Buffy is an enormous jerk for saying, “But, Spike, if I were trying to have a normal life…you’d be exactly what I’d be running from,”
That was my initial reaction, too, except I used words much stronger than "jerk." :-P But, when I went over it again and thought about everything she's been saying lately (e.g., she fails at normal, she's not ready for responsibility), I think she was trying to say that she isn't looking for "normal." She tried normal with the job and friends and apartment, but all that went to pot. She wound up living with a vampire on an inter-dimensional-traveling spaceship, complaining about giant insect legs littering her room. I think maybe she's beginning to realize that "normal" isn't her cup of tea, but she said it in the complete the wrong way. She realizes she screwed up, but it's too late. If someone had said those words to me, I would have heard them exactly as Spike did. I admire his ability to walk away; I probably would have throttled her. :-P
“I can give you what you need. I want normal, too. And I want it with you” makes me ADLFKJADLKFJALFKJALDFJALKDJFADFKJADLKF.
I know, right? Any woman who doesn't swoon at those words would have to be made of stone...or, you know, plastic and wires. :-P
I think maybe she's beginning to realize that "normal" isn't her cup of tea, but she said it in the complete the wrong way.
Yeah... I can see Buffy phrasing something innocuous in a way that seemed hurtful, but I have a hard time seeing that in this situation. I don't think she meant to hurt him or be mean, but I don't think the sentiment is innocuous; her tone seems very sincere, as though she really thinks that Spike couldn't be an integral part of a normal life.
I'm also confused because in the previous issue she said she couldn't have a child right now because her human life was in such shambles, whereas here, it seems she's back to thinking that having a child is impossible because she's a slayer ("If I was going to flout every slayer instinct..."). The way she described it last issue, her slayer instincts and motherhood were compatible because she had support from him, Dawn, Xander, etc.; it was the "Buffy" part of her that wasn't ready. So maybe her implication is supposed to be that she'd be okay with daddy!Spike if she were still slaying and they weren't going for "normal." But that's a very convoluted way of thinking, and even if that is her thought process, I still doubt she actually understands him and how he's changed because this-
But, Spike, if I were trying to have a normal life...you'd be exactly what I'd be running from"
-is flat out wrong. She'd be running from the monsters. Spike's not a monster anymore.
Even if she didn't want a normal life for herself, it's still pretty awful to imply that Spike couldn't be normal." I'm sure there are lots of normal human women besides Buffy who would take him the way he is (*raises hand*). :/
I don't know any of that makes sense. I'm having trouble describing my thoughts. Which I guess makes sense since the page itself is not clear. :)
Any woman who doesn't swoon at those words would have to be made of stone...or, you know, plastic and wires. :-P
Well, I think by definition, "normal" implies "good" and "right." Clearly that isn't always the case since context is everything (not to mention subjective), but since "abnormal" is in general used to imply that there's something wrong with someone/something, I think "normal" implies "acceptable/correct/best."
So while I'm sure Buffy didn't mean to hurt him, and I don't know if she aspires to be normal or what her context is, I think that yes, the statement "you're not normal" is inherently offensive.
I don't think that "normal" necessarily means "good" and it certainly doesn't mean "best". Sometimes it may be used positively if only to imply a lack of a negative characteristic (while it doesn't imply the presence of a particularly positive one), but by definition, it means means ordinary, conforming to standards, which is closer to "average" than "good" or "bad". For instance, if being a hero who saves the world is "good", then good, in this case, is not normal. Being exceptional puts you outside of the realm of normalcy. I just looked at dictionary.com and it gives these definitions:
nor·mal [nawr-muhl] Show IPA adjective 1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural. 2. serving to establish a standard. 3. Psychology . a. approximately average in any psychological trait, as intelligence, personality, or emotional adjustment. b. free from any mental disorder; sane.
So, according to one of the definitions in psychology, exceptional intelligence, for instance, would make one not normal.
Here we're talking about "normal life". What is normal life? Life that conforms to some common standards, ordinary life. Does everyone want to have a normal life? Not really. Lots of people wants to have extraordinary lives. Lots of people lead a normal life and find it boring and unsatisfying. It's usually those who feel denied "normalcy" that even put it forth as something good and desirable. But a lot of people who do have normal lives would like something different. And some people chose not to have a normal life because it doesn't appeal to them. The idea that normal life is something that everyone should strive to conform to is... well, conformist.
