Sorry it's taken me a while to reply. I've been getting some grief out of my system, but I feel much better for it.
The Religious Establishment tends to be made up of people who 'have it made'. The real progressives in this field were people who were outside and on the fringes. the Minor Prophets, Jesus and His apostles , these were all 'persona non grata ' as far as the Establishment were concerned. Oh, yes. I understand that the established church wouldn't have welcomed many changes. That's what I don't like about organized religion. It seems to be almost the reverse of progression, as it's so easy to silence new voices and ways of viewing things, when you have such power - progression can be such a slow process.
The thing I will never be able to forgive the church for is jutstifying the oppression of women.
I see a lot of similarities in science and religion. Both have established power structures, both have well respected places for meeting and discussion, and in both it is or has been difficult to challenge and build on existing theories. Same goes for medicine. The power that pharmecutical companies hold is pretty terrifying. (And....A lot of immoral shit goes down behind closed doors.) I kind of see science as a religion, too. I don't know if Athiests see it that way, though.
.....This wasn't much of a debate, really, just a collection of thoughts. I don't know the bible very well but I recognise how wise it is in parts, and know that if it wasn't for the charitable nature of Christians the UK would be an even bleaker place. TL;DR: I mostly agree with you :p
If you're interested: myself, I have a very complex relationship with my beliefs. I guess I'd be regarded as an Athiest by most, but a lot of my...How can I put it...Morals, are based (somewhat loosely) on Buddhist teachings. They share some similarities with Christian ones also I think. I try to treat people, myself and animals with respect, I try not to harm others, I try to listen and learn about as much as I can while I'm here, I vow to work hard to succeed in the things I want to do before I die, I will speak up if others are being dicks around me, I will learn from my mistakes, as mistakes remind us we're human and stop our egos from becoming destructive, I'm not to be afraid of connecting with others, and I don't eat meat, and I eat dairy products sparingly.
There are probably some more. The most important one is to not be a dick. The points above work together to stop me from being one. Maybe I could call my religion the anti-dick movement.
Though I don't believe in God, I have a respect for what I like to call 'the life force' which keeps everything ticking over.
I don't believe there's really 'good' or 'evil', just the actions of humananity in all of its destructive or creative deeds. Destruction causes sorrow, creativity causes happiness. I believe that most people are destructive until they realise this and put measures in place to stop. This includes adults AND children. (This could be seen as controversial, but let me explain: I remember very well being a child and knowing 'right' from 'wrong', or 'creative' from 'destrustive' if you will. People who say things like 'Oh but he/she is just a child!' when the child is acting like a dick, are just enabling the dickish behaviour. The child thinks that being destructive/negative/a dick is okay, and never learns the difference between creativity and destruction. It's not neccesarily the child's fault; the point 'I will speak up if others are being dicks around me' should cover that and as a result, everyone will be happy.)
Personal responsibility. There's a lot of that.
To be honest, in my more depressed or low moods I wish I could believe wholeheartedly in a faith as it would make it easier than trying to muddle on through with very little (traditional) spirituality, though I mostly enjoy being able to reinvent my own belief system as I grow.
Obviously all this is open to questioning and revision as I get older. And I don't mind if you want to pick it apart.
The Religious Establishment tends to be made up of people who 'have it made'.
The real progressives in this field were people who were outside and on the fringes. the Minor Prophets, Jesus and His apostles , these were all 'persona non grata ' as far as the Establishment were concerned.
Oh, yes. I understand that the established church wouldn't have welcomed many changes. That's what I don't like about organized religion. It seems to be almost the reverse of progression, as it's so easy to silence new voices and ways of viewing things, when you have such power - progression can be such a slow process.
The thing I will never be able to forgive the church for is jutstifying the oppression of women.
I see a lot of similarities in science and religion. Both have established power structures, both have well respected places for meeting and discussion, and in both it is or has been difficult to challenge and build on existing theories.
Same goes for medicine. The power that pharmecutical companies hold is pretty terrifying. (And....A lot of immoral shit goes down behind closed doors.)
I kind of see science as a religion, too. I don't know if Athiests see it that way, though.
.....This wasn't much of a debate, really, just a collection of thoughts. I don't know the bible very well but I recognise how wise it is in parts, and know that if it wasn't for the charitable nature of Christians the UK would be an even bleaker place.
TL;DR: I mostly agree with you :p
If you're interested: myself, I have a very complex relationship with my beliefs. I guess I'd be regarded as an Athiest by most, but a lot of my...How can I put it...Morals, are based (somewhat loosely) on Buddhist teachings. They share some similarities with Christian ones also I think.
I try to treat people, myself and animals with respect,
I try not to harm others,
I try to listen and learn about as much as I can while I'm here,
I vow to work hard to succeed in the things I want to do before I die,
I will speak up if others are being dicks around me,
I will learn from my mistakes, as mistakes remind us we're human and stop our egos from becoming destructive,
I'm not to be afraid of connecting with others, and
I don't eat meat, and I eat dairy products sparingly.
There are probably some more. The most important one is to not be a dick. The points above work together to stop me from being one. Maybe I could call my religion the anti-dick movement.
Though I don't believe in God, I have a respect for what I like to call 'the life force' which keeps everything ticking over.
I don't believe there's really 'good' or 'evil', just the actions of humananity in all of its destructive or creative deeds. Destruction causes sorrow, creativity causes happiness.
I believe that most people are destructive until they realise this and put measures in place to stop. This includes adults AND children. (This could be seen as controversial, but let me explain: I remember very well being a child and knowing 'right' from 'wrong', or 'creative' from 'destrustive' if you will. People who say things like 'Oh but he/she is just a child!' when the child is acting like a dick, are just enabling the dickish behaviour. The child thinks that being destructive/negative/a dick is okay, and never learns the difference between creativity and destruction. It's not neccesarily the child's fault; the point 'I will speak up if others are being dicks around me' should cover that and as a result, everyone will be happy.)
Personal responsibility. There's a lot of that.
To be honest, in my more depressed or low moods I wish I could believe wholeheartedly in a faith as it would make it easier than trying to muddle on through with very little (traditional) spirituality, though I mostly enjoy being able to reinvent my own belief system as I grow.
Obviously all this is open to questioning and revision as I get older. And I don't mind if you want to pick it apart.
Ready...Steady...Go!!
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