Who is Harvey Dent?
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Harvey Dent is many things.
We could go into what he specifically is, Male, White, Blond hair and Blue eyed. He's 6'7, he's athletic and he's handsome. He's an incredibly handsome man who could easily rival Bruce Wayne, Gotham City's Boy Wonder-or perhaps make a career in Hollywood. Fortunately for him (and perhaps unfortunately)
He's doubly blessed too. He's extremely intelligent, a rational and logical individual who applies his rationality and logic to a place where it can (and does) intense good. The Law. Structure and Stability are things that are good for Everybody, but to Harvey they ring true in a way that can't be quantified. He's a man who has a very secure niche in the world and the law is what makes that niche.
Because while Harvey is doubly blessed by looks and brains, he's lacking in what most people would call "Morality".
That doesn't mean that he's not a moral man (goodness) or that he's some sort of sociopath bent on world destruction. It simply means that when it comes to the ideas of right and wrong everything is very...black and white.
Black: Is crime. Corruption specifically. He has made it is career goal to bring down the people in city hall who think that Justice is for sale and that people's lives are bargining tools with which to enhance their own status. His reasons are simple- as George RR Martin said "There is nothing on earth as terrifying as a truly Just man."
And all justice, in the end, is biblical.
He takes particular pride in bringing down corrupt cops. Here his decision wavers. It's Black because it's crime, it's corruption, it's evil in the truest sense of the word but there is a spectre hanging over his entire operation.
Oh he'd never admit it. Not where talkshows and people and talkign heads can here but it is gratifying to look into the faces of people who have gained office guts, looked the other way at murder scenes and done the mob's bidding and see his father.
Because that's the root of the "Black" In Harvey's nature. Harold Dent who through some mischance of fortune (a flip of the coin?) dove into the muck that is anarchy in the human condition and came out soiled. Abusive and Alcoholic, he regularly attacked his wife and left his son watching.
so yes, while there is justice as a motive there is also intense anger and possibly a feeling of revenge.
But Harvey'd never admit it.
White: Is the good that Harvey Dent sees and has seen. Canonically he's discussed as someone with mental disorders-an individual who might be bipolar or schitozphrenic. A trade mark symptom of these disorders are frantic bouts of manic activity that we can assume (at least in Harvey's case) has allowed him to experience the terrible lows of humanity along with the dizzying highs.
Harvey-in some way or another-has seen the good that people can do and that the law can do. He believes in what he's doing-something which makes him dangerous. The law gives him stability and he believes in that-and in order to keep it he persues the white course of action. The good in all people because doing that keeps him stable.
As he sees it, the law is fundamentally designed to keep people safe and therefore is something to be preserved and protected. It's an almost symbiotic relationship. He keeps himself stable and protects people which feeds his ego.
Ego
Harvey Dent is a vain man.
He doesn't admit it and he doesn't act like it because his vanity isn't rooted in his intense good looks or his mind. He's vain because he believes and because he has power and he will do whatever it takes to protect that power. Not because he wants power or because he wants control but because he wants to keep that stability.
We see this FREQUENTLY after what happens to Harvey in the film. He's angry because what happened to him could have been prevented. He's bitter and sad because people-good people have died because people didn't listen to him. His vanity is in that he assumed (wrongly) that his opinion was the only one that mattered. "My way or the highway" only works in principle.
In short, I feel that he's unwilling to compromise as far as his beliefs are concerned but expects other people to fall in line with what he wants. It's subtle but it's there. "This needs to happen. Let's work together on this now." All bluster and charging in gun's blazing, sword drawn but it has to be done his way. or else.
The same applies to his attitude about batman.
Batman:
This is taken directly from the novel.
"...You want him to be your shadow?"
"Exactly." Harvey said, "He goes where I can't go, does things that I shouldn't. Meantime I take what he gives me and go into court and do what he can't. Together we clean up gotham."
He respects Batman and admires him, going so far as to not offer a concrete opinion on the batman and ergo possibly (potentially?) risk his career in doing so. I think in the end he sees himself in Batman, someone who's a potential ally because he acts the same way Harvey does.
Odds and Ends
After repeated viewings of interviews and such involving the Nolan crew, I think I can condense Harvey into the following statements:
He's out for revenge, not crime. He's specifically looking for people to teach lessons to. What happened to him (and by proxy what happened to Rachel/Gotham City) could have been avoided.
What he doesn't realize is that he's a terrific hard-ass about it and ergo being vengeful is something that isn't really going to accomplish anything.
