Groan, and the worst bit is all the "NOTHING WITHOUT 9!!!!!!!" people getting so worked up that other people are actully so worked up?!
LOL, YES! "*sigh* I wish the other members would get chances like the more popular ones always seem to get." "How dare you suggest that the other members aren't getting loved!" "Why are people even arguing, we love everyone!!" "OBVIOUSLY EVERYONE IS EQUAL BECAUSE WE THE FANS KEEP SHOUTING POWER OF 9!" "POWER OF NIIIIIIIIIIINE!"
What happens is that the argument itself is lost and the little people feel bullied and the big crowd feel all butt hurt and no one addresses the problems of promotions or that there really is an unequal distribution of not only opportunities but of attention. If fans paid attention to the certain members, more their demand would increase, which is what the fans of those "underrated" members want to bring to the attention of all these fans clamoring for the Big Four to the exclusion of the little guys. *breathes*
I find that that user usually rains on any parade. I've gotten to the point where I see the poster and tell myself not to read the comment posted and I do anyway and get all RAWR! and D:
I love YoonA, but it's true that she can have any opportunity she wants at this point. If SM says, "YoonA is available," shows will grovel for her. Fans of the the "little" members want to develop that same type of demand for their own favorites and to do that you have to give them opportunities to get seen in order to create demand--THAT DAMN CYCLE THAT HYO HAS BEEN SO CUT OUT OF, why?! Seriously, where is the disconnect?!
-shakes head- they've all been bitten by the anti bug, that's why. Either that, or they're being wilfully unrealistic. Seriously, you used to have hope for Hyo too, right? It's only because you've seen so much and bothered to think about her and compare her to other members/other dancer-singers that your view of reality (if it can be called reality, since we're all working from second or third-hand sources :O most of the time) and of Hyo's chances are such. Similarly, imagine me going into the thread and saying "Sooyoung has to fight for work because if you observe blablabla and rationally-speaking, what should she do to increase her chances?", instead of just whining "I hope Sooyoung gets work in 2010!" or blindly proclaiming "It's the year of HyoSunSooHyun in 2010!" It's immediate smackdown from fans who don't want to acknowledge that idoldom is fucking cutthroat, and that SNSD is way lucker than they can imagine, to have such a bond. (I think the WGs have it too, by virtue of their American debut.)
Y'know what, I'm surprised bossa or one of the more mature/in-touch with kpop industry fans haven't stepped in to point out the reality. I'm quite sure bossa or silis (if they aren't the same person) can see what we're saying. Or maybe their status as grandees is such that if you come out on any one side of the debate, it casts your imnpartiality into doubt immediately.
I think it's a combination of not wanting to be a fractured fandom--when I think it is, despite what "power of 9" stalwarts want to believe, for it's difficult not to have favorites and to not be able to tell that plenty of fans are waving individualized placards at shows--and a consequence of having cultivated this kind of "we're nothing without 9" myth. If you're going to toss that phrase around, you have to sort of make yourself believe that nothing is wrong and that everyone who points out discrepancies that threaten "nothing without 9" are in the wrong and are "bad" fans. "Not true sones," if you will.
It's frustrating to me that the fandom can't even see that bonds or no, these girls are really competing for the same opportunities. The resources are limited, just as camera time is limited, so they have to essentially compete with each other. There's a reason why fans cry "Stop trying to steal opportunities from one member to give to another member!" The language itself bares the truth: the girls are as equally out to establish themselves as individuals as they are to do well as a group. They do have to look to the future. It's just good, common sense.
SNSD bonds are of love, yes, but don't deny the currents of jealousy and ambition and even "greed" (camera greed certainly).
Those BNFs almost never involve themselves in such arguments. If anything, they are even more "Power of 9" stalwarts by not speaking out one way or another, willing to let the arguments rage but content to sit back and provide information (and often settle the waters in doing so, as the new information distracts people from discontent or allows for new things to spazz over). They could have great influence in the International fandom's thinking, but they decide not to, perhaps exactly to protect that impartiality that you've mentioned. Their behavior could be admirable or frustrating, depending on which side of the issue you fall on.
What is this power, in the power of 9, anyway? It's the power of trust between girls who are and manage to be both competitors and friends/fellow-supporters; but the way international fans are waving that slogan around, it becomes equated with the power of the fandom itself. So when someone threatens that slogan, it threatens their identity as the fan of a big, strong fandom and by extension, their own strength.
