Gothcon Inquisition
The post on Gothcon Inquisition mysteriously disappeared so I'm posting it here and Shyla will post it on her LJ also.I guess they couldn't take the heat so they had to get out of the kitchen......
Tawanda! dandelion_diva replied to your LiveJournal post in which you said:
Their reply was:
Subject:
Oh. Well, now I'm scared.
Listen lady, if you actually *are* this person's mother, you're a shoddy one. Standing up for your kid when sie has *clearly* fucked up is not only stupid but harmful to the kid.
Btw, this isn't a board, it is a LiveJournal community. Difference.
If people did send death-threats, they're asshats who aren't worth any of our breath.
But this is moronic.
Bye now.
Gessi
Jezebel ladyjezebel replied to your LiveJournal post in which you said:
Subject:
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Dear Madame,
Thank you for your posting. It has been stated numerous times personal attacks, etc. are not tolerated, etc. Therefore this community would be immune against any legal action taken on your part. If the actions you allege are happening, these would individual's actions and not promoted, approved or condoned by this LJ community.
Although I can appreciate your concern over your daughter's welfare, please do not make the mistake of believing that she is pure and innocent and has not herself thrown some nasty and possibly construed threatening remarks.
Peter taintedpeter replied to your LiveJournal post in which you said
Subject: Warning about posting as your own mother
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are certain things about written text you can use to compare two works to see if the authors are the same.
For example, one can count the average number of adjectives before nouns, this pattern is remarkably efficient when comparing text and has even been known to be submissible as part of supporting evidence in a court of law.
Other tell-tale signs are certain textual artefacts like a certain number of spaces after periods. In fact, it is possible to find out if the author is using English or American standards in text simply by noting that the number of spaces is two. Same author derived works also have a habit of using exactly the same kind of emphasis, whether it being capitalisation, emboldened text, italics, underscores or surrounding the statement with asterix'.
Artefacts relevant to this post in particular would also include; no single-spacing after a comma, double quotation-marked sentences include both a period before and after the concluding quotation-mark. Average number of concatenations per sentence.
Now for the remarks themselves which are claimed to come from the mother of the person whom is the subject of the post.
First off, the people who think that there are no laws to protect the daughter of someone from receiving threatening emails is quite astute, there are none that exist, it can be submissible as evidence if logs are kept, headers are kept and other relevant information verified. A simple redirect through anonymous proxy or a specially crafted UDP packet can easily masquerade a header and therefore proving that an email originated from anywhere is extremely difficult unless concurring records are also kept with the sender or the senders account and ISP. Obviously receiving emails that purport to be from organisations are almost always useless as the email must be sufficiently encrypted, signed and verified to be provable in court. Readers may note that emails were sent asking for passwords and credit-card details that apparently originated from Microsoft (MSFT). In a similar sense, a LiveJournal community cannot be held accountable for emails send in their name unless palpable verification is given.
Also I'd like to point out that your post could also be taken as a threat, depending on what you consider would be hell to pay. As no verification to this identity be gleaned, in fact, it seems there is evidence to suggest that this is merely a duplicate identity, my advice would be to simply remove this entire thread as you are perfectly within your rights to do. Further allegations are also made, but because of the previous facts should probably be also ignored. I would suggest that any consideration of litigation by either party would lead to a follow-up counter sue and be thrown out of court if any court or lawyer would pursue it in the first place, which is highly doubtable.
Peter taintedpeter replied to another comment somebody left in your LiveJournal post. The comment they replied to was:
Subject: Re: Warning about posting as your own mother
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please excuse the second post, but I'd also suggest banishment of this poster.
AngelSil angelsil
replied to your LiveJournal post in which you said
Their reply was:
Subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am a moderator on this community and we will be responding to this post later in the day.Obviously, we aim to keep personal attacks off this community. We do not condone attacks of violence or threats thereof and there are none in this forum. We are excersing our first amendment right to get the truth out there and that is the primary purpose of this forum. Your daughter has chosen to be the spokesperson of an event we consider to be fraudulent and that puts us on opposite sides of the fence. Fair enough. However, when invited to come tell us HER point of view, she responded with insults and innuendos of threats. That certainly got a rise out of people, which is what she indicated she wanted in the first place.
