Oh look, it's a young Liberal crying racist
I hate it when neo-cons accuses politicians who support gay rights as pedophiles, because child sexual abuse is a serious matter that completely mess the child up for life, the child who survive into adulthood might learn to deal with it, but it'll always be there, child sexual abuse is not a debate tool.
I also hate it when the stereotypical high-moral Liberal use accusations of racism to derail an argument, kids, don't use serious, hurtful matter as a debate or political tool. Do not lump your opponents with the Nazis, the KKK, and assorted people who believe that other human beings are inferior or aren't human beings at all just because they are of a certain race. It makes you look stupid, and slimy.
Here is the thread that I started with my concerns about immigrant voter knowledge in Ontario
My concern was that some people would accidentally vote for the wrong party, because the name on the ballot is the leader of the riding, that's how I remember the June 2004 election at least. Complicating matters is immigrants who doesn't speak English, and is either voting for the first time or haven't been keeping up due to language barriers. Being able to understand Catonese gave me the ablity to hear some truly scary scenerios where the voter in question doesn't understand how the voting process works, and doesn't know what the parties stand for and therefore create situation where too much power rest on the poll official.
gsyh: Ah, it's probably that Canadian politics is usually rather tame, and other problems like the ones I mention above with language barriers is that we grant citizenships in 4 years, and it takes well over 4 years to become fluent, especially for adults. Ethnic newspaper, well I know the Chinese Ming Pao at least, does have news concerning Canadian politics, but they use the Chinese translated names, hence the confusion. It'll be nice if the ethnic newspaper print out a little guide for their English challenged readers a month before the election. Usually when the people don't understand which party is which, one of the officials explain, but I fear that this gives the official in question too much power, especially in the case of language barriers where the official explaining is the only official that understand the language, the others have no idea if he/she is being neutral and accurate in his/her explanation.
What might also help, is if they have a picture of the leader of the party, not the leader of the riding, up on a wall at the polling station above their names, with the party logo.
lifeisacabaret: Whoa, that borders on racism... what basis do you have for these claims?
gsyh: Defend your accusation, where is the racism in that.
My basis in those "claims", is that I was there, and I speak Chinese (Cantonese) so I understand what those people were asking. It is not a matter of race, but a matter of language barriers, and access to political news and party information. The problem I see within the Chinese voter base, at least among the Cantonese speaking traditional text reading which is what I know, is that they are interested in exercising their political right, but their accessibility to information on politics is limited, especially for the older generations. Some of older generation Chinese can’t read because there were great hardships after the world war and the civil war, and it’s even more difficult if they are a woman in her granny years. One of my older relative in her 90s, despite her family’s relative wealth, never learnt to read because at the time the culture doesn’t demand it.
Also, after the age 8, it is very hard to learn a new language, especially if the English not as a first language people are already out of school. I have relatives who have been here for a decade and they still couldn't understand too well, so they rely on the Chinese media, the TV and radio, uses translation of politician and party names, and I don’t recall any issue of Ming Pao explaining the voting process, although there was something on gay marriage earlier. What will also be confusing, is that some Chinese parents will rest their vote on education, I’ve heard a mother basically ask the poll official which is the party that supports education and childcare the most because she’ll vote for that, and the poll official appropriately answer that she don’t know. What if the poll official were bias though? Simply answering the question by telling the name of the party she supports?
Honestly, don't jump to accusations of racism, such things should not be use as a card in an argument, especially when you don't back it up.
lifeisacabaret: I wasn't "jumping to accusations" I was asking for clarification... which you gave amply and I thank you for that.
I think you need a vacation.
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Let it be noted that Ms lifeisacabaret has disagreement with me elsewhere, and this is not her first personal attack. This is the first one that gets to me though, it's a serious matter, I don't like to see it use as it tool, racism is very hurtful and while Canada is a overall lovely country I did run into assholes and scary people when I was younger, and there are others out there too. Let it be noted also that Ms lifeisacabaret, typical of her kind who are moral hypocrites, is not sincerely sorry at all that she accused me of being a racist, and instead suggest that I need a vacation.