I'm content with a fractured fandom that acknowledges the bond, thank you. I'd rather we acknowledge the status quo--that the thread is Taeng/Yoona biased, and at the same time, a thread for all SNSD fans, and one in which the bias may change, anytime. (It won't, because their fanbases are too big, but Yuri's crept in nicely, as did Jessica from very early on.)
As profs are wont to say, when someone (history/scholars/a powerful faction in society) wants to hide or deny something, it means that that something is powerful and worth looking at.
I'm also all for protecting impartiality, at least for info-providers, and I don't want to see Soy getting involved too much either. (Don't know her personally at all, but seems like a girl with much sense, so her involvement very unlikely.) It'd be so much cooler if the whole thread could say, "We don't care about antis, we can have this discussion if we want." Most antis would be bored stiff and creep away disappointed if there was a real debate going on, anyway, instead of one fuelled by insecurity.
I think tying the fandom like that to the girls is exactly how "idoling" works, that is fans are encouraged to cultivate these perceived ties in which we and the girls are one: SONES-->one with SoShi. Thus the fandom feels that it should be as united as the girls seem to be? And that to rock that boat is to threaten that unity somehow, as if saying that one girl should get more work at the "expense" of another member will make the whole group fall apart! But whether you're talking about SNSD or the fandom itself when you say "the group" becomes difficult to tell because the language and the signifiers have become all tangled up in the minds of the fans.
This is probably why opinions and debates begin to feel like personal threats and becomes bigger than they really are and cries for conformity are put out ("Nothing without 9!" "Power of 9!"). The girls themselves present a united front, so the fandom wants to fall in line.
But that doesn't change the status quo, as you've pointed out. Yet in the fandom's mind (the "whole" where "nothing without 9" is the rule of the day, not for the smaller camps that do exist within the bigger fandom), there isn't a bias, which is why pointing out that YoonA gets so much time to do things is taboo--but at the same time, the fandom is able to acknowledge she is the "face" of SNSD. It feels like a case of doublethink, where the fandom is able to hold two contradictory thoughts in their minds at one time and yet have them both hold true.
Soy touts "power of 9" and "love 'em all." She doesn't get much for meta and debate, I'd say.
instead of one fuelled by insecurity.
I hadn't really thought about it like that until you pointed it out, but, yes, it's really just insecurity across the board. Do they really think a member like HyoYeon getting some promotion by doing a job that YoonA could do could threaten a member with YoonA's status? No. Good God, no. So what would it hurt? It wouldn't. But it would hurt YoonA fans because they "lose" something. Again, a fractured fanbase that can't see that it's fractured.
Ah, but Soy does love them all, while reserving her personal bias for Fany. She never takes away from another member to give to Fany, so to speak, but she gives extra love to Fany, and she's open about it. Whereas some fans are mistakenly perceiving these "under-rated" members' fans' actions as "taking away from Yoon/Taeng" to give to members whom they can respect (or at least not criticize openly) but won't actively support.
Anyway, by virtue of her position as founder of SSF, Soy can't say anything beyond that, it'd be too divisive. (Think of it as ministers delivering beeyootiful slogans in speeches to unify the country, and their secretaries/civil servants/the media sweating over the meta.) I don't want her to be divisive, we need someone with clout to tout the power of 9, and I'm glad she came up with it to grow the fanbase in the first place. It might have led to this current ferment in soompi, but at least there're now enough fans for it to be going on. Let's put it this way, at least there're enough people out there in the Intl Fandom for this to matter. It might even ferment well, and we might end up with....kimchi.
Sorry, it was a serious post until then, and I blame Craver for that joke. =(
Bossa seems to have tweeted about wanting it to be a united fandom for all 9 girls, and I hope he stops there, because that's leaning towards Not Thinking Blindly Supporting already. (For a Sooyoung fan, he's awfully optimistic.)
I wasn't reflecting badly on Soy. Just pointing out that she isn't one for the debates going on. I think any international fan is thankful for what SSF has provided (although, interestingly, I still see lingering posts of AMBN board peoples bashing SSF, which is an interesting tidbit of history that always made me curious), even if I myself needed to take the expression of my fandom away from SSF's forums just because it was so stiflingly "POWER OF 9!"