Obviously, we cannot be held accountable for what people do off this forum. If you supply me with proof of these emailed threats, I would be more than happy to address the parties involved. In the meantime, I would advise you to view in a clearer light how your daughter chooses to deal with people who don't agree with her. We here did not start the personal attacks. It was Shyla and it was way before this forum even existed - over on GothCon Babylon. In fact, *she* threatened many of *us*. Speaking in legal terms, her words could be considered to be libelous as a minimum.
Regards,
AngelSil
Exterminator replied to another comment somebody left in your LiveJournal post. The comment they replied to was:
Subject: Re:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is everything you are saying in reaction to VIOLENT THREATS towards unbelievable people that I know and that I consider my friends.
I believe a lawyer has to be contacted if these threats persist against Shyla and I certainly will help her with that.
TheOneBob
theonebob
Their reply was:
Subject:
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What violent threats? She has not been threatened on this community. We do not condone any actions of that type. We are merely here to inform people. If anyone here has threatened her, please bring out your evidence. Until then, it's all hearsay.
Exterminator replied to your LiveJournal post in which you said:
Their reply was:
Their reply was: Subject: Re:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is funny how you would condemn diffamation on your community then. It must be my eyes, I am not seeing all these people saying this is not Shyla's mom writing either ?
Yes it's well known Shyla has no mother and I am arguying with these people who find it a "threat" of me to answer them but for them to insinuate it is not you talking well then this is not Diffamation at all either. I am curious to learn if these people know any legal definitions of what they're doing and saying..
Tad Disingenuous
gothboy
Their reply was:
Subject:
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User: gothmom_darlene (1150654)
Date created: 2003-06-29 22:25:03
Do not feed the trolls.
AngelSil
angelsil replied to another comment somebody left in your LiveJournal post. The comment they replied to was:
There have been no threats made against Shyla, her mother, Snow, Caleb, Bobby or anyone else on this community. There may have been derogatory remarks, but there was NO VIOLENCE implied or threatened. As for the derogatory remarks, they pale in comparison to what Shyla herself has called us both in her journal and in other forums for the past 18 months. So, if you ask me, we're even there.
If you will note my above post, I asked Shyla's mother to contact me with the necessary information and I would do what I could to address whomever is making these threats. While we cannot control what an individual does outside of this community, I would certainly be willing to try and reason with whomever feels violence is a solution. We all feel strongly about the GothCon issue (Shyla included if her journal is to be believed), but that is no excuse for threats of violence. Again, it WILL NOT be tolerated.
If someone is making threats of violence against Shyla, then I would encourage her to seek help from the law enforcement community before finding a lawyer. Lawyers are of limited use in this situation. Trust me.
Exterminator replied to another comment somebody left in your LiveJournal post. The comment they replied to was:
Subject: Re:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am at least glad to hear that these threats would not be tolerated here (or in any community). It is still unbeliavable for me to read about what is being said about Shyla's mom. Yes that is her talking.
Lawyers by themselves sure are not of a quick help (but on the long run with obviously any legal procedings) so I do agree also about the help of the law enforcment here, fortunately I have the chance to have both in my entourage (which has been in the past of great help for me). I believe things have gone too far and I cannot not help people whom I love very much that I see go through such a situation.
Rafe etcet replied to another comment somebody left in your LiveJournal post. The comment they replied to was:
Their reply was:
Subject: Shyla = Zaphod ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There was an accident involving a contraceptive and a time machine. . . "
I think it's more than fair to be suspicious of this poster, as pointed out above via posting style [incoherent, rambling, space-free] as well as the general demeanor.
