"that" vs. "which"
Okay, so I know there are certain accepted rules about when to use the word 'that' versus the word 'which'--rules with which I mostly disagree. I would like some feedback on some of the rules which I believe should be followed, versus the (outdated, imho) rules which are/tend to be followed.
If I remember from my university English 101 course correctly, then the 'that vs. which' rule states, basically: "Use the word 'which' if the clause follows a comma, and use the word 'that' if the clause does not follow a comma."
I, however, believe that the word 'that' is overused. 'That' has come to precede most, if not all clauses not following commas, instead of much more appropriate and relevant words preceding the clauses.
Specifically, instead of using the word "that" to precede clauses which could be considered answers to the questions "Who?", "When?", "Where?", "Why?", "What?", and "How?", the specific words used to precede the clauses should be, respectively, "who(m)", "when", "where", "why", "which", and "how" or "by/in/through/etc which".
Examples:
The people who [or, 'with whom we'] went to the movie...
The time when [also, 'at which'] we saw the movie...
The place where [also, 'in which'] we saw the movie...
The reason why [also, 'for which'] we were late to the movie...
The movie which we saw..
and
The way how [also, 'by which'] we traveled to the theatre...
There is more to the complex process which I use to determine which word to use besides the above heuristic, but it is difficult to describe, because I don't fully understand it myself; it usually just comes naturally to me as to which one to use. However, in general, the above heuristic is usually helpful in situations where it is easy to determine whether to use "that" versus "which".
Now, I am inquiring as to your opinions on this partly because I continue to get marked off points on papers I turn in for my (university) courses, for which, in instances such as these, my usage of "which" instead of "that" strikes the graders as incorrect. I want to know if I have any valid basis for arguing with my professors to get those points back...
However, I am inquiring mostly because my usage of "that" vs. "which" differs from the norm very distinctly, and I am curious as to whether my usage is simply archaic and outdated, or if it is still common. For example, I've seen my usage in some Isaac Asimov novels circa 1940s-1980s, as well as in articles from peer-reviewed psychology journals and monographs circa the same time period...but I haven't encountered my usage in any publications from more recent times. It may be that, because I've read so much of the above material, and have been reading it for such a long time (I've been reading it since January 2006), I simply picked up the usage from the literature and forgot that I did so--but this is not necessarily the case.
My questions for you are: 1) Have you ever encountered usage of 'that' vs. 'which' in the same/similar way as/to which I use them; and 2) How do you, personally, determine whether to use one or the other of the two words; and 3) If you see no problem with the way I use the word 'which' in place of 'that', then (how) do you suggest I go about arguing for the points back?
If I remember from my university English 101 course correctly, then the 'that vs. which' rule states, basically: "Use the word 'which' if the clause follows a comma, and use the word 'that' if the clause does not follow a comma."
I, however, believe that the word 'that' is overused. 'That' has come to precede most, if not all clauses not following commas, instead of much more appropriate and relevant words preceding the clauses.
Specifically, instead of using the word "that" to precede clauses which could be considered answers to the questions "Who?", "When?", "Where?", "Why?", "What?", and "How?", the specific words used to precede the clauses should be, respectively, "who(m)", "when", "where", "why", "which", and "how" or "by/in/through/etc which".
Examples:
The people who [or, 'with whom we'] went to the movie...
The time when [also, 'at which'] we saw the movie...
The place where [also, 'in which'] we saw the movie...
The reason why [also, 'for which'] we were late to the movie...
The movie which we saw..
and
The way how [also, 'by which'] we traveled to the theatre...
There is more to the complex process which I use to determine which word to use besides the above heuristic, but it is difficult to describe, because I don't fully understand it myself; it usually just comes naturally to me as to which one to use. However, in general, the above heuristic is usually helpful in situations where it is easy to determine whether to use "that" versus "which".
Now, I am inquiring as to your opinions on this partly because I continue to get marked off points on papers I turn in for my (university) courses, for which, in instances such as these, my usage of "which" instead of "that" strikes the graders as incorrect. I want to know if I have any valid basis for arguing with my professors to get those points back...
However, I am inquiring mostly because my usage of "that" vs. "which" differs from the norm very distinctly, and I am curious as to whether my usage is simply archaic and outdated, or if it is still common. For example, I've seen my usage in some Isaac Asimov novels circa 1940s-1980s, as well as in articles from peer-reviewed psychology journals and monographs circa the same time period...but I haven't encountered my usage in any publications from more recent times. It may be that, because I've read so much of the above material, and have been reading it for such a long time (I've been reading it since January 2006), I simply picked up the usage from the literature and forgot that I did so--but this is not necessarily the case.
My questions for you are: 1) Have you ever encountered usage of 'that' vs. 'which' in the same/similar way as/to which I use them; and 2) How do you, personally, determine whether to use one or the other of the two words; and 3) If you see no problem with the way I use the word 'which' in place of 'that', then (how) do you suggest I go about arguing for the points back?