Comments | grangersnape100: Losing Your Place

harmony_bites November 10 2007, 09:02:20 UTC

Thanks! This is how I like my tragic, no-evading DH SSHG.

Short.

However, I love long, fluffy romantic SSHG...

Like more of "Enchanted"...

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kribu November 10 2007, 09:20:15 UTC

Hehe - I think I prefer the tragic, strictly-canon SS/HG short too... otherwise it would get too angsty for me (and besides, when one is being strictly canon, there would probably not be all that much SS/HG to write about, anyway...)

And was that a subtle hint? ;-)

I do like fluff. Even if it's not really in character for either of them - I'm such a soppy romantic at heart.

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harmony_bites November 10 2007, 09:23:48 UTC

And was that a subtle hint? ;-)

Subtle? Well... it was a hint...

I do like fluff. Even if it's not really in character for either of them - I'm such a soppy romantic at heart.

Well, it's uncanonical if you insist like Rowling on his dying--and not really in character for her if she marries that prat Ron.

However... if they just find the right person *cough*

Yeah, I'm soppy that way too...

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kribu November 10 2007, 09:29:27 UTC

However... if they just find the right person *cough*

Good point... after all, we do know Snape could love deeply - now if he just picked a better (and more worthy ;-)) target for his feelings, I think a lot of fluff could be quite in character. :-D

I'm still trying to figure out why Rowling, who has in the past indicated that Hermione was supposed to represent her in a lot of ways, decided to punish her with Ron - if she herself has said that Ron (or the "Ron type" anyway) would not be a lot of fun to date.

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harmony_bites November 10 2007, 09:37:20 UTC

Good point... after all, we do know Snape could love deeply - now if he just picked a better (and more worthy ;-)) target for his feelings, I think a lot of fluff could be quite in character. :-D

Poor sod--the devotion, the love--it's obviously there to be tapped--and think what it would be like if for once it were returned.

( ... )

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kribu November 10 2007, 09:51:31 UTC

good husband materialA bit dull and slow? And very fond of his family? ;-) (Even if this is mostly apparent in the way he is looking for a mother figure, basically someone to adore him and to cook for him and to clean for him and to pack the right clothes, dammit, not the old jeans which don't fit too well any more ( ... )

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harmony_bites November 10 2007, 10:02:46 UTC

I've never seen Ron as potentially abusive, just not very reliable.I once read an essay--on Mugglenet--which listed these behaviors typical of domestic abusers from an article then matched up Ron's canon behavior--and did so uncomfortably well (albeit, the essay was by a H/Hr shipper ( ... )

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kribu November 10 2007, 10:29:59 UTC

Ah yes, I see what you mean. The problem is, I guess, that I did not read any of those things as pointing to a potential abuser, more - well - behaving like a "typical" teenage boy.

In other words, I've viewed Ron as selfish, careless and thoughtless, causing harm by not actually meaning to, but not so much a bully on purpose (unlike James Potter and Sirius Black). But most definitely not someone I would want to consider husband material - especially, as seen in the epilogue, he's not really grown out of that sort of behaviour or attitude and not matured (as I dearly hoped he would, for Hermione's sake ( ... )

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harmony_bites November 10 2007, 10:37:06 UTC

On the other hand, I would say this also means that Snape (an adult Snape anyway) would likely not hurt/harm someone when he doesn't mean to do that, while Ron quite likely would.

Snape is very different with Lily (and even Narcissa) then he is with the Gryffindor students. Kind, nice even--other than that "Mudblood" which he so regretted he kept vigil outside Lily's rooms to apologize. I can't imagine Ron doing that. So you might be right--it's just that Ron is thoughtless, but in the end that could mean he causes all the more hurt and would never grow out of it.

I've never much agreed with the teen excuse though--I can't imagine Harry or Neville acting the way Ron did--and as you say--the epilogue shows that even as a thirty-something...

But hey--all grist for our mill.