I'll derive some personal amusement from AS playing "good cop," tho. *g*
Exterminator replied to another comment somebody left in your LiveJournal post. The comment they replied to was:
Subject: Re: Subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
oh now the post has been taken down. Perhaps a good move from the moderators because they could also be incriminated if any action is taken. I'm glad I saved it all before though :)
Tawanda! dandelion_diva replied to your LiveJournal post in which you said:
Their reply was:
Subject:
Oh. Well, now I'm scared.
Listen lady, if you actually *are* this person's mother, you're a shoddy one. Standing up for your kid when sie has *clearly* fucked up is not only stupid but harmful to the kid.
Btw, this isn't a board, it is a LiveJournal community. Difference.
If people did send death-threats, they're asshats who aren't worth any of our breath.
But this is moronic.
Bye now.
Gessi
Jezebel ladyjezebel replied to your LiveJournal post in which you said:
Subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Madame,
Thank you for your posting. It has been stated numerous times personal attacks, etc. are not tolerated, etc. Therefore this community would be immune against any legal action taken on your part. If the actions you allege are happening, these would individual's actions and not promoted, approved or condoned by this LJ community.
Although I can appreciate your concern over your daughter's welfare, please do not make the mistake of believing that she is pure and innocent and has not herself thrown some nasty and possibly construed threatening remarks.
Peter taintedpeter replied to your LiveJournal post in which you said
Subject: Warning about posting as your own mother
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are certain things about written text you can use to compare two works to see if the authors are the same.
For example, one can count the average number of adjectives before nouns, this pattern is remarkably efficient when comparing text and has even been known to be submissible as part of supporting evidence in a court of law.
Other tell-tale signs are certain textual artefacts like a certain number of spaces after periods. In fact, it is possible to find out if the author is using English or American standards in text simply by noting that the number of spaces is two. Same author derived works also have a habit of using exactly the same kind of emphasis, whether it being capitalisation, emboldened text, italics, underscores or surrounding the statement with asterix'.
Artefacts relevant to this post in particular would also include; no single-spacing after a comma, double quotation-marked sentences include both a period before and after the concluding quotation-mark. Average number of concatenations per sentence.
Now for the remarks themselves which are claimed to come from the mother of the person whom is the subject of the post.
First off, the people who think that there are no laws to protect the daughter of someone from receiving threatening emails is quite astute, there are none that exist, it can be submissible as evidence if logs are kept, headers are kept and other relevant information verified. A simple redirect through anonymous proxy or a specially crafted UDP packet can easily masquerade a header and therefore proving that an email originated from anywhere is extremely difficult unless concurring records are also kept with the sender or the senders account and ISP. Obviously receiving emails that purport to be from organisations are almost always useless as the email must be sufficiently encrypted, signed and verified to be provable in court. Readers may note that emails were sent asking for passwords and credit-card details that apparently originated from Microsoft (MSFT). In a similar sense, a LiveJournal community cannot be held accountable for emails send in their name unless palpable verification is given.
Also I'd like to point out that your post could also be taken as a threat, depending on what you consider would be hell to pay. As no verification to this identity be gleaned, in fact, it seems there is evidence to suggest that this is merely a duplicate identity, my advice would be to simply remove this entire thread as you are perfectly within your rights to do. Further allegations are also made, but because of the previous facts should probably be also ignored. I would suggest that any consideration of litigation by either party would lead to a follow-up counter sue and be thrown out of court if any court or lawyer would pursue it in the first place, which is highly doubtable.
Peter taintedpeter replied to another comment somebody left in your LiveJournal post. The comment they replied to was:
Subject: Re: Warning about posting as your own mother
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please excuse the second post, but I'd also suggest banishment of this poster.
AngelSil angelsil
replied to your LiveJournal post in which you said
Their reply was:
Subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am a moderator on this community and we will be responding to this post later in the day.Obviously, we aim to keep personal attacks off this community. We do not condone attacks of violence or threats thereof and there are none in this forum. We are excersing our first amendment right to get the truth out there and that is the primary purpose of this forum. Your daughter has chosen to be the spokesperson of an event we consider to be fraudulent and that puts us on opposite sides of the fence. Fair enough. However, when invited to come tell us HER point of view, she responded with insults and innuendos of threats. That certainly got a rise out of people, which is what she indicated she wanted in the first place.
