How can they accept a government which now routinely steals 50% of their income?
... exsqueeze me? No, you have to be in a pretty high tax bracket for that to be true. Some people make so little that they only pay Social Security - which is split with the employer unless you are self-employed so that's around %7.5 last I checked. The highest paying jobs I've ever had (at least, on the record) ending up taking somewhere between 20-30% for taxes (total, including social security).
How can they accept the Soviet-style healthcare system being pushed on us,Please explain to me
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How can they accept a government which now routinely steals 50% of their income? ... exsqueeze me? No, you have to be in a pretty high tax bracket for that to be true.
I usually say that rhetorically. But now I'm taking a look at a recent paycheck to get actual numbers:
17.9% federal income tax 5.9% state income tax 6.1% social security tax, my portion (but yes, I've heard it's 7.5% on average) 6.1% social security tax, employer-paid portion (which would otherwise be available for my pay) 1.4% medicare tax 7.8% sales tax (assuming I spend everything I have remaining) _____ 45.2% total
That's pretty close to 50%. And I didn't make six figures, that's for sure.
That said, it's easy to fall into the trap of debating whether taxes are "too high". (And this is way too high.) Instead, I'd rather debate the philosophy of taxes themselves. I think taxation ... at any level ... is highly unethical
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I am sorry, but you don't get to count the portion of social security that your employer pays, because no, they would NOT pay you more if they could. Business exists to make profit. They would add it to their profit. This is obvious.
You also do not get to count sales tax, because especially people in higher tax brackets definitely do not even come close to spending all of their income, and often invest their savings in some pretty high-yield investments, or manage to hide it in ways that you or I cannot so that it doesn't even count as their assets.
This brings your taxation to: 31.3%
Consider your own situation. You don't have kids. But you're still taxed to pay to educate other people's kids in the government-run public school system.
ALL OF SOCIETY benefits from children being educated. Or maybe you'd rather there be even more unsupervised, bored, uneducated children that have nothing better to do during the day than steal your bike and spray paint your garage whom, assuming they make it to adulthood, will be unable to hold
( ... )
I am sorry, but you don't get to count the portion of social security that your employer pays, because no, they would NOT pay you more if they could. Business exists to make profit. They would add it to their profit.
Maybe some businesses might pocket the money ... at first. But other businesses would see an opportunity to attract skilled people over from their competitors by offering higher wages, giving themselves a competitive advantage. Eventually, all employers would have to pay out the extra money in wages.
But even if they didn't, and that money went into the business's profit, so what? What happens to those profits? They get re-invested. Owners have more money to expand their businesses & factories, and hire more people. Either way, it would benefit workers & society.
ALL OF SOCIETY benefits from children being educated.True. But all of society benefits from ALL TYPES OF BUSINESS. When you buy vegetables from the supermarket, it benefits you & the supermarket, but it also benefits the truckers who shipped the food,
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Everyone will be forced to accept it. Even if we don't choose to use a government-managed plan (assuming a "universal" plan doesn't pass & some private options remain for a while), we'll still be burdened with paying for it with even more taxes.
Yeah, a whopping 1-2% more in taxes, ONLY ON PEOPLE WHO MAKE MORE THAN $250K/YEAR. Think they'll really miss it? I don't. They just think they will.
In the Soviet Union, the government controlled all industry.
... which is not true here, and will still not be even close to true here if a public health care option is made available along side private health care.
The lesson is clear. The more government-controlled the economy, the more impoverished & miserable life is. The more free the economy, the healthier & more enjoyable living is. Increasingly, I'd tend to put America in the former category rather than the latter.But what does this have to do with offering a public health care option? NOTHING. Lok at Canada. Look at the UK (where despite your ONE bad anecdote regarding the ambulance
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a whopping 1-2% more in taxes, ONLY ON PEOPLE WHO MAKE MORE THAN $250K/YEAR
The tax increase will ultimately be much more than that; politicians always underestimate the costs when they're campaigning for a new program. And if you think only the wealthy will be affected, then you do not have the proper skepticism of government.
As an example, in 1916, Congress instituted the Personal Income Tax. At the time they promised it would only affect the richest 2%. Naturally, 98% thought this was a great idea, which is why it passed. Well ... do you know anyone who doesn't pay an income tax today? This is how they shoehorn things in; once people get suckered into accepting it, they can expand it far beyond what anyone anticipated.
