"Home's face: how it ages when you're away."

Sep 10, 2011 13:57

Caveat: No one is going to read this, and no one is going to comment. (This is an expectation, not a command ( Read more... )

ebooks, mars, hurricanes, publishing, kickstarter, insilico, books, the drowning girl, joe r. lansdale, travel, secrets, bad writing, pain, cormac mccarthy, lovecraft, then vs. now, home

Leave a comment

lilith_333 September 10 2011, 19:08:55 UTC
ST. MARK'S BOOKSHOP MIGHT GO UNDER?!?! PLEASE tell me you're kidding! (I did not know about this.)

*Making mental note to go there and spend lots of money next time I get paid to try and keep them in business*

I DO NOT believe that paper books will ever disappear. Maybe this is just denial but I REFUSE to believe it. Despite the proliferation of digital media and experience, I think we as human beings have a basic need for physical reality. Facebook has not replaced actual physical meet-ups and in-person networking. Online teaching has not replaced physical classrooms. Email and texting have not replaced face-to-face and even phone conversations. I think we will see more and more digital versions of things but I don't believe they will ever completely dominate.

The experience of reading a physical book is different than the experience of reading text on a screen. There have been studies suggest that the two each involve different brain processes. Online books can't replace the mental experience of reading a physical book. Moreover, simply downloading and reading something on your Kindle trivializes what, to me, should be a profound experience and I think even casual readers know that on some level.

Besides, as long as I'm alive I probably can keep the publishing industry at least nominally afloat single-handedly; as I'm typing this I'm in my bedroom, literally surrounded by *stacks and piles* of books. It's quite seriously a toss-up as to whether, overall, I spend more of my budget on books or food! (I am not quite kidding with all of this. My partner and I are going to have to move soon, primarily so we have room for all my books.)

(Sorry - I know you said no comments in your caveat on this post but, as an English prof. and an avid reader, I think and talk about this all the time so I can't stop myself from chiming in with my 98 cents. It actually would be a good subject to bring up with my students next week in class.)

Reply

ext_269782 September 10 2011, 19:29:01 UTC
To be precise about it: St Marks can't afford their rent, so it's up to Cooper Union to reduce or say "nuh uh; get out." Of course, St. Marks *might* have the wherewithal to move to another location, but after reading what Ellen Datlow had to say and then reading the petition about it I am pretty freaked out.

I don't think we'll ever see the end of a physical book, but I do believe that at some point in the future, we'll see the end of *paper* books.... at least, paper as we know it.

Reply

greygirlbeast September 10 2011, 20:02:01 UTC
I DO NOT believe that paper books will ever disappear. Maybe this is just denial but I REFUSE to believe it. Despite the proliferation of digital media and experience, I think we as human beings have a basic need for physical reality. Facebook has not replaced actual physical meet-ups and in-person networking. Online teaching has not replaced physical classrooms. Email and texting have not replaced face-to-face and even phone conversations. I think we will see more and more digital versions of things but I don't believe they will ever completely dominate.

I'd say you are, in fact, in denial. Books will continue to exist, as artifacts, and, like I said, as expensive volumes produced by small presses for collector's. Now, this trend may be reversed once oil is gone and plastic becomes too expensive to produce.

Also, email, etc. has, essentially, killed actual letter writing. Of course, the telephone started the end of that lost art form.

Reply

lilith_333 September 10 2011, 21:25:14 UTC
Poot. *unhappy face*

I know, I've heard your argument before and it's a valid one. I'm a bleeding-heart rose-coloured-glasses humanist and to me books are sacred objects. I really WANT to believe that they have a widespread intrinsic value to people besides me.

However, there is a pragmatic argument for books vs. ereaders. Technology breaks. If you bust your Kindle, no more ebooks for you. A physical book, if treated properly, can have a longer lifespan than a human being (I own books that are over 200 years old and mass-market paperbacks from the 1930s and 1940s that are still in readable condition.) To an extent, damage to a book can be repaired; covers can be taped and pages re-glued. Few users can repair their own computers or ereaders.

I require all my students, when doing research, to consult a certain number of non-electronic sources. Why? Because if you rely on the internet or online databases for information, what will you do if your computer breaks or the internet goes down? Yet if you know how to use a library and find a book on your topic, you won't be in trouble. Same logic. Digital information and sources essentially lack the permanence of physical records, like books. If that asteroid you mentioned below ever does hit us (assuming there are any survivors) everyone's Kindles and laptops will be useless. There will be no movies or television. No Wikipedia to tell us how to hook up an electric generator? What's left? Books might even become the new currency of the post-apocalyptic society....*hmmm...story idea forming...*

(PS: You just finished "The Stand" - remember how in Boulder everyone became widely interested in the library for entertainment and practical information both?)