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kribu November 10 2007, 10:58:28 UTC

I've never much agreed with the teen excuse though

I'm generally not in favour for that excuse either, but theoretically, I'm willing to believe that some people do grow out of it. Not that they necessarily become nicer people, but that they at least learn to understand what their behaviour means, and modify it accordingly. Besides, we're supposed to believe that James Potter for instance grew out of it ( ... )

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harmony_bites November 10 2007, 21:46:56 UTC

Besides, we're supposed to believe that James Potter for instance grew out of it.

Why do I find that so hard to believe? Or forgive?

But yes, you're right, a lot of the problem is how Ron acts in the epilogue (especially in contrast to Harry) He still acts like an idiot.

FWIW, this is the article that makes the case for Ron as a potential abuser--with one of the key elements being Ron seeing Hermione as a possession:

http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/madampuddifoot/edit-king01.shtml

Of course, I don't believe Rowling believes or intends this, nor do I completely buy the article. But I think you do put your finger on something with Ron--that mostly, the way his love is expressed and shown is through jealousy and by taking it out on Hermione. In comparison, Snape clearly loved Lily, was clearly jealous of James--but he never takes it out on herWhich is not to say Snape doesn't have a wealth of issues--ones that perhaps those who ( ... )

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kribu November 10 2007, 22:30:06 UTC

Thanks for that link. It certainly had a lot of food for thought ( ... )

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harmony_bites November 10 2007, 23:02:40 UTC

Thanks for that link. It certainly had a lot of food for thought

It does--though King, a H/Hr shipper, doesn't always play fair--she cites this incident for instance as an example of Ron being violent:

HBP pg. 285: Ron punches Demelza Robins in the mouth!

For once she doesn't quote--just summarizes, and when I went looking found she hadn't played fair--Ron hits completely Demelza by accident in Quidditch Practice.

But yes, HBP, more than anything is what makes me sputter at the thought of R/Hr. I'm writing a WIP now that shadows HBP, so I have to reread parts constantly. Ron's treatment of Hermione is just particularly unfair and cruel there.

And I do agree about Snape - not the nicest of men, and I do have certain problems with his teaching methods (although I think most of those - being rather anti-Gryffindors in particular, prejudice against Harry - can be explained, if not excused, by his former treatment at the hands of Gryffindors), but there was never really any indication that he would ever get physically abusive with ( ... )

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kribu November 11 2007, 08:57:07 UTC

I wondered about the bit about Demelza, as I didn't remember Ron hitting her on purpose. Most of the other quotes were quite accurate though, I think - and scary, when collected together like that.

I still don't think Ron would get physically abusive towards Hermione - if not for any other reason then because he'd know Hermione's skills with her wand - but there are plenty of other ways for him to keep hurting her in a long-term relationship.

I also agree about Snape - I do think he might have been somewhat less cruel towards other Gryffindor classes than towards Harry and his closest friends (or Neville, who he probably considered a real danger in the classroom and tried in his own way to get him to see sense, just that it wasn't quite the right way - but then, I don't think Snape ever got any training on how to be a teacher and how to handle children with problems; he certainly would not have had positive experiences from his own youth to draw upon).

I think Snape's detentions, for instance, say a lot of positive things about ( ... )

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harmony_bites November 11 2007, 12:06:25 UTC

In terms of Snape there was an article defending him as a teacher on the net and why they actually thought he acted as an excellent teacher--unfortunately no longer available--but one point it made I remember was that Umbridge herself said that Snape's class was "advanced" for its level and that Snape expected his class to get "high passes" (ie Es) on their OWL. More than that, Snape expected to fill his Advanced Potions classes only with Oustandings--I think that alone is a tribute to his teaching.

Nor is Snape as unfair as Harry--or many readers claim or even SSHG shippers write him--I was struck on reread that despite Harry's resentment his points taken off by Snape in Philosopher's Stone were often for good reasons--they were low numbers too--sometimes consisting of just one point. Gryffindor lost lost lots of points due to McGonagall actually in that book--not Snape. And not once, in any book, despite Harry complaining about not getting points--does Snape give points to anyone--not even Slytherin, not even Draco. And no one ( ... )

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