"I Got a Boy"--it couldn't be clearer, right?
I haven't thought about or really listened to SNSD in quite some time, but apparently falling hardcore into a new (old) fandom--wait a second, savoring the thought of toppy!Dr. Hotpants . . . okay, done*--can make you curious to revisit old ones to see what they're up to.
*Allow me a brief detour: "The Erotic Education of Anna Silk: the Lost Girl star on playing a bisexual succubus" by Emily Landau, Toronto Life (Feb 02, 2013). This is probably a good primer article, but more than that there are some choice lines here (all emphases are mine):
"Where Lost Girl sets itself apart is the sex, and not just the sheer quantity of it, though Silk fakes more onscreen copulation than any other TV actor not contractually bound to HBO." [I laughed way louder at this than I should have, especially since how much sex and nudity there is in Game of Thrones is basically my every other thought. A GoT actress baring her breasts? Contract fulfillment.]
"Though Bo is the first bisexual lead character on mainstream television, her orientation is never mentioned on the show. She sleeps with whomever she wants, unrestricted by the shackles of monogamy. Moreover, she likes it (a lot, judging from her vociferous orgasms) and suffers no censure or slut shaming. The show lingers lecherously on the supple, sweaty bodies of its comely cast, but never attaches any moral value to the act itself. Lost Girl seamlessly unifies sex and sexual politics, delighting in the pleasure of the former and taking a stand on the latter. Somehow, a humble, medium-budget fantasy show from Toronto has become the most sexually progressive thing on TV."
"Because Lost Girl doesn’t show nipples or genitals, it can air in prime time-a huge boon in terms of advertising potential. Still, Firestone wishes it were racier. 'We’ve had a couple of disagreements about what we show-sex positions, how much nudity, what kind of nudity,' he remarks. 'It would be more fun if we didn’t have the restrictions, but we might not reach the same audience as we do.'" [Kind of makes you wonder exactly what the specifics of those arguments were. I've always accepted the limits of what we could see on the show--cable--but knowing that Firestone wanted/wants more is very intriguing to me. I've honestly wondered if there'd be a strap-on at any point. I remember one of Kenzi's jokes--"Honey, if I could give you the six inch, all our problems would be solved"--that immediately made me go, "Um, you can, Kenz. You can."]
"The sex is masterfully choreographed, executed with such deft blocking that you’d swear you were seeing everything. Silk raves about the respectfulness of the crew and the sensitivity of the writers-she says the sex on the show always feels character-motivated and never exploitative. 'I could probably write a book on sex scenes at this point,' she says." [Ahahahahahahahaha. Ms. Silk, please do.]
"In the first season of the show, Silk’s scenes with Zoie Palmer were more feminized and tender, full of satiny bedsheets and soft light. They were the total opposite of her barn-burning, animalistic encounters with Holden-Ried; while Bo and Lauren made love, Bo and Dyson screwed. Since then, though, the show has strived to dismantle those stereotypes-the two women are having increasingly aggressive sex. A scene in the upcoming third season is one of their most blatantly carnal yet, a series of extreme close-ups as the two women desperately tongue, grope and grind each other, dripping with enough sweat to fill a bathtub." [That would be 3X04. The opening of 3x04.]
"It’s not enough for Silk and Palmer’s fans to watch them on the show-in fan fiction, favourite characters act out elaborate erotic fantasies. On Doccubus.com, the message forum lists over 16,000 posts, including an Anna Silk appreciation thread and a section devoted to “Fan Creations”-fan fiction, anime drawings of the characters, photo collages. The fan fiction is especially intense: there are over 450 submissions on FanFiction.net, one clocking in at 150,000 words (that would translate to about 600 pages in small-format paperback). Many pieces are X-rated, filled with pornographic interactions between the characters." [Is mentioning fanfic a regular thing when addressing shows now? Or is this just a random Toronto publication taking note thing? Because they went on to quote some of that X-rated fanfic, which maybe put a blush on my face thinking that something from the fandom bubble world leaked into the media world. It was a weird moment.]
