you for kicking ass.
Suzanne: Thank you.
Recently, I had the honor of interviewing war resister and military sexual assault survivor Spc. Suzanne Swift. During her deployment to Iraq in 2004, Suzanne was violently coerced into a sexual relationship by her superior officer, and was subjected to public humiliation and retribution when she filed a grievance while in Iraq. She is currently serving out the remainder of her enlistment, after the military refused to grant her a medical discharge or punish the perpetrator. You can read more about her case at www.suzanneswift.org.
But the focus of this interview is not to recount the same Suzanne Swift story that has been told so many times before. While many accounts stop with the court case, that’s where this update starts. Where is Suzanne Swift now? Were any of her demands met? Is she still in the military? What has it been like being a poster-woman for military sexual assault survivors? The purpose here is to address all these other unanswered questions, both to complete the story for the public record, and as a gift to all those who see Suzanne Swift as the inspiration she is.
So, a lot of people are familiar with the background of your story, and if they aren't, there are already several interviews of you and of your mother Sara Rich. So I'm going to start with the last thing most folks remember about you, which was the deal you and your lawyer made with the Army to end their case against you for going AWOL. Could you tell us about the terms of the deal, why you chose to agree to the deal, and also if there were any conditions or stipulations you refused to go along with?
Suzanne Swift: Well, they started out charging me with a Special Court Martial, which is a type of Court Martial they have. The penalty for that carries reduction to the lowest pay grade, a year's confinement, forfeiture of all pay and a bad conduct discharge, which leaves you with almost no benefits. That's what they were going for, and no matter how great a lawyer I had, I was going to be guilty and I was going to get whatever they were giving me. So my lawyer was really pushing for a deal where I would plead guilty to the charges of missing movement and AWOL, but not desertion, and would stipulate the things we all took for granted, that we agreed to be true. Such as, I didn't deploy with my unit when I agreed to. Stuff like that. And my lawyer, whenever he explained it to me, said it was just a slap on the wrist, probably no jail time, and maybe a reduction of one rank. That was pretty much it. I got the first draft, but what they really wanted me to sign was a stipulation of fact of all this other stuff.
[For this interview, I was provided with a copy of the original military-proposed stipulation. Among many mischaracterizations, the stipulation said "During her deployment, the accused also claimed to have engaged in a consensual sexual relationship with her squad leader," while refusing to confirm that any sexual encounters happened. Suzanne has maintained all along that it was coerced and non-consensual. If it really was reliant solely on Suzanne's claims, shouldn't they at least make their depiction representative of those claims? The stipulation implies joint-culpability by suggesting any sexual relations would violate the Army fraternization policy. When addressing sexually harassing things Suzanne's superiors had said, the stipulation paraphrases four and five word quotes instead of directly quoting them, even when they concede one of these incidents (the "In my bed, naked" incident, or as they put it, the "'Naked in my bed' or words to that effect" incident) in fact happened. The guilty party in this incident, according to the stipulation, "received a letter of admonishment from the Commander" as punishment, while the stipulation later suggests, "Had any of the accused's claims in Iraq been substantiated, the noncommissioned officers involved would have likely faced adverse administrative action or disciplinary action under the Uniform Code of Military Justice." Finally, the stipulation suggests that by not taking the grievance further up the chain of command than she did, Suzanne "denied those leaders the opportunity to conduct a timely and comprehensive investigation into the matters."]
Suzanne: It basically said "Spc Swift claimed to blah blah blah" and "supposedly blah blah blah." It also said I "refused to deploy" which "directly hindered their ability to complete their dangerous wartime mission" - the "dangerous wartime mission" where not one soldier at any time fired a weapon or was fired on at all. I tried adding that. Actually, I wrote a lot of my own stuff right there on their stipulation. And I'd send it back to them, and they'd send it back to me. By the time we were done going back and forth, they were so pissed off.
I didn't want to be in the Army at all anymore. I'd tried doing things to get kicked out. I just wanted to be done with the Army. I really thought they were going to do it, but they weren't having it.
The statement I made would get approved all the way up to the base Colonel, and then it would get vetoed. The Colonel would veto every other chapter, every possible way. My options were to face the Special Court Martial, where I would most likely face a year in jail, or I could sign their stupid statement.
