Losing Your Place

[harmony_bites]

Title: Losing Your Place
Challenge: Bookmark challenge
Team: The Order
Words: 100
Rating: PG
Characters: Hermione, Severus, Ron

We buried Snape yesterday-seven witnesses, but no real mourners, though it’s creepy how much Harry is now making of the git

Comments

[harmony_bites]

Besides, we're supposed to believe that James Potter for instance grew out of it.

Why do I find that so hard to believe? Or forgive?

But yes, you're right, a lot of the problem is how Ron acts in the epilogue (especially in contrast to Harry) He still acts like an idiot.

FWIW, this is the article that makes the case for Ron as a potential abuser--with one of the key elements being Ron seeing Hermione as a possession:

http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/madampuddifoot/edit-king01.shtml

Of course, I don't believe Rowling believes or intends this, nor do I completely buy the article. But I think you do put your finger on something with Ron--that mostly, the way his love is expressed and shown is through jealousy and by taking it out on Hermione. In comparison, Snape clearly loved Lily, was clearly jealous of James--but he never takes it out on her.

Which is not to say Snape doesn't have a wealth of issues--ones that perhaps those who love the character a little less than we do might do better at picking out (though for some strange reason every time I hear a counterargument against SSHG it seems to come down to Snape being old and ugly--and I think Hermione is less superficial than that).

As for why Hermione liked Ron? Well, who else liked her? Viktor was far away. And she's not Ginny. I never got the feeling from the books she was popular and were it not for the troll incident she might not have gotten any friends at all. It's another thing in which I think she's like Snape (and yet another reason why I think we must save them by putting them together--yes, I do). It's nice to be loved--rather than just used for your brain.

[kribu]

Thanks for that link. It certainly had a lot of food for thought.

It is rather interesting how HBP in particular seemed to be a turning point for Ron in many ways - there were signs in the earlier books, but it was in HBP that I really found him quite unpleasant. Not the funny, somewhat awkward sidekick with some issues (mostly the constant need/demand for attention and being jealous of both Harry and Hermione), but someone quite a bit more - unkind, as Luna said. And the aggressive jealousy / possessiveness really bothered me - it felt a lot like "this is my toy, I might not really care for it but I'll be damned if I let anyone else play with it".

And I do agree about Snape - not the nicest of men, and I do have certain problems with his teaching methods (although I think most of those - being rather anti-Gryffindors in particular, prejudice against Harry - can be explained, if not excused, by his former treatment at the hands of Gryffindors), but there was never really any indication that he would ever get physically abusive with anyone.

Obviously, we don't know what he did during his brief time as a "real" Death Eater, but after that, I think we can be fairly sure he wouldn't be the type to physically abuse anyone. Verbal abuse is another matter - but he never showed any signs of practising that with anyone he actually may have cared for or respected, such as a friend or a colleague.

And I sort of agree about James Potter - I don't think he grew out of it entirely (certainly not while still at school, even if he started covering it up from Lily that he was still bullying Severus), but from the little we know, I think he might have matured a bit after settling down with a family. At the very least, he seemed like a decent husband and father - which is something I'm not too confident about with Ron (never mind that Lily seemed rather more suited to James than Hermione to Ron anyway).

[harmony_bites]

Thanks for that link. It certainly had a lot of food for thought

It does--though King, a H/Hr shipper, doesn't always play fair--she cites this incident for instance as an example of Ron being violent:

HBP pg. 285: Ron punches Demelza Robins in the mouth!

For once she doesn't quote--just summarizes, and when I went looking found she hadn't played fair--Ron hits completely Demelza by accident in Quidditch Practice.

But yes, HBP, more than anything is what makes me sputter at the thought of R/Hr. I'm writing a WIP now that shadows HBP, so I have to reread parts constantly. Ron's treatment of Hermione is just particularly unfair and cruel there.

And I do agree about Snape - not the nicest of men, and I do have certain problems with his teaching methods (although I think most of those - being rather anti-Gryffindors in particular, prejudice against Harry - can be explained, if not excused, by his former treatment at the hands of Gryffindors), but there was never really any indication that he would ever get physically abusive with anyone.

I think we can play with several things when it comes to Snape. I've read several articles--and fanfic--that does a nice job of defending Snape as a teacher almost point for point, duj especially. Then there's the point you make above--Dyce particularly emphasizes that in Survivors--that Harry would bring back all of Snape's worse memories and traumas--particularly since everyone keeps emphasizing how Harry looks *exactly* like James. IOW, Harry brings out the absolute worse in him. Even other Gryffindor classes might have a different experience of him as a teacher. And there is also the fact that he did have a role he had to play as an ersatz DE. A combo of the three, plus his capacity for change, for fanfic purposes at least, can help us in creating a Snape that would fit with Hermione.

Given the epilogue, I'd find that an easier task than convincing R/Hr.

[kribu]

I wondered about the bit about Demelza, as I didn't remember Ron hitting her on purpose. Most of the other quotes were quite accurate though, I think - and scary, when collected together like that.

I still don't think Ron would get physically abusive towards Hermione - if not for any other reason then because he'd know Hermione's skills with her wand - but there are plenty of other ways for him to keep hurting her in a long-term relationship.

I also agree about Snape - I do think he might have been somewhat less cruel towards other Gryffindor classes than towards Harry and his closest friends (or Neville, who he probably considered a real danger in the classroom and tried in his own way to get him to see sense, just that it wasn't quite the right way - but then, I don't think Snape ever got any training on how to be a teacher and how to handle children with problems; he certainly would not have had positive experiences from his own youth to draw upon).

I think Snape's detentions, for instance, say a lot of positive things about him (and not even just when compared to Umbridge!) - I can't really remember him assigning detentions without any reason at all, and when he did, they were never really too bad IMHO (although I can see why the kids would disagree).

[harmony_bites]

In terms of Snape there was an article defending him as a teacher on the net and why they actually thought he acted as an excellent teacher--unfortunately no longer available--but one point it made I remember was that Umbridge herself said that Snape's class was "advanced" for its level and that Snape expected his class to get "high passes" (ie Es) on their OWL. More than that, Snape expected to fill his Advanced Potions classes only with Oustandings--I think that alone is a tribute to his teaching.

Nor is Snape as unfair as Harry--or many readers claim or even SSHG shippers write him--I was struck on reread that despite Harry's resentment his points taken off by Snape in Philosopher's Stone were often for good reasons--they were low numbers too--sometimes consisting of just one point. Gryffindor lost lost lots of points due to McGonagall actually in that book--not Snape. And not once, in any book, despite Harry complaining about not getting points--does Snape give points to anyone--not even Slytherin, not even Draco. And no one ever complains about their final grades being unfair--Harry is so sure he passed because Dumbledore must have *made* Snape grade fairly--but we don't know that.

As for Ron as an abuser, physically--I admit I find it hard to believe--someone using that in a fic would have a hard time with me. Partly because I don't believe Hermione would put up with it. That's part of why if you write SSHG at all in a romantic sense, I'm not going to buy an abusive, predatory Snape, let alone an abusive Ron.

Otoh, some really smart, otherwise confident women sometimes get into abusive situations.

But despite it being a little scary how well King made Ron fit the profile, I still find it hard to see Ron as a potential batterer. I don't think it's that Ron wouldn't hit Hermione because she's a witch. Did that ever stop him with Draco? I don't know that I can say why--but I just can't see Ron that way. He'd hurt Hermione, I think--hurt her badly. He's done so before and I think he'd continue to. I could easily see him as unfaithful, for instance. But not physically abusive--and he'd never mean to hurt her.