Church
I just read a bunch of comments on a friend's post where they all basically said that "church was boring so I stopped going", and then went on to talk about how they aren't clear on what they believe and other such things. I wrote a comment about it, but it was way longer than 4300 characters, so it wouldn't let me post the comment. I decided to post it here instead. Please note that I'm not beating you over the head with this--I was responding to another post when I wrote it. These are my beliefs and I'd be happy to discuss with anyone.
----
Wow, this thread makes me want to cry. Like, seriously. It really upsets me to hear multiple stories of "church is boring so I quit going".
Where to start...so many thoughts. My own story perhaps...
I grew up in a church that I didn't particularly like, and I found quite boring most of the time. The youth group was a bunch of jerks, half of which did drugs, and the older kids weren't very nice to me. The pastor was getting old and less focused, and the sermons would routinely last 45-50 minutes. By the time I was in middle school, going to church seemed like a necessary evil.
At the same time, my own personal spiritual growth progressed on its own. I began reading my Bible and praying every day (a habit I regret I haven't continued) and really trying to figure out what the Bible says. See--going to church with all of those hypocrites made me really want to see what the Bible says, on my own. I had good teachers here and there, but I didn't trust them to teach me what I needed to know. I spent the next years growing mostly on my own.
Senior year of HS my pastor retired and our new one tended to say things I disagreed with. Nothing major, just little things that he couldn't support with scripture. So I left. Me and Nick went and visited a few other churches until we found one we liked. It's an eye opening experience to see what else is out there. So many bad churches. So very many bad churches. More bad churches than good churches. I'll get back to that though.
So I start college and I go to church with my sister because she has a car. I liked the church okay, but I didn't like feeling like I *had* to go, since my sister would nag me if I missed a week. Once I got a car, I switched to the church I'm at now, and I went ever since. Thing is, I didn't know a soul there for about 2 years. I went most Sundays and didn't talk to a soul. And that's exactly what I needed. I had to grow up. Kids go to church because their friends are there. Adults go to worship God. I had to prove to myself that I was going to church for the right reasons, and not to hang out with a social group. See, that's the only reason the druggies went to youth group, and I bet you none of them are in church now. I could complain about them being hypocrites, but heck, we're all hypocrites in some way or another. If we were perfect we wouldn't need church. Eventually I got involved at my church, and now that I'm actively involved in the choir as well as an ABF class (adult Sunday school), I feel like I am part of the church, not just an attendee. Because in all reality, church is just a gathering of people--it's not a building.
So what's a church for anyway? The one I went to growing up felt the need to tell us about Jesus' sacrifice every week, just in case there were non-Christians in the congregation. Not a lot of growth there, when you hear the same thing week in and week out. So....bad church. Several of the churches I visited gave sermons wholly unrelated to the Bible. More like motivational speeches based on nothing Biblical. Nice, maybe, but that's not a church, it's a seminar. Bad church. Went to one where everyone got out in the aisles and danced and sang, and got really really emotional every week. Lots of crying, lots of singing out for joy, and then a very very basic sermon that basically said "God loves you and has a plan for your life" about 12 ways. Not necessarily a bad church--I would call it a nursery. It's good for new Christians who want to feel excited about it, but don't want to get into the "meat" of what it is to be a Christian. There are Bible verses about believers who still require spiritual milk and can't handle solid food--that church is for them.
So what's a good church to me? One that teaches me the Bible. A pastor that gives sermons that teach me what God is trying to tell me through the Bible. Sermons that are directly linked to the Bible--"God wants us to do this because it says so here and here and here". Basically, the pastor does the research for me and gives me his results and his works cited. I don't have to trust him at all--everything he's saying is right there in the Bible, he just helps me find it and gives me the history lesson that gives me the context of the verses. I can honestly say that most weeks I am disappointed when the sermon is over, even if I'm hungry and my back hurts.
That's half.