ETA: It was so much easier to just ignore people like her and other who bothers or distrubs me as a child, because the others were children and they do not have the power an adult like her would have, the right to vote, to influence, to affect. Turning the other way, bad things would happen, bit by bit.
I also hate it when the stereotypical high-moral Liberal use accusations of racism to derail an argument, kids, don't use serious, hurtful matter as a debate or political tool. Do not lump your opponents with the Nazis, the KKK, and assorted people who believe that other human beings are inferior or aren't human beings at all just because they are of a certain race. It makes you look stupid, and slimy.
Here is the thread that I started with my concerns about immigrant voter knowledge in Ontario
My concern was that some people would accidentally vote for the wrong party, because the name on the ballot is the leader of the riding, that's how I remember the June 2004 election at least. Complicating matters is immigrants who doesn't speak English, and is either voting for the first time or haven't been keeping up due to language barriers. Being able to understand Catonese gave me the ablity to hear some truly scary scenerios where the voter in question doesn't understand how the voting process works, and doesn't know what the parties stand for and therefore create situation where too much power rest on the poll official.
gsyh: Ah, it's probably that Canadian politics is usually rather tame, and other problems like the ones I mention above with language barriers is that we grant citizenships in 4 years, and it takes well over 4 years to become fluent, especially for adults. Ethnic newspaper, well I know the Chinese Ming Pao at least, does have news concerning Canadian politics, but they use the Chinese translated names, hence the confusion. It'll be nice if the ethnic newspaper print out a little guide for their English challenged readers a month before the election. Usually when the people don't understand which party is which, one of the officials explain, but I fear that this gives the official in question too much power, especially in the case of language barriers where the official explaining is the only official that understand the language, the others have no idea if he/she is being neutral and accurate in his/her explanation.
What might also help, is if they have a picture of the leader of the party, not the leader of the riding, up on a wall at the polling station above their names, with the party logo.
lifeisacabaret: Whoa, that borders on racism... what basis do you have for these claims?
gsyh: Defend your accusation, where is the racism in that.
My basis in those "claims", is that I was there, and I speak Chinese (Cantonese) so I understand what those people were asking. It is not a matter of race, but a matter of language barriers, and access to political news and party information. The problem I see within the Chinese voter base, at least among the Cantonese speaking traditional text reading which is what I know, is that they are interested in exercising their political right, but their accessibility to information on politics is limited, especially for the older generations. Some of older generation Chinese can’t read because there were great hardships after the world war and the civil war, and it’s even more difficult if they are a woman in her granny years. One of my older relative in her 90s, despite her family’s relative wealth, never learnt to read because at the time the culture doesn’t demand it.
Also, after the age 8, it is very hard to learn a new language, especially if the English not as a first language people are already out of school. I have relatives who have been here for a decade and they still couldn't understand too well, so they rely on the Chinese media, the TV and radio, uses translation of politician and party names, and I don’t recall any issue of Ming Pao explaining the voting process, although there was something on gay marriage earlier. What will also be confusing, is that some Chinese parents will rest their vote on education, I’ve heard a mother basically ask the poll official which is the party that supports education and childcare the most because she’ll vote for that, and the poll official appropriately answer that she don’t know. What if the poll official were bias though? Simply answering the question by telling the name of the party she supports?
Honestly, don't jump to accusations of racism, such things should not be use as a card in an argument, especially when you don't back it up.
lifeisacabaret: I wasn't "jumping to accusations" I was asking for clarification... which you gave amply and I thank you for that.
I think you need a vacation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let it be noted that Ms lifeisacabaret has disagreement with me elsewhere, and this is not her first personal attack. This is the first one that gets to me though, it's a serious matter, I don't like to see it use as it tool, racism is very hurtful and while Canada is a overall lovely country I did run into assholes and scary people when I was younger, and there are others out there too. Let it be noted also that Ms lifeisacabaret, typical of her kind who are moral hypocrites, is not sincerely sorry at all that she accused me of being a racist, and instead suggest that I need a vacation.
ETA: It was so much easier to just ignore people like her and other who bothers or distrubs me as a child, because the others were children and they do not have the power an adult like her would have, the right to vote, to influence, to affect. Turning the other way, bad things would happen, bit by bit.