OH HEY TYLER WAS BACK (and I guess he has been gone like three days in TVD time? LOL WHAT IS THIS SHOW’S TIMELINE). He and Caroline had a few moments which gave me shippy feelings again.
It's the way he looks at her. I COULD TENS OF THOUSANDS OF FICS ABOUT THE WAY TYLER LOOKS AT CAROLINE!
Actually I was back to finding Damon interesting this week rather than gross especially since I felt like the show was telling us that he was wrong and fucked up
I couldn't get over that this week-and I'm so done with Damon right now. I think the issue is that the show tells us that it was wrong, but it will be forgiven before the season is over AND I WANT CONSEQUENCES DAMN IT!
HE HELPED SAVE HER. WITH A LOADED STAKE GUN. MATT, WHEN DID YOU GET KIND OF INTERESTING AND HOT.
I chalk this up to Mattie thinking on his own again. There is nothing hotter than a man capable of independent, rational thought and rock-hard absI won't even try to quote all the Stefan/Elena stuff because I AGREE WITH ALL OF IT SO DARN HARD! The OTP just broke my
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I couldn't get over that this week-and I'm so done with Damon right now. I think the issue is that the show tells us that it was wrong, but it will be forgiven before the season is over AND I WANT CONSEQUENCES DAMN IT!
I KNOW. Like, honestly? Their steadfast refusal to allow any of his victims to respond in proportionate ways really, to me, is just flat-out not dealing with it as wrong, and is horrible to the victims themselves on so many levels being but ugh we won't talk about my personal issues getting all over this show.
Exactly! If they're trying to make the shift from bad guy to kind of good guy, they're going about it the wrong way. He abuses Elena this episode and his excuse is that he loves her . . . I just can't stomach it.
The shift in the way the show views Damon's actions and the actions of everybody else is jarring and nauseating. Stefan's much milder actions of protectiveness get called on. Logan Fell was considered horrible.
KATERINA EFFING PETROVA STATED IT FLAT OUT IN CANON, THOUGH HER STATEMENT COVERED ABOUT 1/16 OF ALL THE FACTORS THAT MAKE THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT ABSOLUTELY TRUE FOR DAMON --> ELENA.
I feel people handwave a lot of things that Damon does because they figure he could do a lot worse. Stefan gets harsher treatment because people expect more of him.
I often feel I'm in the minority when I openly expect ANYTHING from Damon, in terms of decent behaviour. I love him, I do, but he's being creepy and domineering and just controlling over someone WHO IS TOTALLY DATING HIS LITTLE BROTHER!
*Takes a deep breath* Man! He's really pissed me off this week.
I see this a lot in fandom and it makes me mad as hell. I can and always will demand and expect that a person treat women as people. I've been getting a faceful of it lately from The Borgias fandom in regards to ~historical accuracy~ - although the show acknowledges his actions as horrible - and it's just - ANGERFLAIL, NO, 'COULD BE WORSE' IS NOT EVER, EVER A DEFENCE. Sometimes it's a defence mechanism. Never a defence.
I think that Elena has to forgive Stefan in order to ensure parallels/repetition of themes etc. lol. Because the thing that started Damon on his downward spiral was the fact that he wouldn't forgive Stefan and held on to his bitterness and anger. So I think the show is going to have Elena forgive Damon to show how ~freeing and ~healing it is.
But does he deserve to be forgiven? Does he deserve to be trusted? This is my biggest issue on the show-if they keep forgiving him for doing this kind of stuff, he's never going to stop doing this kind of stuff.
I just . . . if he's going to change, let's start the change already. If he isn't, then let him go back to being the quasi-bad guy. It's not that I want him to turn into Stefan-I just want him to acknowledge that what he wants isn't the end all of everything. And if he's going to keep tossing around the L word in regards to Elena (that's 'love' people), then prove it in a way that doesn't make it all about what HE wants.
I'm sorry. This whole thing is about choices and one of my biggest things is men making decisions for women because they think they know better. It's a personal thing, but it is a thing. And when you have Stefan to compare to, Damon just looks worse.