Seeing how quickly everyone wants everyone else to shut up in soompi, probably little ferment in the long run. SSF is even more close-mouthed on dissent. Soompi is the more "open" forum, I'd argue. I'd sooner bring my ire to soompi than I would to SSF, so to speak, probably because it's easier to reach readers without having divided forums that . . . house a fractured fandom. LOL
I've been talking about SooYoung a lot in the past two days or so that the mention of her name just makes me wonder about her all over again. A member who does get work but not the type of work/exposure that the others do . . . on one hand, there's a constant level of encouragement for her fans; on the other hand, it's exactly like getting a taste of the feast but watching the bigger hitters (YulTi on MuCore, TaeYeon on ChinChin, perhaps even Sunny on The M) get to devour the roast turkey.
Oh, I wasn't saying you were criticizing her, just in case you thought I was. --What on earth is it about our conversations that always have us slightly missing the point, thereby extending your comments thread unnecessarily?! Nvm, I still heart you and your journal. (My laptop begs to disagree, it's still bearing a grudge against the 400comment Thread of Doom.) I'm so glad I can come here and not only write what I honestly think (damned idiot fandom! Damned prs! and Damn Stylists!), but also read without rolling my eyes, and read about members (ok fine, Hyo) who don't even get spazzed about much, let alone spazzed about intelligently on ssf and soompi. Not to insult those who did write intelligently and coherently about her, but you could only hold up for so long without any replies before falling back into silence, sadly. Here it feels like a conversation, you know what I mean? Hrm, titling your a "Convenient Distraction" suddenly seems so apt and so...prophetic. =D
LOL, it's the Internets. It's hard because you can't hear tones and see expressions, which is what helps convey so much on their own. =) And we like comment spam, so it's all good. (ROFL, you still try visiting the Post of Doom?!)
I'm really glad to attract people willing to talk. I aim to have conversations here; it broadens both sides if both sides are willing to listen. It's been wonderful to really hold conversations and to be challenged and, in turn, to challenge others' thinking. I'm not like Craver and them who can take their crusades elsewhere; I need a comfortable space to express myself. If others find it safe and comfortable, too, I'm glad. But we are ranting in a little corner of the Internets; I wish I did have the patience and courage to go out there and fight the good fight. I almost did the crazy thing and posted this in soompi, for example, but then I realized that was a Bad Idea.
I mention the other members . . . sometimes. XD I let you guys point out all the awesome things they're doing that I missed, lol.
LOL, this journal has been serving as a distraction for me for many years now, rofl.
My laptop is still bearing a grudge from the last time I visited it what, 2 days ago? Dude(tte), you got more hits and intelligent/funny ones there than many of the kpop sites out there! (I realised that that sounds like I'm praising myself and the posters. Hrm. T'was not the intention, I assure you.)
Hey, why not invite that soompi poster you almost PM-ed to come here? (Is he/she a Hyo fan, do you know?). I have to stop myself from pimping out this place because it's yours, the comment threads are quite scary I must say, and the LJ comm is kinda bare at the moment.
Not to give you more work or to sound imposing, but ever considered tidying up some of your more epic posts here for the LJ comm and providing that with a link for the comments thread here? It'll give casual fans/browsers much better access to Hyo posts, and would help pimp her out--I'm sure there're SNSD fans who go round looking at SNSD community journals and you just might troll another one in (KOFFKOFFlikemeKOFFKOFF) much more easily that way as compared to a personal journal. Not to mention quite a few of your Hyo and SNSD posts are detailed and logical enough to be a shining source of pride, and augmented by the riches found by hyoyeonfan/HYJ/CP and whoever else I'm missing out (sorry!)
LOL, I don't mind if you pimp this journal out as I want to think I can do my little bit for Hyo!fandom. I find it more puzzling when people pimp posts out and I have no idea where people are coming from and how they found this place. I honestly feel like throwing the link to the "How do you solve a problem like HyoYeon?" post at everyone who ever brings up the issue and keeps touting that 2010 is her year. (Almost again today.) That post was also inspired by a soompi post and the amazing thing was that that entire conversation took place before "Strong Heart" ever occurred.
One of the problems is that so much of the awesome of a lot of posts appeared in the comments. All I did was start a conversation in most cases and it really got the ball rolling as people objected, added to it, or thought their ways through the issues. So "cleaning" up a post to present is really, really difficult because the conversations were what was important and it's in being willing to read all of that that you get the value of them. I do try to tag all the "serious business" posts for people to be able to find.
