Thoughts on "Out of Mind, Out of Sight"

[gryfndor_godess]

You know what's neat? When you haven’t seen a BtVS episode in so long that you actually don’t remember the details. I liked this episode a lot the first time around, but I’d never rewatched it until today.

Comments

[bluemage55]

Xander: [info]gabrielleabelle ’s feminist filter has made me more aware of sexism in the show, and boy does Xander’s comment about using invisibility to guard the girls’ locker room annoy me more now than I'm sure it did five years ago. Worse, no one calls him on it. Ugh.

All males being perverts is a fairly standard trope to play for laughs. I assume no one calls him on it because it's expected and accepted as 'normal teenage boy' behavior, no different from the way he thinks about sex every few seconds.

This is rather troubling for a theoretically feminist shows, because when men internalize the belief that they can't control their own sexual urges, you get the 'logical' foundations of victim-blaming.

Also, after Angel rescues him, Willow, and Giles from the basement, Xander says, “Hi! What do you want?” I can’t believe his rudeness after Angel just saved his life. Double ugh. I definitely prefer later seasons Xander.He's a huge jerk to Spike later on too. His behavior towards Angel and Spike seem motivated by a strong distrust

[gryfndor_godess]

because when men internalize the belief that they can't control their own sexual urges, you get the 'logical' foundations of victim-blaming.

Yup. I'd argue it's troubling for any show, not just feminist ones. I don't care if it's a standard trope. It's offensive, and I expect Joss to be better than that. Sigh.

He's a huge jerk to Spike later on too. His behavior towards Angel and Spike seem motivated by a strong distrust of guys with dark/demonic pasts.

Xander's aggression toward Spike doesn't bother me much because Spike was a villain when they first met and actively tried to kill them. Spike kidnapped him. It doesn't mean I like Xander's attitude, but it makes emotional/logical sense to me, and I don't begrudge him for holding a grudge. OTOH, Xander's dislike of Angel prior to Angelus seems mostly motivated by his jealousy over Buffy and the feeling that he "deserves" her because he's the 'nice,' normal human guy. I'm sure Angel being a vampire is part of it (theoretically there's Jesse angst, although the writers so so

[bluemage55]

OTOH, Xander's dislike of Angel prior to Angelus seems mostly motivated by his jealousy over Buffy and the feeling that he "deserves" her because he's the 'nice,' normal human guy. I'm sure Angel being a vampire is part of it (theoretically there's Jesse angst, although the writers so so dropped the ball on that), but I think the majority of it is Xander feeling threatened in regard to Buffy and that's just petty, chauvinistic, and icky. After Angelus, he'll have legitimate reasons to hate Angel, and as with Spike, I don't blame him for that.

I think it's initially motivated by jealousy, but it's along the same lines of the way he feels about Owen at first (and though it's petty and icky, it's hardly chauvinistic and little different from how Willow feels jealousy towards Xander giving his attention to Buffy and later Cordy). The part where it turns into full-blown hostility is when he finds out that Angel is a vampire.

And though Xander did have legitimate reason to hate Angelus, I think it's clear that he Xander understands that

[gryfndor_godess]

And though Xander did have legitimate reason to hate Angelus, I think it's clear that he Xander understands that Angel isn't responsible for Angelus's actions, but hates him anyway (even after Angel has helped the Scoobies substantially).

I'm not sure I agree that this convo indicates that Xander thinks they're two entirely different people. He hates the curse, i.e. he hates the fact that Angel is artificially constructed to be something he's inherently not and that Angel consequently gets to be the hero/get the girl etc. He knows that Angel is "different" from Angelus, but I doubt he sees the black-and-white distinction as much as Buffy. *shrugs* Or maybe I'm projecting 'cause we fans know there isn't such a b-a-w distinction. In any case, I still think Xander's hatred is justifiable (if not laudable).

[snickfic]

The later seasons gear so much more toward season-long arcs and run-of-the-mill monsters, rather than the “mystery-of-the-week” episodes more common in S1, that I’d forgotten how involved Buffy can get in the “searching for clues” aspect of cases (and see how easy it is to use the word ‘case’? I can’t do that much in later seasons).

Yes. One thing I've learned from watching SPN is that I actually really enjoy those kinds of stories. In Buffy S1 (and, let's be honest, quite often on SPN) the case is pretty cheesy and logic is optional, but the basic, "helping people, killing things" storyline is one I enjoy a lot. It's the reason I like "Killed by Death" so much that I put it in my top ten - it's Buffy being heroic while feeling yucky, which is like heroism squared.

boy does Xander’s comment about using invisibility to guard the girls’ locker room annoy me more now than I'm sure it did five years ago.I have nothing good to say about Xander until probably mid-S5. And the show's ongoing misapprehension that hormones = humor pretty much

[gryfndor_godess]

It's the reason I like "Killed by Death" so much

That episode scared me more than any BtVS episode other than "Hush," but I really like it too. Buffy is brave and strong and won't give up, the villain is cleverly executed and creative, and the the episode has that "creepy-scary" vibe similar to S1. Plus, not a lot of Angel. Maybe I'll rewatch that episode sometime too

[gryfndor_godess]

Thanks! I agree about Angel being more interesting with other characters, and Angelus is certainly fun to watch.

As a huge Xander fan, I like him in all seasons.

Xander's the kind of character where even though I have definite preferences, I never wish he weren't on the show. I love him as a character in the early seasons b/c he is quite complicated- screwing up so much but ultimately loyal and helpful and integral to the team- even if I don't like him much as a person, if you know what I mean. If a character is a jerk, like Xander sometimes is, I still appreciate him as long as I understand why he's a jerk- and I actually think most of his immaturity about Angel is understandable. I think the only time in the series where I actually, genuinely loathe him is in "Entropy" when he's slut-shaming Anya.

Love your icon! I'm not a slasher, but Xander & Spike friendship is one of my favorite platonic pairings to write.

[gryfndor_godess]

I wish Joss gave us Spander friendship in S7

YES. I'm pretty sure they have more in common than either would like to admit. Part of the reason I adore "Him," despite the wonky, kind of misogynistic tone, is the fact that Xander and Spike work together to save the day. I plan to write a fic someday about early S7 Spuffy from Xander's POV b/c it's so strange how not too long into the season he just accepts Spike as one of the group- and yet it totally works, doesn't feel OOC at all. I also love in LMPTM how Xander instinctively claps Spike on the shoulder after chaining him up. I think you can tell that Nick and James were closer than their characters.

I've never rewatched "Revelations," so I don't remember his asshattery much, except that he sent Faith after Angel. Word on the anger management. It's a shame Joss never addressed the impact of his family issues on Xander; kind of how he never addresses Willow's control issues... We don't really get to see the Scoobies' growing up process, unfortunately.

LOVE this icon too! I