Huh, but with the trust thing there are two different things mixed. Damon's question wasn't: "Do you trust me to behave?" (because you're right, she totally can't do that); his question was: "Do you trust me to figure out a decent back-up plan?" (which she totally can, because it is in his own best interest).
But she did echo it at the end, didn't she? With the "Can you trust me?" which in my mind gave it more of a significance than JUST being about trusting Damon to come up with a good plan. Though... I guess... I'm not opposed to them having this strong bond built on trust as long as it gets deconstructed?
So of course she would touch Damon like that, and she would touch Bonnie in the very same way. Only Damon is not Bonnie, and HE felt that there were some weird undertones in it (just look at his face), so the whole thing started feeling a bit weird. Elena probably noticed the undertone, but for her everything started out in a totally innocent way: she wanted to comfort him and she needed his attention, so she just grabbed him. She feels 100% comfortable around him right now, it's him who has a problem.
HEE I can see all that, but I was very much getting the feeling that something would have happened there if Katherine hadn't called. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT. I really need this hiatus to sort out all of my feelings.
. They obviously have been physically attracted to each other, for a long while. And what have they done with it? Absolutely nothing. It shows that a girl can be attracted to a guy that is totally wrong, and there is nothing wrong with the attraction itself. It also shows that sometimes attraction is not enough to have sex with someone.
I LOVE ALL THIS. I would love to see this explored more. It does seem like we're going to be diving more into D/E territory when the show comes back and I'm really curious to see how they're going to play it.
And there is the fact that he is an evil, impulsive, insane, bloodsucking mass-murderer, and she is a stubborn, self-deluding eighteen-year-old with double moral standards. It is just BOUND to blow up in their faces, and more than once.
THIS. Is the D/E I want to see. (I would not be opposed if you wrote more meta on D/E during the hiatus. I always love reading your perspective on them. And then I could lurk in the comments as you and ever_neutral go back and forth!).
(long comments are long, and Katherine totally was my queen)
KAT BASICALLY WON EVERYTHING THIS EPISODE DID SHE NOT
Thank you so much :D. ever-neutral prompted me to write a Big Damn Damon/Elena meta, December 13 is my deadline. Right now I'm in the process of plotting ;).
But she did echo it at the end, didn't she? With the "Can you trust me?" which in my mind gave it more of a significance than JUST being about trusting Damon to come up with a good plan.
Maybe a bit, but then it's Elena's thing to trust too much, just as much as it's Caroline's thing to forgive too much. She needs someone to trust, and she's lost Stefan, so she wants to trust Damon. She is going to believe him every single time until she breaks, because she needs to. She feels a connection with him, so she needs him to be better, because that means that she can be better too. So, practically, she is going to trust Damon even if it kills her, because if she gives up on Damon, she'd also have to give up on herself. The problem with interpretation is that we see Elena as moraly superior to Damon, but for Elena herself they are alike. So she needs Damon to be trustworthy, just like Caroline needs to throw Elena a birthday party and do everything to make it perfect. It's her way of coping.
HEE I can see all that, but I was very much getting the feeling that something would have happened there if Katherine hadn't called. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT.
Huh, I don't think it would? Damon wouldn't go for Elena in a way that leaves her an opening to reject him again (or, God forbid, ACCEPT him, because that would be scary as hell for him), and Elena needs a stronger motivation to go for Damon than just "We blew our diabolical plan no 394". So I guess that the awkward would lead either to more awkward or to a hug.
KAT BASICALLY WON EVERYTHING THIS EPISODE DID SHE NOT
She was just amazing. And this is the first time since I started watching TVD that I can honestly say that I UNDERSTAND Damon/Katherine. FLAWLESS.