Our Post of Doom actually had some really good running conversations about members and promotion. SooYoung, again, came up a lot, and we talked a lot about vocalists and their voice quality and their futures (esp. Tiffany in this regard). I wish there was a way to present all this but our posts in comments tend to cover several topics all at once, which is also where it gets really messy to try and "clean up."
What might be nice would be to have a roundtable discussion. To sit down a bunch of people and just draw up a whole list of questions and have everyone answer. I haven't tried to do this in the past because I'd've felt like I was throwing questions out into the Internet ether, lol. But it may work if we could get people to sit down. Or even have a real time chat if we could arrange times and just post up the transcripts. I'd love to try something like that.
Hmm, maybe I'll have a try at compiling when I'm free--I'd put the question, and the relevant comments together, maybe incl. those from other posts, but that'd require some amount of editorial freeway that I'm not sure people would be willing to give i.e. having one's comments quoted. I just want people to see the good stuff (or serious bidness), because I swear there are more people reading than writing here and in the comm (HI, LURKERS, WE DON'T BITE), but not everyone might have started reading as early as you started writing (or the comments started ballooning).
When you say "roundtable", do you mean on the LJ comm?
I'd love to try a real-time chat too! Although I suspect what goes on in the comment-madness is a sort of real-time chat with lagging.
HYJ once told me that everything she posted here was my property, lol. That said, I think it would be a ton more work than you think, lol, unless you've already taken a look at what you'd like to put up? Because even going through 50 comments that are all Walls of Text can be incredibly time-consuming.
Yes, I think the comm would be a nice place to do it or even a real-time chat carried out in roundtable fashion so that we could have a posting order when presenting a question and that would allow responses without it being crazily willy-nilly, and we would start each question with a new person starting and go around one-by-one. I've seen some nice roundtable discussions pulled off in J-pop-fen.
I can't say I remember where all the Hyo stuff is, but it'd be a work-in-progress that I'd want to get out in the public eye sooner rather than later. My inner coordinator is itching to do it, but I know it's awfully big and ambitious. -dithers-
I'm all for roundtables, but it'd depend on whether people participate. It seems to be a "pop in and natter away until one has to go" affair around here, which makes it fun, but not necessarily conducive to roundtable discussions. (School seems to be starting for a lot of us too.) Throw the idea out to the peanut gallery, mod!
Round table sounds interesting! It'd be nice to see everyone's different opinions.
SUmmarizing things for each post would be good, but also something akin to a research paper O_O But it'd be an amazing research paper since there are so many good points thrown in from everyone.
Don't say the R word!raingildedJanuary 7 2010, 21:50:23 UTC
Well, it's helped that Grey made these awesome thread-links and tables and all. Even if I did start this compilation, I'd probably work on it like maybe one hour a day? (And restrict my posting on the LJ comm.) And well, if people want to make it a collaborative effort...-twiddles thumbs-
LOL, YES! "*sigh* I wish the other members would get chances like the more popular ones always seem to get." "How dare you suggest that the other members aren't getting loved!" "Why are people even arguing, we love everyone!!" "OBVIOUSLY EVERYONE IS EQUAL BECAUSE WE THE FANS KEEP SHOUTING POWER OF 9!" "POWER OF NIIIIIIIIIIINE!"
What happens is that the argument itself is lost and the little people feel bullied and the big crowd feel all butt hurt and no one addresses the problems of promotions or that there really is an unequal distribution of not only opportunities but of attention. If fans paid attention to the certain members, more their demand would increase, which is what the fans of those "underrated" members want to bring to the attention of all these fans clamoring for the Big Four to the exclusion of the little guys. *breathes*
I find that that user usually rains on any parade. I've gotten to the point where I see the poster and tell myself not to read the comment posted and I do anyway and get all RAWR! and D:
I love YoonA, but it's true that she can have any opportunity she wants at this point. If SM says, "YoonA is available," shows will grovel for her. Fans of the the "little" members want to develop that same type of demand for their own favorites and to do that you have to give them opportunities to get seen in order to create demand--THAT DAMN CYCLE THAT HYO HAS BEEN SO CUT OUT OF, why?! Seriously, where is the disconnect?!