So, in December 2006, it went to a regular Court Martial. But my lawyer, when I kept refusing to take his deal which he thought was the greatest thing because it would make him look big, he basically abandoned me. He said "Whatever you want to do, it's going to cost you more money to be in a Special Court-Martial." Money was never really an issue. Yeah, we agreed to pay him, but the whole time he was never really stressed about it, until I started being a pain in his ass, and I didn't want to take his deal. He basically said "I can't represent you anymore," and asked for all the rest of the money right then. So my mom cussed him out. They basically abandoned us right at the end. Douchebags.
Aw, fuck them!
Suzanne: Yeah, right?
So the court-martial stopped halfway through when you eventually did take a deal. What did you end up with?
Suzanne: By the end they were so fed up with it, the deal was going to be no jail for a year, the option of either 30 days confinement or 60 days hard labor, a reduction in rank, and loss of pay for a month.
Lt. Colonel Catherine Koontz, who presided over the court-martial, listened very politely to everything I had to say about what happened and why I went AWOL. About halfway through, she understood what I was saying. She told me, "You're not sworn in, so I can't ask you any questions. I can swear you in, but if you're sworn in, you have to tell the truth." I had a military appointed lawyer at this point, so I checked with him, and he said "Yeah, if that's what you wanna do. It might help make you more believable."
So during the break, I saw my mom just bs-ing with the Lt. Colonel in the hall. I could hear her telling the Lt. Colonel about our legal expenses through all this with both our civilian lawyers. And they bs-ed for a while. So we come back, and the Colonel asked me a couple questions, and had me go through the whole story of what happened to me. I broke down crying a couple times while recalling it all. After that, we had to wait outside for an hour while she thought about what she wanted to do.
I got a reduction to E-1, the lowest pay grade, and 30 days confinement. This meant I would be in jail for Christmas, New Years, and the birth of my nephew, which they knew. But then the Lt. Colonel said "Your mom was telling me about your financial struggle through all this, so I'm not going to take away any money." All the testimony had no impact, but her bs-ing with my mom about how much it cost was the only part of anybody talking during any of it that made any difference at all. "Who cares what happened to you, but I feel bad for your mom, so I'm not going to take all of your money."
We appealed all the stuff. I had no problem doing jail time, and I accepted my punishment, but if I'm going to stay in the Army, I deserve at least some kind of rank. We also tried to get the jail sentence delayed so I could be there when my nephew was born. All of it denied immediately.
Afterward, out in the hall, the JAG attorney [military prosecutor] walked by while we were talking. My mom said to him, "I hope you have a merry fucking Christmas." These three soldiers saw the whole thing. They looked like they were thinking "That was rude," but they didn't say anything. Anyway, the JAG lawyer ignored her and just kept walking. Later on, he tried to press charges against my mom for saying that. He tried to get sworn statements from those three soldiers, but they wouldn't say anything other than "I heard her wish you a merry Christams."
So, are you still at the reduced rank today?
Suzanne: No, I'm actually an E-4 now. Back where it all began.
Did you have to pass all the promotion requirements and stuff all over again?
Suzanne: No, they waived them. It's the Army promotion system. In other branches, you have to pass tests and stuff each time you get promoted, but in the Army, you get automatically promoted at certain times, if you've been there long enough.
So you just did your time for promotion each time and got your rank back?
Suzanne: No, they waived the time requirement every time. Basically, the way it works is, each unit can give so many promotions, and can give so many waivers, and they have a list of people eligible for waivers. For instance, let's say they can promote three people from E-1 to E-2. Well, they look at the list. They'll say "This one's been a hard worker, so he gets a waiver. But this other one didn't pass his PT [physical test], so not him." They sit down and hammer out who deserves one and who doesn't.
And you got promoted every time it came around, or close to that?
Suzanne: It did all happen really fast, actually. I was an E-1 from the time of my court-martial in December '06 until, like September '07. In April [2008], I got back to E-4.
So let's rewind a little. Tell us about your time in jail. Where did they hold you?
Suzanne: I was held at Bangor Naval Base, I think was the name of it, north of Fort Lewis. The actual building was called Naval Brig Puget Sound. It was really small, and they all kind of knew what was going on and what happened.
Why did they hold you in a Navy facility when you're in the Army?