Good grief. That would be SSF's translation of an interview SNSD did with TVReport during these "I Got a Boy" promos--or rather "interview," since it's supposed to be some free-for-all casual "chatting time" between the members.
Let's talk about this article.
I am so struck by how, after a long hiatus from SNSD, what floated to the forefront of my thoughts as I read this was "They seem to be trying so hard to say something without saying it." Sometimes that something seems to be a preemptive cover-up attempt. Other times it's like some silent plea for understanding, lenience, and wiggle room. Sadly, though, it didn't really feel like a giggly, good-times-all-around chat between friends, but came off as a careful dance around sticky topics. (Though I am endlessly amused how they seem to have made the members ask these prearranged, scripted questions to the rest of the group.)
Right off the bat: The professed need for nine-member activities. My eyebrows flirted with the top of my hairline as I noted that the ones particularly emphasizing the need for nine members are SeoHyun and Fany. Who just so happened to have enjoyed unit activities as part of TTS.
Girls--no, you're not girls anymore (but we'll get to that)--I'm glad you had your TTS experience to put into perspective that you really need nine members (to fill a stage?) . . . and that the unit activities were ~awesome~ and you'd totally be open to doing some more. I get it. And I trust you as reliable sources to provide such insights.
Also, lol, "We don't need to win and receive a trophy." I totally believe you, because those are definitely not marks of the success of your songs and/or measures of your continuing relevance in the K-pop scene. Not at all.
Re: Talk about song lyrics written by members of SNSD. Oh my God. Wow. Awkward. On one hand--and first and foremost in the consideration of their personal journeys of growth as artists--good on the members whose lyrics were judged as acceptable for album songs. That is, no sarcasm here, really awesome and pleasantly surprising that SM is allowing them latitude and opportunities in this area.
On the other hand, wow, no hard feelings or bitterness or possible feelings of being slighted/pigeon-holed/not good enough to all those whose work wasn't featured on the album. No, really. It's sort of amazing how much could be unpacked from that short an exchange. Wow.
Re: Costumes. They've had other concepts without heels, right? What's interesting to me is that they talk about the utility of their former costumes and don't touch on some of the absolute ridiculousness of some of their stage costumes. Honestly, I would love a frank discussion of their concepts and the members' ratings on scales of "Embarrassed Forever/Never Live It Down" to "Mothereffin' Genius." I have to say I'm surprised at the fervor with which they detest the uncomfortableness of their previous concept costumes here.
Re: "Dancing Queen." Aside from the embarrassment factor coming out here, Taeng's comment really sticks out to me. Her words imply that they were way more self-conscious and mindful of appearances as opposed to, assumably, how they present themselves and perform now. I wonder in exactly what regard. I find it hard to believe idols aren't ever extremely high maintenance. Then there's SeoHyun: "[R]ather than trying to enjoy it, we tried to work hard. We probably put in a lot of effort to look pretty, but we looked really cute." The first part makes a lot of sense when you consider this was before "Gee" and they hadn't hit that stride of overwhelming, guaranteed success yet. But . . . that kind of makes you wonder if, now they've hit that easy wave of success, they can take a moment to enjoy things banking on there being an ardent fandom-supported safety net. I suppose I would ask if they do enjoy what they do.
There are some barbs lurking in some of their responses that would make me tread carefully in making any assumption along those lines. A nibbling at the bit, perhaps.
Re: Getting older. There it is, that defensive, almost apprehensive acknowledgement of ageing and having to defend not only their self-labeling but also kind of their right to be in the K-pop idol scene while simultaneously wanting to embrace their actual age and all the trappings that come with adulthood . . . like that it should be perfectly acceptable for them to date (and it is very highly likely that a number of them have dated, are dating). Yeah, there's the jumping the gun straight-to-marriage thing, but they've talked like that for so many years now that I automatically dismiss it. Interesting. Though really, really interesting that it's SeoHyun who jumps on that marriage train.
Seobaby, who are you dating?
Again, Taeng has this interesting assertion: "As time goes by, fans will probably press us to date. And to hurry and get married and have kids."