We are ranting here. <3
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Y'know what, I'm surprised bossa or one of the more mature/in-touch with kpop industry fans haven't stepped in to point out the reality. I'm quite sure bossa or silis (if they aren't the same person) can see what we're saying. Or maybe their status as grandees is such that if you come out on any one side of the debate, it casts your imnpartiality into doubt immediately.
-r.
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It's frustrating to me that the fandom can't even see that bonds or no, these girls are really competing for the same opportunities. The resources are limited, just as camera time is limited, so they have to essentially compete with each other. There's a reason why fans cry "Stop trying to steal opportunities from one member to give to another member!" The language itself bares the truth: the girls are as equally out to establish themselves as individuals as they are to do well as a group. They do have to look to the future. It's just good, common sense.
SNSD bonds are of love, yes, but don't deny the currents of jealousy and ambition and even "greed" (camera greed certainly).
Those BNFs almost never involve themselves in such arguments. If anything, they are even more "Power of 9" stalwarts by not speaking out one way or another, willing to let the arguments rage but content to sit back and provide information (and often settle the waters in doing so, as the new information distracts people from discontent or allows for new things to spazz over). They could have great influence in the International fandom's thinking, but they decide not to, perhaps exactly to protect that impartiality that you've mentioned. Their behavior could be admirable or frustrating, depending on which side of the issue you fall on.
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I'm content with a fractured fandom that acknowledges the bond, thank you. I'd rather we acknowledge the status quo--that the thread is Taeng/Yoona biased, and at the same time, a thread for all SNSD fans, and one in which the bias may change, anytime. (It won't, because their fanbases are too big, but Yuri's crept in nicely, as did Jessica from very early on.)
As profs are wont to say, when someone (history/scholars/a powerful faction in society) wants to hide or deny something, it means that that something is powerful and worth looking at.
I'm also all for protecting impartiality, at least for info-providers, and I don't want to see Soy getting involved too much either. (Don't know her personally at all, but seems like a girl with much sense, so her involvement very unlikely.) It'd be so much cooler if the whole thread could say, "We don't care about antis, we can have this discussion if we want." Most antis would be bored stiff and creep away disappointed if there was a real debate going on, anyway, instead of one fuelled by insecurity.
-r.
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This is probably why opinions and debates begin to feel like personal threats and becomes bigger than they really are and cries for conformity are put out ("Nothing without 9!" "Power of 9!"). The girls themselves present a united front, so the fandom wants to fall in line.
But that doesn't change the status quo, as you've pointed out. Yet in the fandom's mind (the "whole" where "nothing without 9" is the rule of the day, not for the smaller camps that do exist within the bigger fandom), there isn't a bias, which is why pointing out that YoonA gets so much time to do things is taboo--but at the same time, the fandom is able to acknowledge she is the "face" of SNSD. It feels like a case of doublethink, where the fandom is able to hold two contradictory thoughts in their minds at one time and yet have them both hold true.
Soy touts "power of 9" and "love 'em all." She doesn't get much for meta and debate, I'd say.
instead of one fuelled by insecurity.
I hadn't really thought about it like that until you pointed it out, but, yes, it's really just insecurity across the board. Do they really think a member like HyoYeon getting some promotion by doing a job that YoonA could do could threaten a member with YoonA's status? No. Good God, no. So what would it hurt? It wouldn't. But it would hurt YoonA fans because they "lose" something. Again, a fractured fanbase that can't see that it's fractured.
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Anyway, by virtue of her position as founder of SSF, Soy can't say anything beyond that, it'd be too divisive. (Think of it as ministers delivering beeyootiful slogans in speeches to unify the country, and their secretaries/civil servants/the media sweating over the meta.) I don't want her to be divisive, we need someone with clout to tout the power of 9, and I'm glad she came up with it to grow the fanbase in the first place. It might have led to this current ferment in soompi, but at least there're now enough fans for it to be going on. Let's put it this way, at least there're enough people out there in the Intl Fandom for this to matter. It might even ferment well, and we might end up with....kimchi.
Sorry, it was a serious post until then, and I blame Craver for that joke. =(
Bossa seems to have tweeted about wanting it to be a united fandom for all 9 girls, and I hope he stops there, because that's leaning towards Not Thinking Blindly Supporting already. (For a Sooyoung fan, he's awfully optimistic.)
-r.