Suzanne: The Army jail at Fort Lewis doesn't have a facility for women. They used to, but they didn't have enough personnel and enough women going to jail there, so they just don't have it anymore. So it was either the one at Bangor, or they would have had to transfer me to Miramar in San Diego.
How were you treated there at Bangor?
Suzanne: They treated me good. They were all really cool there. I don't want to make it sound like they were unprofessional, but there was nothing I could say that was bad about that place at all, other than I was there at Christmas. They followed all their rules. Nobody was really an asshole. Even in their little handbook, their policy is to treat you with dignity, because your punishment isn't to be treated like shit; Your punishment is just to be there. Confinement is your punishment. They don't yell at you or make you do push-ups or any shit like that. Actually, they do have a place where they do that, in the same building. There, those people aren't incarcerated like I was, but it's like boot camp all over again for them. They smoke 'em there. But nobody where I was really did anything that serious.
So how long did you end up staying there?
Suzanne: I was sentenced to 30 days, but when I was arrested in June, I did three days in regular people jail while I was waiting for the Army to come get me, so I got that taken off my sentence, plus some more time for good behavior. I was only there for 23 days.
Where did the Army send you upon your release from jail?
Suzanne: Well, that's actually kind of a fun story too. When I told them I'd play their silly games and take their deal, I told them I didn't want to be at Fort Lewis anymore. Everyone there knows who I am, and I'm sure the Post General was totally sick of hearing my name. And I also told them I didn't want to be an MP [military police officer] anymore. So while I was still in jail, they brought a career counselor down, and he gave me a list of jobs I could look through. I could pick as many jobs as I wanted that I liked, and put them in order of preference. And I could pick as many duty stations as I wanted, and he'd try to get me the best combination of those things.
Uh-oh. I think I see where this is going.
Suzanne: No! It actually worked out really well. My first choice of duty station was Fort Irwin, because that way I'd stay on the West Coast with my family in Eugene. I told him that took precedence over my MOS ["military occupational specialty" - Army job]. So I got my first choice of duty station and my third choice of MOS, which was logistics.
Hey, not too shabby!
Suzanne: Yeah, it turned out pretty good.
Did the Army give you any leave time after your stay in jail to be home with your family?
Suzanne: Yeah, right when I got out of jail. They were actually really cool about that. They gave me a four-day weekend, and I got to hang out with the family.
Did you go to Fort Irwin directly?
Suzanne: No, I had to take a school for my new job, which was at Fort Lee in Virginia. But I had to stay at Fort Lewis until a spot opened up in the school. After the court-martial, I was such an asshole to them there. I would just leave and do my own thing. I'd go home in the middle of the day Thursday and not go to work Friday, and just spend a weekend at home with the fam. Or I'd skip work to go to the rallies and stuff for Ehren Watada.
Yeah, isn't there a photo somewhere of you, Ann Wright and Kelly Dougherty [of Iraq Veterans Against the War] attending Ehren Watada's court-martial?
Suzanne: Well, there's actually a funny story. What happened was, I had a friend who's an anti-war activist in Olympia, and he wanted to attend the trial but he couldn't get on post without a ride. So I drove him on post so we could attend the trial. You have to go to the Visitors' Center to get on post, so we went there, and they checked his I.D., and they ran a search on him and approved him. They gave him a pass and wrote him down as being okay to attend. But once we got to security at the actual court-martial, they had a little meltdown about it. They had his name on a blacklist, so they wouldn't let him in. I think he had been arrested at the Port of Olympia protests. So two guys from my old MP unit took him off base and just dropped him off in the middle of the military town just outside the base, all alone.
My superiors yelled at me for taking him on base. They told me he was a dangerous person, and that I should watch out who I associate with, like he was actually a terrorist or something. And they yelled at me for not being at work. That was all a week before I was leaving for the school for my new MOS. They restricted me to post. I wasn't allowed to leave Fort Lewis. They also told me I wasn't allowed to wear civilian clothes, that I had to be in uniform at all times. And threatened to court-martial me all over again for being AWOL that day. That was pretty much it.
Did that particularly scare you?
Suzanne: LOL No. Nope, nope.
Did any of this follow you to Fort Lee?