Reply

greygirlbeast September 10 2011, 21:36:52 UTC

I really WANT to believe that they have a widespread intrinsic value to people besides me.

I feel the same way about the Steller's seacow, but look how that turned out.

However, there is a pragmatic argument for books vs. ereaders. Technology breaks. If you bust your Kindle, no more ebooks for you. A physical book, if treated properly, can have a longer lifespan than a human being (I own books that are over 200 years old and mass-market paperbacks from the 1930s and 1940s that are still in readable condition.) To an extent, damage to a book can be repaired; covers can be taped and pages re-glued. Few users can repair their own computers or ereaders.

This is a pragmatic argument. One which no one seems to be listening to. The world is too gadget obsessed. Americans throw away last years iPod for this year's model, and so forth. My books won't break. They aren't planned to become obsolescent. Kindle, etc. are. do and are, but no one seems to give a rat's ass.

emember how in Boulder everyone became widely interested in the library for entertainment and practical information both?

Actually...that's not in the 1978 version. I suspected KIng added that to the crappy 1990 text.

Reply

lilith_333 September 10 2011, 22:00:19 UTC
I just read up on Steller's seacow and now I am sad.

I expect it will hit a point where people will HAVE to listen to the argument about technology failure. There's a good reason why many institutions - my school included - maintain paper records along with electronic databases. The more we digitize our lives, the more vulnerable so much of what makes up our lives become. In my more cynical moments, however, I think it may take an asteroid or EMP-style disaster for people as a whole to fully realize that.

From a Marxist perspective, there's a whole rationale behind the planned obsolescence of technology (that's probably a topic for another day, however). In brief: use mass media to convince people they NEED non-essential big-ticket items like ereaders, smartphones, and iPods. Then build these things so they break within a certain timeframe and/or release new versions that people are again convinced they *must* have. "Keeping up with the Joneses" in this manner will push the lower- and middle-classes into a cycle of constant consumption and debt, ensuring they can't leave their mind-numbing jobs and thus keeping them good brainwashed workers for the small fraction of those in power. Of course, those very mind-numbing jobs also create a desire for escapism and entertainment that can be fulfilled by - you guessed it! - those very same expensive non-essential devices.

One final thought - we're mostly talking from a very American-centred perspective here. There are areas of the world where the majority of people can't afford things like computers and ereaders, so a fair portion of education and information-gathering, as well as entertainment, comes from books, not the internet. Even if most Americans land up eliminating paper books from their life I am not sure that will become a world-wide thing.

I actually haven't read the whole of the 1978 version so the detail about the libraries in "The Stand" is probably a newer addition. I'm currently in the middle of re-reading "Misery," which I personally think is one of King's best books.

Reply

kousmichoff September 11 2011, 06:07:26 UTC
Thank you for your thoughts on this.

Looking through my library, I find books that have been given to me by friends and family. In these, always, is a personal note to me. And these bring back times I've shared with them.

Years ago, I inherited my father's books. Many of them contain his boyhood scribbled ideas and doodles.

I can't imagine how things such as these could ever be replaced by iPads and ebooks.

Reply

lilith_333 September 10 2011, 21:41:09 UTC
Gotcha. That's actually kind of another issue altogether; the crazy real estate prices in Manhattan. I've known a BUNCH of non-bookstore businesses that have had to close or, if they are lucky and have the overhead funds, relocate for that very reason. It's especially bad in SoHo, Tribeca, and the East and West Villages.

I personally trace blame back to Bloomberg's business-friendly city politics. It's getting so that the only places that can afford to stay open in the city are the rich corporations and chain stores. Did you know he is trying to ban independent vendors from places like Union Square? Of course, *in sarcastic voice* big business brings money into the city - AND his pockets - in a way that small independent business doesn't. This annoys me.

I won't rant about NYC politics anymore. It's just that I've lived here for nearing a decade - and was a reasonably frequent visitor for much longer - and I don't like what is happening to the city. Granted, it's nice to walk around alone after dark and not really worry about being mugged, but Times Square has become an amusement park and Union Square is turning into a strip mall. The city is losing its character piece by piece.

PS: Where could I find Ellen Datlow's comments and the petition?

Reply

lilith_333 September 10 2011, 21:45:59 UTC
PPS: The above is a reply to lachendwolf's post about St. Mark's Bookshop.

Reply

ext_269782 September 11 2011, 00:44:46 UTC
The place I first read of it was at http://twitter.com/#!/EllenDatlow/status/112022690436628480

which includes the petition here: http://signon.org/sign/save-the-st-marks-bookshop?source=s.tw&r_by=559617

and of course I cannot seem to replicate my crazed google searchings which got me to some commentary by Ellen... I'll keep looking.

Reply

lilith_333 September 11 2011, 16:44:36 UTC
I signed the petition - thank you!

Reply


Leave a comment

Up