Fans will press you to date? . . . I don't know about that. I mean, I've always wanted them to date, but I'm that fan whose a thorn in your side, not the one offering my shoulders to boost you up. Besides the potential for scandal--I love a good scandal--I've always thought it'd be healthy for them to be in romantic relationships. But the larger fandom? Members marrying could hinge on and imply a number of things:
1) Your idol is married. That is, they are actually, for real unavailable. Your idol is also having sex. If not before that ring goes on her finger, then definitely afterwards. She is no longer pure!** She is also not having sex with you. (Though if the person she is having sex with is hot, that is understandable. If that person is not hot, that's probably a lot less understandable to the fan mindset. Not that the fans have a right to judge or a right to an opinion in such matters, but that's how it goes.)
**Does this/slut-shaming apply to male idols?
2) Marriage usually means the end or a radical change to a female entertainer's career. Particularly if that woman is having children.
3) That career change would most likely herald a change to SNSD itself, either an adjustment or a disbanding. That "Nothing without 9!" thing would have to start hanging on things like honeymoons and maternity leave and all that intrusive personal stuff.
Yeah.
The ongoing fascination/fixation on the "girls" part of "Girls' Generation" is part of a dialogue between parties that I can't really define. It's interesting to me that part of the defensive argument is that "Super Junior" is not composed of men who would be considered "juniors" anymore? (Was this ever an issue with SJ's members were getting up in years or only something worth pointing out because SNSD is ageing?) What it is is this active, veiled commentary about the short shelf-life of female idols. The real question is really, "How long does SNSD think that SNSD is viable as a female idol unit? How long do you plan to stick around?" That's the real, loaded question that comes with all those sly implications: Are you really not dating? Do you really plan to remain a "girl" group?
In some ways, it's like the media wants them to woman up, but they're caught between the tensions of Idol-dom saying, "No, you can't" and the rest of society going, "But you're at the right age (and should enjoy your age)." Which circles me back to TaeYeon's comment about their fans eventually clamoring for them to get married. But they're in that Catch-22 for women: Career vs. Family.
(And some other catches, I think, including Group vs. Individual Interest, but those are other issues that can depend on how that Career vs. Family plays out.)
The thing is, the members of SNSD are not old, not by a long shot. They're just old by idol standards.
*Allow me a brief detour: "The Erotic Education of Anna Silk: the Lost Girl star on playing a bisexual succubus" by Emily Landau, Toronto Life (Feb 02, 2013). This is probably a good primer article, but more than that there are some choice lines here (all emphases are mine):
"Where Lost Girl sets itself apart is the sex, and not just the sheer quantity of it, though Silk fakes more onscreen copulation than any other TV actor not contractually bound to HBO." [I laughed way louder at this than I should have, especially since how much sex and nudity there is in Game of Thrones is basically my every other thought. A GoT actress baring her breasts? Contract fulfillment.]
"Though Bo is the first bisexual lead character on mainstream television, her orientation is never mentioned on the show. She sleeps with whomever she wants, unrestricted by the shackles of monogamy. Moreover, she likes it (a lot, judging from her vociferous orgasms) and suffers no censure or slut shaming. The show lingers lecherously on the supple, sweaty bodies of its comely cast, but never attaches any moral value to the act itself. Lost Girl seamlessly unifies sex and sexual politics, delighting in the pleasure of the former and taking a stand on the latter. Somehow, a humble, medium-budget fantasy show from Toronto has become the most sexually progressive thing on TV."
"Because Lost Girl doesn’t show nipples or genitals, it can air in prime time-a huge boon in terms of advertising potential. Still, Firestone wishes it were racier. 'We’ve had a couple of disagreements about what we show-sex positions, how much nudity, what kind of nudity,' he remarks. 'It would be more fun if we didn’t have the restrictions, but we might not reach the same audience as we do.'" [Kind of makes you wonder exactly what the specifics of those arguments were. I've always accepted the limits of what we could see on the show--cable--but knowing that Firestone wanted/wants more is very intriguing to me. I've honestly wondered if there'd be a strap-on at any point. I remember one of Kenzi's jokes--"Honey, if I could give you the six inch, all our problems would be solved"--that immediately made me go, "Um, you can, Kenz. You can."]