Suzanne: No. They just drove me to airport. I went to Fort Lee in Virginia for four or five months, just for training and whatever, and from there to Fort Irwin, where I'm still stationed. But actually, while I was at Fort Lee, I thought I was going to work and get paid again, but then they literally took all of my pay because of some Army gear that had been stolen when I left and went AWOL. They went through the process and found me guilty for it, even though they knew someone else from my old unit had stolen it. It was obvious what happened, but they said "No, we're gonna charge you for all of it." It was just spiteful. There was no reason to do that. But I wasn’t getting paid for a while because of it.
Where does your case stand now? Is the campaign to force the military to release you early and give you medical benefits still going on at this moment?
Suzanne: No, um. I thought about keeping up the fight or whatever, but I got here and realized just how much of a struggle it really was. By the time I got to Fort Irwin, I only had 18 months left in the Army anyway, so I just decided to keep my head down and not be a pain in the ass. Easier to lay low and to fall back into the mix. They all know who I am and what I'm about. They know I'm anti-war. They know they can argue about it all they want and I'll still win. They know I'm right, but they want to stick to their opinion.
So, tell me a little about life at Fort Irwin. What is your day-to-day routine like, especially after the Army changed your MOS?
Suzanne: My job title is actually "Automated Logistical Specialist.” It's basically logistics. It's kinda like the supply class - the schools are right next to each other. But while supply deals with all kinds of stuff, we deal with things like truck parts and gun parts. So I work at a warehouse, and we receive parts that get shipped to us, then we take them and issue them out to people from other units. So if a unit needs something like gun parts or truck parts, they come to us and we make it happen.
Are there any expectations or restrictions put on you at Fort Irwin that you believe single you out for your politics?
Suzanne: No, not that I know of. But I do know that when I was going to my unit, that particular unit had to have a meeting about how to handle me. I mean, I was a HUGE pain in the ass at Fort Lewis. I can see how these people thought I was going to bring protesters outside the gate at Fort Irwin. I mean, Agustin Aguayo turned himself in at Fort Irwin, so I'm sure they had some familiarity with the madness. Imagine their relief when none of that followed me.
And that was it? Your past never became an issue?
Suzanne: No, that was pretty much it. I know they were really apprehensive and they had to argue about where to put me and all that stuff. But they realize by now that I'm not in any kind of trouble-maker situation.
But actually, there was this one time, where we were having, you know the kind of sexual assault and sexual harassment trainings you usually have once in a while in the Army. Since everyone in the unit knows all about me, the commander took me aside for this so it wouldn't be weird with everyone else. But this was actually really cool. I got to sit down with the commander and have a serious talk about command rape and stuff. He was actually really interested and concerned about it, and was asking me if there were any materials he could read about warning signs and how to stop it and stuff. There are some people in all this who actually do care.
Do you have people at Fort Irwin come up and ask "Hey, wait a second. Are you the same Suzanne Swift that was in the news?"
Suzanne: Yup. Once, I was sitting at work, checking my personal e-mail, which you're not supposed to do, and I look behind me and there's a Lieutenant standing there. I thought "Oh shit!" I thought he was going to yell at me for using a military computer for personal stuff. I played it cool, asking if he wanted to use the computer, but he said "No, I've been following your case and Watada's since they first started in news. I just wanted to thank you for speaking out." I thought I was gonna get my ass chewed, and there I was being congratulated and told I was a hero.
But also, a lot of people would ask me "Why are you an E-1 with a combat badge?" I tell them to Google it most of the time.
How have you been received at Fort Irwin overall? Have you gotten a lot of support? Any threats from the good-ol-boys club?
Suzanne: No, none of that. I just kind of fell back into the mix really, except I still pass out copies of Sir! No Sir! and I pass out copies of Sit-Rep, the IVAW [Iraq Veterans Against the War] newspaper that comes out. I get them mailed to me, and I pass them out to people whenever they come to my house. I occasionally bring them to the doctor's office and read them in the waiting room and then leave them there. Right now, I'm working on distributing boxes of Body of War and Winter Soldier (Iraq and Afghanistan - The Movie), and copies of the Winter Soldier one from Vietnam.
Is there an active duty IVAW chapter there at Fort Irwin?
Suzanne: No. I may be the only one at Fort Irwin. But I'm working on it. That's my near goal at the moment.