Being in power is slowly unraveling his mind and possibly (potentially) something that's finished by the time he becomes Two-Face. when faced with corruption he's "Like a surgeon that's only allowed to make superficial cuts."
He is a truly just man which makes him scary because in the end if you remove compassion from Justice you have a force willing to go biblical-adn biblical justice is the sort of thing that destroyed the world in the bible with Noah and such.
In short, who is harvey dent?
Harvey Dent is a villain for the post-911 world who's goal isn't crime or furthering his own agenda but punishment. The sort of people that we leave in the cracks when things take a turn for the worst. The do-or-die-sacrifice yourself for the good of all humanity who's name in the end will be shunted to the background in favor for praise of Batman etc. etc.
Psh. Not if we have anything to say about it.
Munly plans
Harvey is a difficult character to play. On the one hand there's what happens to him in canon, what happens to him in comic canon, and what happens to him in movie canon- you can't definitively talk about him in future-tense.
Which is okay. I've got enough puppets who I can think of long-standing plots for. I can think of some for Harvey too-it's just theirs are louder and don't involve extended stays in mental institutions.
Ideally (if all goes according to plan and there's always a plan) Harvey will come in mid-TDK. I have a fantastic EP planned from the point in the film where Wayne knocks him out to do battle with the clown and he ends up-in short-in milliways unconcious. From there I'm leaving all direction up to the clown.
At some point however Harvey Dent's going to go over to the Darkside. The reprocussions from that will be played out.
Once again, the future is unclear. while Dent is dead, Eckhart has signed on for the third movie (reportedly) along with Maggie G-his erstwhile squeeze. At this point I'm thinking that I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Either Harvey's Dead and doomed to wander the bar as a ghost until I think of things to not do with him or he's y'know, in a coma of some sort and will wake up in Gotham to cause more Mayhem and mischief. that's how I'm playing him at theatrical_muse at any rate.
In accordance wtih this, I fully intend to get my other three puppets-Racer X, Muldoon, and Matt Parkman up to speed. Four should round me out nicely and I do believe I'll stop bothering y'all after him.
Why Harvey? I've been playing him in mixed_muses for the better part of a year sometimes foresaking my other puppet duties. He's a strong headvoice and I've wanted to see him in bar FOREVER.
That's all-pretty much. :)
Harvey Dent is many things.
We could go into what he specifically is, Male, White, Blond hair and Blue eyed. He's 6'7, he's athletic and he's handsome. He's an incredibly handsome man who could easily rival Bruce Wayne, Gotham City's Boy Wonder-or perhaps make a career in Hollywood. Fortunately for him (and perhaps unfortunately)
He's doubly blessed too. He's extremely intelligent, a rational and logical individual who applies his rationality and logic to a place where it can (and does) intense good. The Law. Structure and Stability are things that are good for Everybody, but to Harvey they ring true in a way that can't be quantified. He's a man who has a very secure niche in the world and the law is what makes that niche.
Because while Harvey is doubly blessed by looks and brains, he's lacking in what most people would call "Morality".
That doesn't mean that he's not a moral man (goodness) or that he's some sort of sociopath bent on world destruction. It simply means that when it comes to the ideas of right and wrong everything is very...black and white.
Black: Is crime. Corruption specifically. He has made it is career goal to bring down the people in city hall who think that Justice is for sale and that people's lives are bargining tools with which to enhance their own status. His reasons are simple- as George RR Martin said "There is nothing on earth as terrifying as a truly Just man."
And all justice, in the end, is biblical.
He takes particular pride in bringing down corrupt cops. Here his decision wavers. It's Black because it's crime, it's corruption, it's evil in the truest sense of the word but there is a spectre hanging over his entire operation.
Oh he'd never admit it. Not where talkshows and people and talkign heads can here but it is gratifying to look into the faces of people who have gained office guts, looked the other way at murder scenes and done the mob's bidding and see his father.
Because that's the root of the "Black" In Harvey's nature. Harold Dent who through some mischance of fortune (a flip of the coin?) dove into the muck that is anarchy in the human condition and came out soiled. Abusive and Alcoholic, he regularly attacked his wife and left his son watching.
so yes, while there is justice as a motive there is also intense anger and possibly a feeling of revenge.
But Harvey'd never admit it.
White: Is the good that Harvey Dent sees and has seen. Canonically he's discussed as someone with mental disorders-an individual who might be bipolar or schitozphrenic. A trade mark symptom of these disorders are frantic bouts of manic activity that we can assume (at least in Harvey's case) has allowed him to experience the terrible lows of humanity along with the dizzying highs.