Did Stefan deserve to be forgiven? I think the point the show is trying to get at is more about how holding on to bitterness and anger can destroy you. E.G. It's looking at forgiveness as therapeutic. I think that's the point the show is trying to make
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With Stefan, I don't know, but I feel like he never acts like he SHOULD be forgiven-like it's just something that should happen because they have to move on now. Stefan's carried the weight of that decision around with him for a while, and I think that's one of the reasons why he pulls back from the Elena issue so much.
As for his actions that day, I don't see it as being passive. Yeah, he isn't out there trying to find a way to buy Elena a month, because it can't be done. Elena disappears or something happens, people are going to die. That's the one thing Elena is trying to avoid-I like to think that he respects, or at least accepts, this more than Damon. And yeah, I don't think he sees the down side of having Elena with him forever-I just love the fact that he never made that decision for her.
He's there to be her sounding board for when she talks about how she doesn't want to be a vampire, but he doesn't even try to do anything about it. Is it because he subconsciously wants her to turn so they can be together forever? IDGI.YMMV on this of course, but I thought that end scene where Klaus shows up and Stefan is all "NO!!!!" and nearly goes after him showed that He Was Not Okay With It and it only took Elena intervening to remind him that all he would accomplish by going after Klaus is getting killed. IDK, I took that to mean that Stefan was way less happy with the Elena becoming a vampire plan than their previous plan (plus the way he nearly BEAT DAMON TO DEATH was a pretty strong indication of his feelings in my mind). So I'm not really sure there was this subconscious desire for her to turn
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Whether he should have done something else other than climb a mountain with Elena is a valid question, but Stefan made the ~I believe in her~ speech early on and was pretty committed to doing things Elena's way. I mean, I guess he could have gone Damon's route and refused to cooperate with Elena, but then he would just get criticized for being secretive and selfish, so.
Yeah, this. I mean, the way I see it, Stefan could have tried to delay the sacrifice for another time and spend fruitless hours trying to stop it, even though there was no guarantee he would have been able to actually do anything (like, Damon tried, but still ultimately didn't accomplish anything in buying Elena time) while Elena freaked out over her impending vampirism by herself, or he could have taken the time to give Elena a good day & some peace and mentally prepare her for what's going to happen to her. It was like, "do I look for a magical fix-it at the 11th hour, or do I try to make the best of the time I have?"
I feel that Stefan gets the short end of the stick because he refuses to make decisions for Elena. I remember in 2.14 and 2.15, when the brothers were collectively doing things without telling Elena. That's where the discrepancy started in their relationship, and that's when both of them learned that they need to be on the same page if this is ever going to work.
Elena wasn't totally faultless in those episodes and neither was Stefan. But THEY TALKED ABOUT IT and now they're at this point: Stefan doesn't have to like it, he can try to stop it, but ultimately, it's Elena's destiny and he won't try and take her freedom to choose away from her-because he's done it before and he's paid the price who knows how many times over.
I agree with you. After Stefan talked to Elena about fighting for her survival and saw that she finally figured out what that meant, stabbing herself in the gut just so she could "kill" Elijah, he could trust that she would do what was in the best interest not just of the people she loved but for herself as well. At that point, when Elena says, "we do things my way," Stefan is fully on board. Because he KNOWS that SHE WILL FIGHT. This is what made the difference in that episode and this is why whether he likes it or not, whether the thought of her dying (that shot of him gripping her arm as Elijah tells them the ritual is SOO amazing) scares the shiznit out of him or not, he will follow her lead--because he TRUSTS her. So, yeah, Stefan looks passive in this on the surface but really, think of it? How much strength does it take to watch someone you love deeply make choices that could kill them and because you love and respect them, you go with the plan? Answer: LOTS. Stefan is far from weak in this. He's not perfect--I don't think he'd
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EXACTLY! We will never know just how much it cost Stefan to agree to this plan, because he won't let it out in front of Elena. But that scene when Klaus arrives and he doesn't want to let her go?
We will never know just how much it cost Stefan to agree to this plan, because he won't let it out in front of Elena.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So true. We won't know. I think culturally we have misunderstood what strength is/means. Cause the more I think about it, the more I am certain Stefan and Elena are the strongest characters on the show.