"The sex is masterfully choreographed, executed with such deft blocking that you’d swear you were seeing everything. Silk raves about the respectfulness of the crew and the sensitivity of the writers-she says the sex on the show always feels character-motivated and never exploitative. 'I could probably write a book on sex scenes at this point,' she says." [Ahahahahahahahaha. Ms. Silk, please do.]
"In the first season of the show, Silk’s scenes with Zoie Palmer were more feminized and tender, full of satiny bedsheets and soft light. They were the total opposite of her barn-burning, animalistic encounters with Holden-Ried; while Bo and Lauren made love, Bo and Dyson screwed. Since then, though, the show has strived to dismantle those stereotypes-the two women are having increasingly aggressive sex. A scene in the upcoming third season is one of their most blatantly carnal yet, a series of extreme close-ups as the two women desperately tongue, grope and grind each other, dripping with enough sweat to fill a bathtub." [That would be 3X04. The opening of 3x04.]
"It’s not enough for Silk and Palmer’s fans to watch them on the show-in fan fiction, favourite characters act out elaborate erotic fantasies. On Doccubus.com, the message forum lists over 16,000 posts, including an Anna Silk appreciation thread and a section devoted to “Fan Creations”-fan fiction, anime drawings of the characters, photo collages. The fan fiction is especially intense: there are over 450 submissions on FanFiction.net, one clocking in at 150,000 words (that would translate to about 600 pages in small-format paperback). Many pieces are X-rated, filled with pornographic interactions between the characters." [Is mentioning fanfic a regular thing when addressing shows now? Or is this just a random Toronto publication taking note thing? Because they went on to quote some of that X-rated fanfic, which maybe put a blush on my face thinking that something from the fandom bubble world leaked into the media world. It was a weird moment.]
Good grief. That would be SSF's translation of an interview SNSD did with TVReport during these "I Got a Boy" promos--or rather "interview," since it's supposed to be some free-for-all casual "chatting time" between the members.
Let's talk about this article.
I am so struck by how, after a long hiatus from SNSD, what floated to the forefront of my thoughts as I read this was "They seem to be trying so hard to say something without saying it." Sometimes that something seems to be a preemptive cover-up attempt. Other times it's like some silent plea for understanding, lenience, and wiggle room. Sadly, though, it didn't really feel like a giggly, good-times-all-around chat between friends, but came off as a careful dance around sticky topics. (Though I am endlessly amused how they seem to have made the members ask these prearranged, scripted questions to the rest of the group.)
Right off the bat: The professed need for nine-member activities. My eyebrows flirted with the top of my hairline as I noted that the ones particularly emphasizing the need for nine members are SeoHyun and Fany. Who just so happened to have enjoyed unit activities as part of TTS.
Girls--no, you're not girls anymore (but we'll get to that)--I'm glad you had your TTS experience to put into perspective that you really need nine members (to fill a stage?) . . . and that the unit activities were ~awesome~ and you'd totally be open to doing some more. I get it. And I trust you as reliable sources to provide such insights.
Also, lol, "We don't need to win and receive a trophy." I totally believe you, because those are definitely not marks of the success of your songs and/or measures of your continuing relevance in the K-pop scene. Not at all.
Re: Talk about song lyrics written by members of SNSD. Oh my God. Wow. Awkward. On one hand--and first and foremost in the consideration of their personal journeys of growth as artists--good on the members whose lyrics were judged as acceptable for album songs. That is, no sarcasm here, really awesome and pleasantly surprising that SM is allowing them latitude and opportunities in this area.
On the other hand, wow, no hard feelings or bitterness or possible feelings of being slighted/pigeon-holed/not good enough to all those whose work wasn't featured on the album. No, really. It's sort of amazing how much could be unpacked from that short an exchange. Wow.
Re: Costumes. They've had other concepts without heels, right? What's interesting to me is that they talk about the utility of their former costumes and don't touch on some of the absolute ridiculousness of some of their stage costumes. Honestly, I would love a frank discussion of their concepts and the members' ratings on scales of "Embarrassed Forever/Never Live It Down" to "Mothereffin' Genius." I have to say I'm surprised at the fervor with which they detest the uncomfortableness of their previous concept costumes here.