Harvey-in some way or another-has seen the good that people can do and that the law can do. He believes in what he's doing-something which makes him dangerous. The law gives him stability and he believes in that-and in order to keep it he persues the white course of action. The good in all people because doing that keeps him stable.
As he sees it, the law is fundamentally designed to keep people safe and therefore is something to be preserved and protected. It's an almost symbiotic relationship. He keeps himself stable and protects people which feeds his ego.
Ego
Harvey Dent is a vain man.
He doesn't admit it and he doesn't act like it because his vanity isn't rooted in his intense good looks or his mind. He's vain because he believes and because he has power and he will do whatever it takes to protect that power. Not because he wants power or because he wants control but because he wants to keep that stability.
We see this FREQUENTLY after what happens to Harvey in the film. He's angry because what happened to him could have been prevented. He's bitter and sad because people-good people have died because people didn't listen to him. His vanity is in that he assumed (wrongly) that his opinion was the only one that mattered. "My way or the highway" only works in principle.
In short, I feel that he's unwilling to compromise as far as his beliefs are concerned but expects other people to fall in line with what he wants. It's subtle but it's there. "This needs to happen. Let's work together on this now." All bluster and charging in gun's blazing, sword drawn but it has to be done his way. or else.
The same applies to his attitude about batman.
Batman:
This is taken directly from the novel.
"...You want him to be your shadow?"
"Exactly." Harvey said, "He goes where I can't go, does things that I shouldn't. Meantime I take what he gives me and go into court and do what he can't. Together we clean up gotham."
He respects Batman and admires him, going so far as to not offer a concrete opinion on the batman and ergo possibly (potentially?) risk his career in doing so. I think in the end he sees himself in Batman, someone who's a potential ally because he acts the same way Harvey does.
Odds and Ends
After repeated viewings of interviews and such involving the Nolan crew, I think I can condense Harvey into the following statements:
He's out for revenge, not crime. He's specifically looking for people to teach lessons to. What happened to him (and by proxy what happened to Rachel/Gotham City) could have been avoided.
What he doesn't realize is that he's a terrific hard-ass about it and ergo being vengeful is something that isn't really going to accomplish anything.
Being in power is slowly unraveling his mind and possibly (potentially) something that's finished by the time he becomes Two-Face. when faced with corruption he's "Like a surgeon that's only allowed to make superficial cuts."
He is a truly just man which makes him scary because in the end if you remove compassion from Justice you have a force willing to go biblical-adn biblical justice is the sort of thing that destroyed the world in the bible with Noah and such.
In short, who is harvey dent?
Harvey Dent is a villain for the post-911 world who's goal isn't crime or furthering his own agenda but punishment. The sort of people that we leave in the cracks when things take a turn for the worst. The do-or-die-sacrifice yourself for the good of all humanity who's name in the end will be shunted to the background in favor for praise of Batman etc. etc.
Psh. Not if we have anything to say about it.
Munly plans
Harvey is a difficult character to play. On the one hand there's what happens to him in canon, what happens to him in comic canon, and what happens to him in movie canon- you can't definitively talk about him in future-tense.
Which is okay. I've got enough puppets who I can think of long-standing plots for. I can think of some for Harvey too-it's just theirs are louder and don't involve extended stays in mental institutions.
Ideally (if all goes according to plan and there's always a plan) Harvey will come in mid-TDK. I have a fantastic EP planned from the point in the film where Wayne knocks him out to do battle with the clown and he ends up-in short-in milliways unconcious. From there I'm leaving all direction up to the clown.
At some point however Harvey Dent's going to go over to the Darkside. The reprocussions from that will be played out.
Once again, the future is unclear. while Dent is dead, Eckhart has signed on for the third movie (reportedly) along with Maggie G-his erstwhile squeeze. At this point I'm thinking that I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Either Harvey's Dead and doomed to wander the bar as a ghost until I think of things to not do with him or he's y'know, in a coma of some sort and will wake up in Gotham to cause more Mayhem and mischief. that's how I'm playing him at theatrical_muse at any rate.
In accordance wtih this, I fully intend to get my other three puppets-Racer X, Muldoon, and Matt Parkman up to speed. Four should round me out nicely and I do believe I'll stop bothering y'all after him.
Why Harvey? I've been playing him in mixed_muses for the better part of a year sometimes foresaking my other puppet duties. He's a strong headvoice and I've wanted to see him in bar FOREVER.
That's all-pretty much. :)