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To all my friends out there, I could never be more thankful you exist, and with my time I’ve been thinking and I finally found something out about myself, if you want to bother, here’s a little background about myself
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I do stand up for Graham. Because he has trouble standing up for himself sometimes. He is my friend. I've know him for a *very* long time. So I do believe him the majority of the time. But this doesn't mean that I blindly follow all of his decisions or agree with what he does. As much as I love him, he should have stopped calling sooner, and he should have tried to respect her need for distance, as hard as that would have been for him.
Part of being a friend is not only standing up for the people you care about, but helping them see the flaws in their logic, and helping them become better people for it. I wouldn't expect anything less from my friends.
So I would appreicate it very much if you would take all this crap about me backing him up unquestionably and shove it up your ass. But because your post ealier was quite frankly an attack on his person, and his actions, I am at his defense.
But if anything, I can understand more where Whitney is coming from than Graham is. I have been the one to break hearts before. I understand that in all likely hood, she was agonizing over the decision, and then it finally occured to her that she didn't have to deal with him anymore - so she ended it. But while this ended her feeling for him, she has to realize that he didn't have all the time she had deciding what to do about their relationship. This is all fresh and new to him - not something he had been thinking about for weeks at least. How can she logically expect him just to give up all at once?
And. Did you ever think that he was questioning their relationship before Graham stepped into the picture? I remember the first night that Graham talked with Chris. She had Chris get on the phone and tell Graham that he was going to kick his ass. Well, Graham called Chris back, and Chris gets mad, asking him something to the effect of, "well if you broke up with her, why do you keep calling and bothering her?" THIS is the point where they start talking, because you and I both know that Graham sure as hell didn't break up with her. Well, if she wasn't lying to Chris before, where would he have gotten the idea that Graham ended it with her? And why would he think they Graham had broken up with her about a month before they started dating? This speaks of lies, but not ones from Graham. He was just a shocked as Chris when they discovered this.
And about Graham 'telling' Whitney that Chris was going to 'break up with her'. Funny, he is was in my apartment during the vast majority of those phone calls. And I distintly remember him saying something to the effect of 'he'll see you tommorw and have a decision on whether to break up with you, or to stay with you'. This implys a conversation, not a definate break-up. Though I can see how she could have misconstrued 'He'll break up with you tommorw' out of this, this quite simply isn't the case.
I however can not give a perspective on him telling Chris that 'Whitney will dump you if....' Because I've never heard about anything like that. I know that Graham gave him advice, and by advice, I mean things like, 'Whitney likes this I've noticed' or "Whitney has the tendancy to be jealous of female friends, so be careful' But this advice was only given when asked for. So logically, if Graham had told him something to that effect, it's likely that by now it's been taken grossly out of context.
And the reason I became annoyed in the first place is because his post wasn't ANYTHING to do with Whitney, but yet you post and make it about her. Not because you were being harsh to him.
And I do not feel that you are responsible for his or her unhappiness. Just as I am not responsible for either. But, this LJ post was most definatly NOT your place to remind him of Whitney.
And for the record. Unlike what you are doing, I am not sending Whitney dirty comments, as much as a feel she deserves it.
So perhaps you should really examine what you are doing, and how you are reacting before you make accuastions against others?
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God damn, its bullshit like that, that really pisses me off. The conversation where we did break up..on the 16th...I started the whole thing saying that I know we have been fighting alot and I would like to try to fix things so we don't split. Then her lying ass somehow works in a "lets take a break" bullshit b/c she didn't have the guts to just say she didn't think of me like that anymore....
Hell I would have been hurt sure but I wouldn't have called so much or been so crazy if it was just a break-up but she HAD to make it seem temporary in my head and make me think I still had a chance, which I didn't and don't.
And to be honest, sure I was fuel to Chris's fire of breaking up with her, but most of the stuff that made him get annoyed/pissed off etc he ASKED me about...the only time I ever really fronted information that made him like so was that first night I spoke to him saying that I wasn't doing so well for the 2 weeks I had been dumped by Whitney; him being told it was a month and I dumped her was where it started and the only information I gave him without being asked, and hell it wasn't even on purpose.
And so you know...he got guilt-tripped and seduced into get back together part for that one day....He called me that afternoon and was kinda freaking out b/c what happened...He didn't mean to do that, but Whitney is well...Whitney and she will do whatever she feels necessary to get her way or win an arguement, within reason, most of the time.
Hell, she moved on from someone she "loved" without question or restraint really fast, thus proving Chris and I's beliefs and comments. Hell, she said if they'd broke up, it'd suck but at least she knew where she stood....well it happened and wow she already has a relationship...makes you wonder doesnt it?
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I can assure you with absolute certainty that he did not tell her "He is going to dump you". I can see how she may have gotten something to that effect out of what he did tell her, as reference ealier, but that...is definatly twisting the truth or proves that she has to be really terrible with listening skills.
I can understand completly how you would see the whole situation as Grahams fault - ie, he is trying to break them up, he is spreading lies, he is obsessed ect ect.
It is possible also that Chris may have misunderstood what she was trying to tell him. Hell, boys do that sometimes. It's the penis, it makes them stupid.
Though, I feel strongly as though Chris was having doubts on his mind before he started talking to Graham, not just about the 'love' thing. I know one of the things he specifially asked Graham about was her jealous tendancies toward some of his long-term female friends, also her dependancy on him paired with her unwillingness to let him leave sometimes (usually preformed by 'playing' sick or somesuch) If he had asked Graham about this, without any prompt from him, it's logical to assume he was thinking about it before, perhaps he just didn't mention it to her in a timely enough manner to lay to rest the assumption that Graham was fueling this.
My advice for you is to step back and to look at all sides and possibilties before you jump to a conclusion. I've had friends who turned out to be bitchs, when it came right down too it. But because I saw them as a source of friendship at the time, I was blind to their faults. I've learned that people will use you as a 'yes-friend', someone who always agrees with them without fail. It's a little cynical I know, but it's good to take what people tell you with a 'grain of salt' if you will, even those close to you.
:3 Fun stuffs. I really enjoyed typing out all those arguments. I still like the sound of 'choke on a cock'....just want to say something like 'zing!' after that.
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I understand what you mean. Though most guys have their odd little quirks, and are actually thinking and feeling being, as much as they really do deny it. My expericance with Whitney tells me that she is *VERY* high matainence - most guys I've met and actually talked to usually prefer a girl who is a bit more able to stand on her own two feet. But all guys differ. Idolizing her as something that all guys want though, I think that can be bad for not only her ego, and the way she treats others because of that, but also bad other's preceptions of what guys actually want. Though I can't say I know the situation fully, my first impression of that kind of situation is a fairly bad one.
:D I love debates! But I hate philosophy, they just make stuff up :P
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