Re: "Dancing Queen." Aside from the embarrassment factor coming out here, Taeng's comment really sticks out to me. Her words imply that they were way more self-conscious and mindful of appearances as opposed to, assumably, how they present themselves and perform now. I wonder in exactly what regard. I find it hard to believe idols aren't ever extremely high maintenance. Then there's SeoHyun: "[R]ather than trying to enjoy it, we tried to work hard. We probably put in a lot of effort to look pretty, but we looked really cute." The first part makes a lot of sense when you consider this was before "Gee" and they hadn't hit that stride of overwhelming, guaranteed success yet. But . . . that kind of makes you wonder if, now they've hit that easy wave of success, they can take a moment to enjoy things banking on there being an ardent fandom-supported safety net. I suppose I would ask if they do enjoy what they do.
There are some barbs lurking in some of their responses that would make me tread carefully in making any assumption along those lines. A nibbling at the bit, perhaps.
Re: Getting older. There it is, that defensive, almost apprehensive acknowledgement of ageing and having to defend not only their self-labeling but also kind of their right to be in the K-pop idol scene while simultaneously wanting to embrace their actual age and all the trappings that come with adulthood . . . like that it should be perfectly acceptable for them to date (and it is very highly likely that a number of them have dated, are dating). Yeah, there's the jumping the gun straight-to-marriage thing, but they've talked like that for so many years now that I automatically dismiss it. Interesting. Though really, really interesting that it's SeoHyun who jumps on that marriage train.
Seobaby, who are you dating?
Again, Taeng has this interesting assertion: "As time goes by, fans will probably press us to date. And to hurry and get married and have kids."
Fans will press you to date? . . . I don't know about that. I mean, I've always wanted them to date, but I'm that fan whose a thorn in your side, not the one offering my shoulders to boost you up. Besides the potential for scandal--I love a good scandal--I've always thought it'd be healthy for them to be in romantic relationships. But the larger fandom? Members marrying could hinge on and imply a number of things:
1) Your idol is married. That is, they are actually, for real unavailable. Your idol is also having sex. If not before that ring goes on her finger, then definitely afterwards. She is no longer pure!** She is also not having sex with you. (Though if the person she is having sex with is hot, that is understandable. If that person is not hot, that's probably a lot less understandable to the fan mindset. Not that the fans have a right to judge or a right to an opinion in such matters, but that's how it goes.)
**Does this/slut-shaming apply to male idols?
2) Marriage usually means the end or a radical change to a female entertainer's career. Particularly if that woman is having children.
3) That career change would most likely herald a change to SNSD itself, either an adjustment or a disbanding. That "Nothing without 9!" thing would have to start hanging on things like honeymoons and maternity leave and all that intrusive personal stuff.
Yeah.
The ongoing fascination/fixation on the "girls" part of "Girls' Generation" is part of a dialogue between parties that I can't really define. It's interesting to me that part of the defensive argument is that "Super Junior" is not composed of men who would be considered "juniors" anymore? (Was this ever an issue with SJ's members were getting up in years or only something worth pointing out because SNSD is ageing?) What it is is this active, veiled commentary about the short shelf-life of female idols. The real question is really, "How long does SNSD think that SNSD is viable as a female idol unit? How long do you plan to stick around?" That's the real, loaded question that comes with all those sly implications: Are you really not dating? Do you really plan to remain a "girl" group?
In some ways, it's like the media wants them to woman up, but they're caught between the tensions of Idol-dom saying, "No, you can't" and the rest of society going, "But you're at the right age (and should enjoy your age)." Which circles me back to TaeYeon's comment about their fans eventually clamoring for them to get married. But they're in that Catch-22 for women: Career vs. Family.
(And some other catches, I think, including Group vs. Individual Interest, but those are other issues that can depend on how that Career vs. Family plays out.)
The thing is, the members of SNSD are not old, not by a long shot. They're just old by idol standards.