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Seeing how quickly everyone wants everyone else to shut up in soompi, probably little ferment in the long run. SSF is even more close-mouthed on dissent. Soompi is the more "open" forum, I'd argue. I'd sooner bring my ire to soompi than I would to SSF, so to speak, probably because it's easier to reach readers without having divided forums that . . . house a fractured fandom. LOL
I've been talking about SooYoung a lot in the past two days or so that the mention of her name just makes me wonder about her all over again. A member who does get work but not the type of work/exposure that the others do . . . on one hand, there's a constant level of encouragement for her fans; on the other hand, it's exactly like getting a taste of the feast but watching the bigger hitters (YulTi on MuCore, TaeYeon on ChinChin, perhaps even Sunny on The M) get to devour the roast turkey.
Mmm, food.
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Hrm, titling your a "Convenient Distraction" suddenly seems so apt and so...prophetic. =D
-r.
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I'm really glad to attract people willing to talk. I aim to have conversations here; it broadens both sides if both sides are willing to listen. It's been wonderful to really hold conversations and to be challenged and, in turn, to challenge others' thinking. I'm not like Craver and them who can take their crusades elsewhere; I need a comfortable space to express myself. If others find it safe and comfortable, too, I'm glad. But we are ranting in a little corner of the Internets; I wish I did have the patience and courage to go out there and fight the good fight. I almost did the crazy thing and posted this in soompi, for example, but then I realized that was a Bad Idea.
I mention the other members . . . sometimes. XD I let you guys point out all the awesome things they're doing that I missed, lol.
LOL, this journal has been serving as a distraction for me for many years now, rofl.
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Hey, why not invite that soompi poster you almost PM-ed to come here? (Is he/she a Hyo fan, do you know?). I have to stop myself from pimping out this place because it's yours, the comment threads are quite scary I must say, and the LJ comm is kinda bare at the moment.
Not to give you more work or to sound imposing, but ever considered tidying up some of your more epic posts here for the LJ comm and providing that with a link for the comments thread here? It'll give casual fans/browsers much better access to Hyo posts, and would help pimp her out--I'm sure there're SNSD fans who go round looking at SNSD community journals and you just might troll another one in (KOFFKOFFlikemeKOFFKOFF) much more easily that way as compared to a personal journal. Not to mention quite a few of your Hyo and SNSD posts are detailed and logical enough to be a shining source of pride, and augmented by the riches found by hyoyeonfan/HYJ/CP and whoever else I'm missing out (sorry!)
-r.
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One of the problems is that so much of the awesome of a lot of posts appeared in the comments. All I did was start a conversation in most cases and it really got the ball rolling as people objected, added to it, or thought their ways through the issues. So "cleaning" up a post to present is really, really difficult because the conversations were what was important and it's in being willing to read all of that that you get the value of them. I do try to tag all the "serious business" posts for people to be able to find.
Our Post of Doom actually had some really good running conversations about members and promotion. SooYoung, again, came up a lot, and we talked a lot about vocalists and their voice quality and their futures (esp. Tiffany in this regard). I wish there was a way to present all this but our posts in comments tend to cover several topics all at once, which is also where it gets really messy to try and "clean up."
What might be nice would be to have a roundtable discussion. To sit down a bunch of people and just draw up a whole list of questions and have everyone answer. I haven't tried to do this in the past because I'd've felt like I was throwing questions out into the Internet ether, lol. But it may work if we could get people to sit down. Or even have a real time chat if we could arrange times and just post up the transcripts. I'd love to try something like that.
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When you say "roundtable", do you mean on the LJ comm?
I'd love to try a real-time chat too! Although I suspect what goes on in the comment-madness is a sort of real-time chat with lagging.
-r.
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Yes, I think the comm would be a nice place to do it or even a real-time chat carried out in roundtable fashion so that we could have a posting order when presenting a question and that would allow responses without it being crazily willy-nilly, and we would start each question with a new person starting and go around one-by-one. I've seen some nice roundtable discussions pulled off in J-pop-fen.
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I'm all for roundtables, but it'd depend on whether people participate. It seems to be a "pop in and natter away until one has to go" affair around here, which makes it fun, but not necessarily conducive to roundtable discussions. (School seems to be starting for a lot of us too.) Throw the idea out to the peanut gallery, mod!
-r.
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Round table sounds interesting! It'd be nice to see everyone's different opinions.
SUmmarizing things for each post would be good, but also something akin to a research paper O_O But it'd be an amazing research paper since there are so many good points thrown in from everyone.
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Feeling less zonked out, I hope!
-r.
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