In the Soviet Union, the government controlled all industry. ... which is not true here
Give it a few more years. Whatever healthcare legislation gets passed, it'll be another step in that direction.
Look at the UK (where despite your ONE bad anecdote regarding the ambulance, most of the people say they
( ... )
Comments 9
... exsqueeze me? No, you have to be in a pretty high tax bracket for that to be true. Some people make so little that they only pay Social Security - which is split with the employer unless you are self-employed so that's around %7.5 last I checked. The highest paying jobs I've ever had (at least, on the record) ending up taking somewhere between 20-30% for taxes (total, including social security).
How can they accept the Soviet-style healthcare system being pushed on us,Please explain to me ( ... )
Reply
I usually say that rhetorically. But now I'm taking a look at a recent paycheck to get actual numbers:
17.9% federal income tax
5.9% state income tax
6.1% social security tax, my portion (but yes, I've heard it's 7.5% on average)
6.1% social security tax, employer-paid portion (which would otherwise be available for my pay)
1.4% medicare tax
7.8% sales tax (assuming I spend everything I have remaining)
_____
45.2% total
That's pretty close to 50%. And I didn't make six figures, that's for sure.
That said, it's easy to fall into the trap of debating whether taxes are "too high". (And this is way too high.) Instead, I'd rather debate the philosophy of taxes themselves. I think taxation ... at any level ... is highly unethical ( ... )
Reply
You also do not get to count sales tax, because especially people in higher tax brackets definitely do not even come close to spending all of their income, and often invest their savings in some pretty high-yield investments, or manage to hide it in ways that you or I cannot so that it doesn't even count as their assets.
This brings your taxation to: 31.3%
Consider your own situation. You don't have kids. But you're still taxed to pay to educate other people's kids in the government-run public school system.
ALL OF SOCIETY benefits from children being educated. Or maybe you'd rather there be even more unsupervised, bored, uneducated children that have nothing better to do during the day than steal your bike and spray paint your garage whom, assuming they make it to adulthood, will be unable to hold ( ... )
Reply
Maybe some businesses might pocket the money ... at first. But other businesses would see an opportunity to attract skilled people over from their competitors by offering higher wages, giving themselves a competitive advantage. Eventually, all employers would have to pay out the extra money in wages.
But even if they didn't, and that money went into the business's profit, so what? What happens to those profits? They get re-invested. Owners have more money to expand their businesses & factories, and hire more people. Either way, it would benefit workers & society.
ALL OF SOCIETY benefits from children being educated.True. But all of society benefits from ALL TYPES OF BUSINESS. When you buy vegetables from the supermarket, it benefits you & the supermarket, but it also benefits the truckers who shipped the food, ( ... )
Reply
Yeah, a whopping 1-2% more in taxes, ONLY ON PEOPLE WHO MAKE MORE THAN $250K/YEAR. Think they'll really miss it? I don't. They just think they will.
In the Soviet Union, the government controlled all industry.
... which is not true here, and will still not be even close to true here if a public health care option is made available along side private health care.
The lesson is clear. The more government-controlled the economy, the more impoverished & miserable life is. The more free the economy, the healthier & more enjoyable living is. Increasingly, I'd tend to put America in the former category rather than the latter.But what does this have to do with offering a public health care option? NOTHING. Lok at Canada. Look at the UK (where despite your ONE bad anecdote regarding the ambulance ( ... )
Reply
The tax increase will ultimately be much more than that; politicians always underestimate the costs when they're campaigning for a new program. And if you think only the wealthy will be affected, then you do not have the proper skepticism of government.
As an example, in 1916, Congress instituted the Personal Income Tax. At the time they promised it would only affect the richest 2%. Naturally, 98% thought this was a great idea, which is why it passed. Well ... do you know anyone who doesn't pay an income tax today? This is how they shoehorn things in; once people get suckered into accepting it, they can expand it far beyond what anyone anticipated.
In the Soviet Union, the government controlled all industry. ... which is not true here
Give it a few more years. Whatever healthcare legislation gets passed, it'll be another step in that direction.
Look at the UK (where despite your ONE bad anecdote regarding the ambulance, most of the people say they ( ... )
Reply
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