Obviously, we cannot be held accountable for what people do off this forum. If you supply me with proof of these emailed threats, I would be more than happy to address the parties involved. In the meantime, I would advise you to view in a clearer light how your daughter chooses to deal with people who don't agree with her. We here did not start the personal attacks. It was Shyla and it was way before this forum even existed - over on GothCon Babylon. In fact, *she* threatened many of *us*. Speaking in legal terms, her words could be considered to be libelous as a minimum.
Regards,
AngelSil
Exterminator replied to another comment somebody left in your LiveJournal post. The comment they replied to was:
Subject: Re:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is everything you are saying in reaction to VIOLENT THREATS towards unbelievable people that I know and that I consider my friends.
I believe a lawyer has to be contacted if these threats persist against Shyla and I certainly will help her with that.
TheOneBob
theonebob
Their reply was:
Subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What violent threats? She has not been threatened on this community. We do not condone any actions of that type. We are merely here to inform people. If anyone here has threatened her, please bring out your evidence. Until then, it's all hearsay.
Exterminator replied to your LiveJournal post in which you said:
Their reply was:
Their reply was: Subject: Re:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is funny how you would condemn diffamation on your community then. It must be my eyes, I am not seeing all these people saying this is not Shyla's mom writing either ?
Yes it's well known Shyla has no mother and I am arguying with these people who find it a "threat" of me to answer them but for them to insinuate it is not you talking well then this is not Diffamation at all either. I am curious to learn if these people know any legal definitions of what they're doing and saying..
Tad Disingenuous
gothboy
Their reply was:
Subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
User: gothmom_darlene (1150654)
Date created: 2003-06-29 22:25:03
Do not feed the trolls.
AngelSil
angelsil replied to another comment somebody left in your LiveJournal post. The comment they replied to was:
There have been no threats made against Shyla, her mother, Snow, Caleb, Bobby or anyone else on this community. There may have been derogatory remarks, but there was NO VIOLENCE implied or threatened. As for the derogatory remarks, they pale in comparison to what Shyla herself has called us both in her journal and in other forums for the past 18 months. So, if you ask me, we're even there.
If you will note my above post, I asked Shyla's mother to contact me with the necessary information and I would do what I could to address whomever is making these threats. While we cannot control what an individual does outside of this community, I would certainly be willing to try and reason with whomever feels violence is a solution. We all feel strongly about the GothCon issue (Shyla included if her journal is to be believed), but that is no excuse for threats of violence. Again, it WILL NOT be tolerated.
If someone is making threats of violence against Shyla, then I would encourage her to seek help from the law enforcement community before finding a lawyer. Lawyers are of limited use in this situation. Trust me.
Exterminator replied to another comment somebody left in your LiveJournal post. The comment they replied to was:
Subject: Re:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am at least glad to hear that these threats would not be tolerated here (or in any community). It is still unbeliavable for me to read about what is being said about Shyla's mom. Yes that is her talking.
Lawyers by themselves sure are not of a quick help (but on the long run with obviously any legal procedings) so I do agree also about the help of the law enforcment here, fortunately I have the chance to have both in my entourage (which has been in the past of great help for me). I believe things have gone too far and I cannot not help people whom I love very much that I see go through such a situation.
Rafe etcet replied to another comment somebody left in your LiveJournal post. The comment they replied to was:
Their reply was:
Subject: Shyla = Zaphod ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There was an accident involving a contraceptive and a time machine. . . "
I think it's more than fair to be suspicious of this poster, as pointed out above via posting style [incoherent, rambling, space-free] as well as the general demeanor.
I'll derive some personal amusement from AS playing "good cop," tho. *g*
Exterminator replied to another comment somebody left in your LiveJournal post. The comment they replied to was:
Subject: Re: Subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
oh now the post has been taken down. Perhaps a good move from the moderators because they could also be incriminated if any action is taken. I'm glad I saved it all before though :)