The other half is actually the whole reason for church. I mean--I could have lunch with the pastor every week and he could teach me his sermon one-on-one and I'd probably have an even better understanding of it, so why meet en masse? Well, for one thing, the Bible requires it. Not to the degree of "missing one Sunday is a sin", but it does say if you are in a place where there are other believers, you should gather together. Church provides a place to gather, a place to support each other, and a place to worship collectively. The Bible actually tells us to "Sing to the Lord", so we do. The book of Acts talks all about the early church and why church was put together in the first place, and that's the model our church tries to follow. Everything based on the Bible, nothing based on tradition or the unsupported opinions of the pastor(s). This way, I don't have to trust my pastor--I only have to trust the Bible.
The one thing church should *not* be is a place that gives you a list of rules. The reason for this is Christianity isn't a list of rules. People talk all the time about the ten commandments as if they're a book of laws that count more than anything else, but even in the ten commandments God says that there are really only two commandments: Love the Lord your God above all else, and Love your neighbor as yourself. It says clearly in the Bible that any rule you might need to follow is summed up in those two. And even then, following these rules is a symptom of your faith. It doesn't earn you anything--it's basically summed up with the verse "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." We, as humans, fall in a trap of thinking there's something we can do to earn our way into God's favor, and the truth is we can't. The Bible says clearly that our salvation is based on faith, not on works, so that no man can boast.
How many lies does it take to make me a liar? How many things do I have to steal to be a thief? How many times can I take God's name in vain before it's too many? We don't want to believe that it's one, but if it's not one, what is it? What makes a liar a bad enough liar that he should be punished for it? Should there be an arbitrary line? At what point does he stop being a "good person"? The truth is, none of us are good people. Look at 2 year olds. They're horrible to each other. Why? They're born that way. We all default to selfishness. It's human nature. It's why we need God. The only "good person" in the history of existence is Jesus. He's the only person that's never done anything wrong. He's the only person that actually deserved to go to Heaven. He died to pay our penance. There's nothing we can do to pay it. All we can do is repent and have faith.
I know I wasn't called to preach, and as such I apologize for the fact that the above paragraph starts to sound like a sermon. But it scares me to death that some of my friends don't have a solid set of beliefs. I recognize that nobody is going to share my exact beliefs, and think that's to be expected, but to just hope everything works out in the end is to guarantee that it won't.
I encourage everyone who stopped going to church because it was boring, to find a different church and try it out. And if that one's no good, try another and another. I believe there are more bad churches out there than good, so while it saddens me, it doesn't surprise me that most of us went to "bad churches" growing up. But there are good churches out there, and once you find one, you can get involved and "give back". And that's the real purpose for a church.
----
Wow, this thread makes me want to cry. Like, seriously. It really upsets me to hear multiple stories of "church is boring so I quit going".
Where to start...so many thoughts. My own story perhaps...
I grew up in a church that I didn't particularly like, and I found quite boring most of the time. The youth group was a bunch of jerks, half of which did drugs, and the older kids weren't very nice to me. The pastor was getting old and less focused, and the sermons would routinely last 45-50 minutes. By the time I was in middle school, going to church seemed like a necessary evil.
At the same time, my own personal spiritual growth progressed on its own. I began reading my Bible and praying every day (a habit I regret I haven't continued) and really trying to figure out what the Bible says. See--going to church with all of those hypocrites made me really want to see what the Bible says, on my own. I had good teachers here and there, but I didn't trust them to teach me what I needed to know. I spent the next years growing mostly on my own.
Senior year of HS my pastor retired and our new one tended to say things I disagreed with. Nothing major, just little things that he couldn't support with scripture. So I left. Me and Nick went and visited a few other churches until we found one we liked. It's an eye opening experience to see what else is out there. So many bad churches. So very many bad churches. More bad churches than good churches. I'll get back to that though.
So I start college and I go to church with my sister because she has a car. I liked the church okay, but I didn't like feeling like I *had* to go, since my sister would nag me if I missed a week. Once I got a car, I switched to the church I'm at now, and I went ever since. Thing is, I didn't know a soul there for about 2 years. I went most Sundays and didn't talk to a soul. And that's exactly what I needed. I had to grow up. Kids go to church because their friends are there. Adults go to worship God. I had to prove to myself that I was going to church for the right reasons, and not to hang out with a social group. See, that's the only reason the druggies went to youth group, and I bet you none of them are in church now. I could complain about them being hypocrites, but heck, we're all hypocrites in some way or another. If we were perfect we wouldn't need church. Eventually I got involved at my church, and now that I'm actively involved in the choir as well as an ABF class (adult Sunday school), I feel like I am part of the church, not just an attendee. Because in all reality, church is just a gathering of people--it's not a building.