I just continue to have a really big problem with 'they have obviously been physically attracted to each other' because, since when? What sign has ever been given that Elena is attracted to Damon? She's repeatedly upset, disturbed and uncomfortable in response to his physical advances - every single one - she repeatedly tells him she's not interested and I, to be frank, am tired of seeing in every fandom people stating unequivocally that a woman's stated desires, interests and intentions are ~obviously~ false or ~obviously~ contrary to what she says because he says so - because the male character wants to have sex with her, basically.
Also the fact that he has sexually assaulted her too many times to count but it's fruitless to bring that up with fandom, they do not give a shit. THAT WOULD REQUIRE PRIORITIZING HER.
She's repeatedly upset, disturbed and uncomfortable in response to his physical advances - every single one - she repeatedly tells him she's not interested
This is true for s1, and a good part of s2, but not any more. In s3 we have Caroline confronting Elena about her attraction to Damon, and Elena not being able to deny it. But the point is that feeling attraction and giving consent are two different things; you can be attracted to someone like hell, and still not want to have sex with them. So yes, I see Elena's attraction in her behavior and body language, and I see it in her conversation with Caroline. I don't see it because Damon says so, first of all because Damon simply doesn't say a word about it (the last time he did it was 2x01, and back then he was totally wrong about it); he actually thinks that Elena doesn't want him, and rightly so. She is attracted to him, but she doesn't want to act according to this attraction, and I never said that she should. I like this. I like that Elena can separate attraction from decision, and that she takes multiple factors into consideration when she chooses not to have sex with Damon. For example the fact that he is an impulsive, unpredictable, abusive monster who eventually would hurt her. My favorite thing about Elena is that she is a character fighting against anything that could take her choices away, so for me it makes sense that she would be the character to be like: "Ok, this guy is hot, but I also have reasons not to have sex with him, and those reasons are more important for me than the fact that he is hot, so I decide not to have sex with him".
And then I could lurk in the comments as you and ever_neutral go back and forth!
HAHAHA ADORBS.
Re: the trust thing. I've kinda been talking about this all over the place, but--it's really more about Elena becoming disillusioned with the rest of the world. I mean, you're absolutely right about Damon breaking her trust dozens of times. But in a very twisted turn of events, I think she may actually be trusting him now because of that. Her romantic ideals re: Stefan are being ground into the dirt right now, ergo it makes sense that she'd cleave to the guy who refuses to let her idealise him (e.g. 3.04). He's let her down innumerable times--and yet, their friendship perseveres. Because their relationship isn't actually built on trust so much as it's rooted in understanding? And the understanding will always be there even when the trust isn't. I think THAT'S what Elena's putting her trust in. IDK if that remotely makes sense, but that's my $0.02.
But she did echo it at the end, didn't she? With the "Can you trust me?" which in my mind gave it more of a significance than JUST being about trusting Damon to come up with a good plan. Though... I guess... I'm not opposed to them having this strong bond built on trust as long as it gets deconstructed?
So of course she would touch Damon like that, and she would touch Bonnie in the very same way. Only Damon is not Bonnie, and HE felt that there were some weird undertones in it (just look at his face), so the whole thing started feeling a bit weird. Elena probably noticed the undertone, but for her everything started out in a totally innocent way: she wanted to comfort him and she needed his attention, so she just grabbed him. She feels 100% comfortable around him right now, it's him who has a problem.
HEE I can see all that, but I was very much getting the feeling that something would have happened there if Katherine hadn't called. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT. I really need this hiatus to sort out all of my feelings.
. They obviously have been physically attracted to each other, for a long while. And what have they done with it? Absolutely nothing. It shows that a girl can be attracted to a guy that is totally wrong, and there is nothing wrong with the attraction itself. It also shows that sometimes attraction is not enough to have sex with someone.
I LOVE ALL THIS. I would love to see this explored more. It does seem like we're going to be diving more into D/E territory when the show comes back and I'm really curious to see how they're going to play it.
And there is the fact that he is an evil, impulsive, insane, bloodsucking mass-murderer, and she is a stubborn, self-deluding eighteen-year-old with double moral standards. It is just BOUND to blow up in their faces, and more than once.