Aw, you're slackin' on us is what you're doin'.
Suzanne: Yeah, kinda. You know, it's harder to make a chapter here because there's not a lot of actual combat veterans. If you walk around Fort Hood or Lewis or Drum, those are really heavily deployed places. Fort Bragg, too. But Fort Irwin, you don't really see a lot of people who have been to Iraq or Afghanistan. A lot of people, this is their first duty station. I'm not saying there are none, but the majority don't know what it's like and don't have the experience to put what you're saying in the right context.
I understand you routinely attend national anti-war events, including the historic Winter Soldier hearing in Washington, D.C. this past March. Could you tell us about your experience at Winter Soldier, or about any other IVAW events you've attended?
Suzanne: Winter Soldier was reeeally powerful. Just like every other IVAW event I've been to. Everything that people say, I'm like "YES! I thought I was the only one!" In the Army, when you're anti-war - and most everyone is - you always think you're the only one, because leadership is so psyched about it. But then you go to IVAW events, and you learn that there's a whole group of people who feel the same way. I mean, just look at how many people signed the Appeal to Redress. And they're all service members! So, it's really empowering. I always come out of them feeling "Yes, we can do this. We can make this change."
But lemme tell you about what happened in Austin! Ann Wright and SWAN [Service Women’s Action Network] put on a production of the Vagina Monologues in Austin, Texas, that was dedicated to military sexual assault survivors. The survivors who were there were myself, April Fitzsimmons, and Dorothy Mackie. We all performed different parts in the Vagina Monologues, which was awesome. And Eve Ensler, who wrote the Vagina Monologues, was there. Afterward, she got on stage with a brand new monologue for the Monologues, which she was still writing and was trying it out on people. It's called "Going AWOL", and it's dedicated to military sexual assault survivors. She said she's considering making it a permanent part of the Vagina Monologues from now on. It was so powerful. April and I were just holding on to each other and crying as she announced it. It was intense.
Holy shit! That's beyond words cool!
Suzanne: Yeah, it was awesome. And Austin's a pretty cool place.
Do you intend to stay involved with Iraq Veterans Against the War?
Suzanne: Abso-fuckin-lutely!
So, you've said in the past that you routinely receive messages of support from others in the military who have gone through the same ordeal in Iraq you did. Tell us, about how often do you receive these messages of support? Have the messages tapered off at all over the last couple years? And also tell us about the different ways you get these messages?
Suzanne: My mom gets most of the messages from people, because her e-mail address is on the website. She constantly gets cries for help from people whom it's happening to right now. We do whatever we can, and we call and talk to them. Whatever we can. But usually, if we get a message, it's a support message, not a cry for help.
We also get a lot of messages through MySpace. My friend Desiree - She lives in Florida, and I've never actually met her - set up the Support Suzanne Swift MySpace page, and she gets a lot of messages there. If there's anything important, she just forwards them on to me at my real MySpace. Also, some people send messages to a MySpace page called "Suzanne Swift" who's not really me.
And I actually find people on my Army e-mail. They look me up on the Army website, and we have a directory of Army e-mails, and people find me on there. People I've never heard of in my entire life, and they just say they're supportive, and basically "Rock on!"
And it happens in different ways. For instance, my boss's wife is a Staff Sgt. [E-6] She already knew my story and what happened to me. We were sitting somewhere talking, and she just came out with it. She told me that earlier in her career, "My Staff Sgt. wouldn't promote me because I wouldn't have sex with him." This is a Staff Sgt., who's planning on staying in the military the rest of her life and retiring.
How has your decision to come forward with what happened to you affected your personal life? Do you get recognized around town or at clubs?
Suzanne: Um, not really. Not in a bad way. I think the weirdest time was ... Oh wait, I don't want to put that.
LOL! Well tell me on the side. I wanna know.
Suzanne: LOL! Alright...
...
But yeah, it happens. It was mostly around Fort Lewis and Olympia, and my hometown Eugene. People would tell me about myself. They would tell me about me, and didn't know it was me. I wanted to tell them, but like, how do you say that without being an arrogant prick? I don't want to be like, "I'm that girl."
And didn't Sean Penn recognize you?
Suzanne: Yeah, he totally did! He didn't recognize me by face, but my mom introduced me, and he was like "Oh, I've heard of you!"