Damon, sad to say, is the weakest because he uses his fear to act out. Because he can't trust. Because he doesn't know how to rely or depend on people. Because he doesn't know how to comfort. Because he doesn't know how to love. He knows how to act. How to react. Useful skills for sure in the short term; but not for long.
It's the way he looks at her. I COULD TENS OF THOUSANDS OF FICS ABOUT THE WAY TYLER LOOKS AT CAROLINE!
Actually I was back to finding Damon interesting this week rather than gross especially since I felt like the show was telling us that he was wrong and fucked up
I couldn't get over that this week-and I'm so done with Damon right now. I think the issue is that the show tells us that it was wrong, but it will be forgiven before the season is over AND I WANT CONSEQUENCES DAMN IT!
HE HELPED SAVE HER. WITH A LOADED STAKE GUN. MATT, WHEN DID YOU GET KIND OF INTERESTING AND HOT.
I chalk this up to Mattie thinking on his own again. There is nothing hotter than a man capable of independent, rational thought and rock-hard absI won't even try to quote all the Stefan/Elena stuff because I AGREE WITH ALL OF IT SO DARN HARD! The OTP just broke my ( ... )
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I KNOW. Like, honestly? Their steadfast refusal to allow any of his victims to respond in proportionate ways really, to me, is just flat-out not dealing with it as wrong, and is horrible to the victims themselves on so many levels being but ugh we won't talk about my personal issues getting all over this show.
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KATERINA EFFING PETROVA STATED IT FLAT OUT IN CANON, THOUGH HER STATEMENT COVERED ABOUT 1/16 OF ALL THE FACTORS THAT MAKE THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT ABSOLUTELY TRUE FOR DAMON --> ELENA.
THAT
IS NOT
LOVE
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I often feel I'm in the minority when I openly expect ANYTHING from Damon, in terms of decent behaviour. I love him, I do, but he's being creepy and domineering and just controlling over someone WHO IS TOTALLY DATING HIS LITTLE BROTHER!
*Takes a deep breath* Man! He's really pissed me off this week.
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I just . . . if he's going to change, let's start the change already. If he isn't, then let him go back to being the quasi-bad guy. It's not that I want him to turn into Stefan-I just want him to acknowledge that what he wants isn't the end all of everything. And if he's going to keep tossing around the L word in regards to Elena (that's 'love' people), then prove it in a way that doesn't make it all about what HE wants.
I'm sorry. This whole thing is about choices and one of my biggest things is men making decisions for women because they think they know better. It's a personal thing, but it is a thing. And when you have Stefan to compare to, Damon just looks worse.
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As for his actions that day, I don't see it as being passive. Yeah, he isn't out there trying to find a way to buy Elena a month, because it can't be done. Elena disappears or something happens, people are going to die. That's the one thing Elena is trying to avoid-I like to think that he respects, or at least accepts, this more than Damon. And yeah, I don't think he sees the down side of having Elena with him forever-I just love the fact that he never made that decision for her.
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Yeah, this. I mean, the way I see it, Stefan could have tried to delay the sacrifice for another time and spend fruitless hours trying to stop it, even though there was no guarantee he would have been able to actually do anything (like, Damon tried, but still ultimately didn't accomplish anything in buying Elena time) while Elena freaked out over her impending vampirism by herself, or he could have taken the time to give Elena a good day & some peace and mentally prepare her for what's going to happen to her. It was like, "do I look for a magical fix-it at the 11th hour, or do I try to make the best of the time I have?"
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Elena wasn't totally faultless in those episodes and neither was Stefan. But THEY TALKED ABOUT IT and now they're at this point: Stefan doesn't have to like it, he can try to stop it, but ultimately, it's Elena's destiny and he won't try and take her freedom to choose away from her-because he's done it before and he's paid the price who knows how many times over.
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SO BEAUTIFUL THAT I CRIED!
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Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So true. We won't know. I think culturally we have misunderstood what strength is/means. Cause the more I think about it, the more I am certain Stefan and Elena are the strongest characters on the show.
Damon, sad to say, is the weakest because he uses his fear to act out. Because he can't trust. Because he doesn't know how to rely or depend on people. Because he doesn't know how to comfort. Because he doesn't know how to love. He knows how to act. How to react. Useful skills for sure in the short term; but not for long.
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