THIS. Is the D/E I want to see. (I would not be opposed if you wrote more meta on D/E during the hiatus. I always love reading your perspective on them. And then I could lurk in the comments as you and ever_neutral go back and forth!).
(long comments are long, and Katherine totally was my queen)
KAT BASICALLY WON EVERYTHING THIS EPISODE DID SHE NOT
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But she did echo it at the end, didn't she? With the "Can you trust me?" which in my mind gave it more of a significance than JUST being about trusting Damon to come up with a good plan.
Maybe a bit, but then it's Elena's thing to trust too much, just as much as it's Caroline's thing to forgive too much. She needs someone to trust, and she's lost Stefan, so she wants to trust Damon. She is going to believe him every single time until she breaks, because she needs to. She feels a connection with him, so she needs him to be better, because that means that she can be better too. So, practically, she is going to trust Damon even if it kills her, because if she gives up on Damon, she'd also have to give up on herself. The problem with interpretation is that we see Elena as moraly superior to Damon, but for Elena herself they are alike. So she needs Damon to be trustworthy, just like Caroline needs to throw Elena a birthday party and do everything to make it perfect. It's her way of coping.
HEE I can see all that, but I was very much getting the feeling that something would have happened there if Katherine hadn't called. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT.
Huh, I don't think it would? Damon wouldn't go for Elena in a way that leaves her an opening to reject him again (or, God forbid, ACCEPT him, because that would be scary as hell for him), and Elena needs a stronger motivation to go for Damon than just "We blew our diabolical plan no 394". So I guess that the awkward would lead either to more awkward or to a hug.
KAT BASICALLY WON EVERYTHING THIS EPISODE DID SHE NOT
She was just amazing. And this is the first time since I started watching TVD that I can honestly say that I UNDERSTAND Damon/Katherine. FLAWLESS.
Reply
Also the fact that he has sexually assaulted her too many times to count but it's fruitless to bring that up with fandom, they do not give a shit. THAT WOULD REQUIRE PRIORITIZING HER.
Reply
This is true for s1, and a good part of s2, but not any more. In s3 we have Caroline confronting Elena about her attraction to Damon, and Elena not being able to deny it. But the point is that feeling attraction and giving consent are two different things; you can be attracted to someone like hell, and still not want to have sex with them. So yes, I see Elena's attraction in her behavior and body language, and I see it in her conversation with Caroline. I don't see it because Damon says so, first of all because Damon simply doesn't say a word about it (the last time he did it was 2x01, and back then he was totally wrong about it); he actually thinks that Elena doesn't want him, and rightly so. She is attracted to him, but she doesn't want to act according to this attraction, and I never said that she should. I like this. I like that Elena can separate attraction from decision, and that she takes multiple factors into consideration when she chooses not to have sex with Damon. For example the fact that he is an impulsive, unpredictable, abusive monster who eventually would hurt her. My favorite thing about Elena is that she is a character fighting against anything that could take her choices away, so for me it makes sense that she would be the character to be like: "Ok, this guy is hot, but I also have reasons not to have sex with him, and those reasons are more important for me than the fact that he is hot, so I decide not to have sex with him".
Reply
HAHAHA ADORBS.
Re: the trust thing. I've kinda been talking about this all over the place, but--it's really more about Elena becoming disillusioned with the rest of the world. I mean, you're absolutely right about Damon breaking her trust dozens of times. But in a very twisted turn of events, I think she may actually be trusting him now because of that. Her romantic ideals re: Stefan are being ground into the dirt right now, ergo it makes sense that she'd cleave to the guy who refuses to let her idealise him (e.g. 3.04). He's let her down innumerable times--and yet, their friendship perseveres. Because their relationship isn't actually built on trust so much as it's rooted in understanding? And the understanding will always be there even when the trust isn't. I think THAT'S what Elena's putting her trust in. IDK if that remotely makes sense, but that's my $0.02.
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