After your case got big, there were a bunch of depictions of generic military sexual assault survivors, like in Doonsebury and on the cover of The Nation magazine and such, each of whom bore a very striking resemblance to you. Could you tell us a little about all that?
Suzanne: Haha. Yeah. The Donnsebury one was actually supposed to be me. My mom - or my nana actually - was the first one to notice it and she called my mom. My mom called the Doonsebury guy, Garry Trudeau, and he said "Yeah, I did that on purpose. I just wanted to make sure people kept talking about your case and about sexual assault in the military." That was very cool. And the magazine, that came out while I was in jail. My friends showed it to me the day I got out. We never got in touch with that guy, but yeah, she definitely looked like me.
Why did you join the Army?
Suzanne: That damn commercial.
Do you regret going public with what happened?
Suzanne: No, not at all. I think that - How do I word this carefully? - I think the result of my case would've been different, and I would've just gotten the normal discharge from the Army if I hadn't spoken up. But it's really helped a lot of other people to let them know they're not alone. And it's really public now. What's going on in the military is really public now. I wouldn't take any of that back.
Do you think it was a mistake to have joined the Army?
Suzanne: Um, I don't know. Probably. It wasn't the best decision ever. But there's also been so much good stuff that's happened. I wouldn't want to take all of that back.
So obviously, you're deeply grateful for everything folks have done to help you. But sexual assault in the military isn't going to go away without a lot of work, struggle, and re-evaluation of what we can do better. So, understanding that people do want to know how to improve our tactics and strategies, and that this is not at all ungratefulness on your part, and that I'm totally badgering you, and that I won't stop until I get a constructive answer, based on your experiences the past couple years, do you have any advice to give to the anti-war movement of how we could do things better the next time a military sexual assault survivor, or just a generic war resister comes forward?
Suzanne: Ugh, hard question. I don't really know. I know a lot of stuff the Army could've done different. And somewhere out there there's gotta be a better lawyer than the ones I had. I also really wish I would've gotten in touch with Susan Avila-Smith from Women Organizing Women sooner than I did. She was a domestic assault survivor in the military, and now she works with a lot of military sexual assault survivors and deals with the Army. There was one case where someone was sexually assaulted in the Army, and the Army was just dragging her case out. Susan went straight to the commanding General and got the girl out of the Army the very next day. And she talked to me several times, and listened to me when I wasn't doing so well. And there are other public resources.
But as far as the movement, my mom could probably answer that question better than I could. She's worked a lot more on that stuff.
What is your expected release date, and is it possible you could be released early?
Suzanne: My actual release date is the 29th of January, but I have enough leave saved up that I can get out on the 30th of December. Just three months to go!
So last I heard, your unit is set to deploy at the end of the year. Tell us about this expected deployment, and what kind of effect it could have on you and your expected release.
Suzanne: It was just a rumor going around, as far as I know. If they were deploying us any time soon, we would be getting ready for it. We'd know about it by now.
Oh, that's good! So it’s definitely not gonna happen!
Suzanne: Nope! No deployment. Yay! In fact, I've already started the process of getting out. I've gotta meet with someone about it later today, and I have to have my final medical and dental exam and all that stuff, and after that it's all downhill.
Alright! So I wanted to get this interview printed sooner, because I thought you were about to deploy, and I thought people should know. But since that's not gonna happen, that brings up the question of whether this should be printed now, when you're still in the Army and when they could still retaliate, or whether we should sit on this for a few months and wait until you're free. Do you have any problems with printing this now?
Suzanne: Eh, whatevs. I don't think they're going to care, because I'm not really fighting with them about anything at the moment. I haven't said anything I'm not supposed to say, and I'm not speaking on behalf of the Army or anything. I mean, soldiers say things online about all kinds of things they don't want them to, but they never do anything about it.
Awesome! Well, do you have anything else to add, anything to get out to the world that you haven't already had the chance to?
Suzanne: Nah, not that I can think of right now. But I'm sure right when I hang up the phone, I'll think of like ten things I should should've talked about.
Yeah, I'm sure there's a question or two I'm missing here.
Suzanne: Totally.
Well, I think that does it. Thank you for your time Suzanne, and thank you for kicking ass.
Suzanne: Thank you.