This is something we're just going to have to agree to disagree on because I think "you're not normal" is inherently offensive, if said without context, and clearly you don't. I don't think Buffy intended any harm, but I also don't think Spike was being too sensitive. It was a miscommunication, and I happen to sympathize more with Spike.
It's not "You're not normal" but "I'd be running away from you if I were trying to have a normal life", though... which, when you're not running away or trying to have a normal life, does not mean the same as when you are (context and gestures/intonation make the difference). I bet there are a lot of people who'd be more flattered to think of themselves as people you don't try to have an ordinary life with, than as people one would look for if one was to settle down and lead the 'normal life' with. (I think I'm one of those.) But it's a matter of taste.
I agree it's miscommunication, though, and Spike's reading is easy to see, and it's completely unsurprising that he felt offended.
That was my initial reaction, too, except I used words much stronger than "jerk." :-P But, when I went over it again and thought about everything she's been saying lately (e.g., she fails at normal, she's not ready for responsibility), I think she was trying to say that she isn't looking for "normal." She tried normal with the job and friends and apartment, but all that went to pot. She wound up living with a vampire on an inter-dimensional-traveling spaceship, complaining about giant insect legs littering her room. I think maybe she's beginning to realize that "normal" isn't her cup of tea, but she said it in the complete the wrong way. She realizes she screwed up, but it's too late. If someone had said those words to me, I would have heard them exactly as Spike did. I admire his ability to walk away; I probably would have throttled her. :-P
“I can give you what you need. I want normal, too. And I want it with you” makes me ADLFKJADLKFJALFKJALDFJALKDJFADFKJADLKF.
I know, right? Any woman who doesn't swoon at those words would have to be made of stone...or, you know, plastic and wires. :-P
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Yeah... I can see Buffy phrasing something innocuous in a way that seemed hurtful, but I have a hard time seeing that in this situation. I don't think she meant to hurt him or be mean, but I don't think the sentiment is innocuous; her tone seems very sincere, as though she really thinks that Spike couldn't be an integral part of a normal life.
I'm also confused because in the previous issue she said she couldn't have a child right now because her human life was in such shambles, whereas here, it seems she's back to thinking that having a child is impossible because she's a slayer ("If I was going to flout every slayer instinct..."). The way she described it last issue, her slayer instincts and motherhood were compatible because she had support from him, Dawn, Xander, etc.; it was the "Buffy" part of her that wasn't ready. So maybe her implication is supposed to be that she'd be okay with daddy!Spike if she were still slaying and they weren't going for "normal." But that's a very convoluted way of thinking, and even if that is her thought process, I still doubt she actually understands him and how he's changed because this-
But, Spike, if I were trying to have a normal life...you'd be exactly what I'd be running from"
-is flat out wrong. She'd be running from the monsters. Spike's not a monster anymore.
Even if she didn't want a normal life for herself, it's still pretty awful to imply that Spike couldn't be normal." I'm sure there are lots of normal human women besides Buffy who would take him the way he is (*raises hand*). :/
I don't know any of that makes sense. I'm having trouble describing my thoughts. Which I guess makes sense since the page itself is not clear. :)
Any woman who doesn't swoon at those words would have to be made of stone...or, you know, plastic and wires. :-P
HEE! :D
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So while I'm sure Buffy didn't mean to hurt him, and I don't know if she aspires to be normal or what her context is, I think that yes, the statement "you're not normal" is inherently offensive.
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nor·mal
[nawr-muhl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.
2.
serving to establish a standard.
3.
Psychology .
a.
approximately average in any psychological trait, as intelligence, personality, or emotional adjustment.
b.
free from any mental disorder; sane.
So, according to one of the definitions in psychology, exceptional intelligence, for instance, would make one not normal.
Here we're talking about "normal life". What is normal life? Life that conforms to some common standards, ordinary life. Does everyone want to have a normal life? Not really. Lots of people wants to have extraordinary lives. Lots of people lead a normal life and find it boring and unsatisfying. It's usually those who feel denied "normalcy" that even put it forth as something good and desirable. But a lot of people who do have normal lives would like something different. And some people chose not to have a normal life because it doesn't appeal to them. The idea that normal life is something that everyone should strive to conform to is... well, conformist.
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I agree it's miscommunication, though, and Spike's reading is easy to see, and it's completely unsurprising that he felt offended.
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