So what's a church for anyway? The one I went to growing up felt the need to tell us about Jesus' sacrifice every week, just in case there were non-Christians in the congregation. Not a lot of growth there, when you hear the same thing week in and week out. So....bad church. Several of the churches I visited gave sermons wholly unrelated to the Bible. More like motivational speeches based on nothing Biblical. Nice, maybe, but that's not a church, it's a seminar. Bad church. Went to one where everyone got out in the aisles and danced and sang, and got really really emotional every week. Lots of crying, lots of singing out for joy, and then a very very basic sermon that basically said "God loves you and has a plan for your life" about 12 ways. Not necessarily a bad church--I would call it a nursery. It's good for new Christians who want to feel excited about it, but don't want to get into the "meat" of what it is to be a Christian. There are Bible verses about believers who still require spiritual milk and can't handle solid food--that church is for them.
So what's a good church to me? One that teaches me the Bible. A pastor that gives sermons that teach me what God is trying to tell me through the Bible. Sermons that are directly linked to the Bible--"God wants us to do this because it says so here and here and here". Basically, the pastor does the research for me and gives me his results and his works cited. I don't have to trust him at all--everything he's saying is right there in the Bible, he just helps me find it and gives me the history lesson that gives me the context of the verses. I can honestly say that most weeks I am disappointed when the sermon is over, even if I'm hungry and my back hurts.
That's half.
The other half is actually the whole reason for church. I mean--I could have lunch with the pastor every week and he could teach me his sermon one-on-one and I'd probably have an even better understanding of it, so why meet en masse? Well, for one thing, the Bible requires it. Not to the degree of "missing one Sunday is a sin", but it does say if you are in a place where there are other believers, you should gather together. Church provides a place to gather, a place to support each other, and a place to worship collectively. The Bible actually tells us to "Sing to the Lord", so we do. The book of Acts talks all about the early church and why church was put together in the first place, and that's the model our church tries to follow. Everything based on the Bible, nothing based on tradition or the unsupported opinions of the pastor(s). This way, I don't have to trust my pastor--I only have to trust the Bible.
The one thing church should *not* be is a place that gives you a list of rules. The reason for this is Christianity isn't a list of rules. People talk all the time about the ten commandments as if they're a book of laws that count more than anything else, but even in the ten commandments God says that there are really only two commandments: Love the Lord your God above all else, and Love your neighbor as yourself. It says clearly in the Bible that any rule you might need to follow is summed up in those two. And even then, following these rules is a symptom of your faith. It doesn't earn you anything--it's basically summed up with the verse "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." We, as humans, fall in a trap of thinking there's something we can do to earn our way into God's favor, and the truth is we can't. The Bible says clearly that our salvation is based on faith, not on works, so that no man can boast.
How many lies does it take to make me a liar? How many things do I have to steal to be a thief? How many times can I take God's name in vain before it's too many? We don't want to believe that it's one, but if it's not one, what is it? What makes a liar a bad enough liar that he should be punished for it? Should there be an arbitrary line? At what point does he stop being a "good person"? The truth is, none of us are good people. Look at 2 year olds. They're horrible to each other. Why? They're born that way. We all default to selfishness. It's human nature. It's why we need God. The only "good person" in the history of existence is Jesus. He's the only person that's never done anything wrong. He's the only person that actually deserved to go to Heaven. He died to pay our penance. There's nothing we can do to pay it. All we can do is repent and have faith.
I know I wasn't called to preach, and as such I apologize for the fact that the above paragraph starts to sound like a sermon. But it scares me to death that some of my friends don't have a solid set of beliefs. I recognize that nobody is going to share my exact beliefs, and think that's to be expected, but to just hope everything works out in the end is to guarantee that it won't.
I encourage everyone who stopped going to church because it was boring, to find a different church and try it out. And if that one's no good, try another and another. I believe there are more bad churches out there than good, so while it saddens me, it doesn't surprise me that most of us went to "bad churches" growing up. But there are good churches out there, and once you find one, you can get involved and "give back". And that's the real purpose for a church.