TVD 2x15 Dinner Party

[goldy_dollar]

Ugh doing a work project right now that is killing my soul. So let me talk about The Vampire Diaries instead.

JFC this recap is so massive. I apologize ahead of time.

Comments

[butterfly]

-Bonnie and Jeremy’s chemistry was OFF THE CHARTS in this episode and I was pretty much going “omg just make out already” through the whole thing even though I don’t even know if I ship it yet? But then Bonnie said she needed to talk to Elena first and Jeremy looked so disappointed and AW YOU TWO KIDS.

And, hey, if you start shipping them, we would actually have a ship in common on this show!

I was kinda disappointed in the flashbacks. Except the Damon parts. But I was expecting them to be more epic. The opening was pretty good, but then Lexi was a sparkly magic vampire of choosing to only help Stefan with her magical sparkly conversation and it made me go a little 'meh' on her and feel less bad about Damon killing her in S1 (elaboration: with Stefan, here, she's all "you are the bad parts and I want to heal you" and with Damon, in S1, she's all "you are the bad parts and fuck off and die").

With Alaric, IDK. I wonder if he feels like Elena has the authority over whether or not to tell Jenna the truth (because Elena and Jenna have known each other longer and Elena has been keeping secrets longer). Otherwise, I find it kinda baffling, given that he insists on honesty in his friendship with Damon.

Okay, I promise that I won't edit any more!

[a_white_rain]

(elaboration: with Stefan, here, she's all "you are the bad parts and I want to heal you" and with Damon, in S1, she's all "you are the bad parts and fuck off and die").
Well, think of the timing. Stefan had been a vampire for only a few weeks or so and was much more susceptible to hearing what she had to say.

Damon has been a vampire for over a hundred years and still doesn't have it in him not to rape and abuse the women around him.

[butterfly]

And Lexi was happy to let Damon walk out the door back in 1864, while she coddled the guy who was doing the massive and messy killing. Lexi could have chosen to reach out to both brothers and she didn't.

Maybe she did it because she figured that Damon had more of a handle on things than Stefan did, I don't know. But it did sour me on her a bit.

[a_white_rain]

So? It's not her obligation to. Stefan was the one acting out and being very dangerous, on top of actually seeming to connect with her. Damon was shutting everyone else out.

[butterfly]

It's not her obligation, but helping Stefan out and then being pissed off that Damon doesn't know the things that she specifically taught Stefan is... just something that bothers me. I mean, it probably makes sense on a character level and a meta-universe level - she just liked Stefan more than she liked Damon, like everyone else that Damon has ever known (up until Alaric).

It just makes me like Lexi a bit less than I did before we saw this episode (because I was totally on board the 'Lexi love' train after "162 Candles" and now it's been downgraded to the 'Lexi like' caboose; still like her, but just not as much).

So, yes, certainly not obligated, but the way she picks and chooses just makes me like her less as a character. Personal reaction thing.

[a_white_rain]

Stefan was more open at this point in time. Damon was closing off. Both reactions make sense. Lexi had a better chance of getting through to Stefan. Possibly she liked Stefan more.

she just liked Stefan more than she liked Damon, like everyone else that Damon has ever known (up until Alaric).
I don't think we have any hard evidence for that tbh. Right now most people do like Stefan more. Probably has something to do with how Stefan generally treats people better. I mean, one of the firsts glimpses we get of Damon interacting with the other main characters is to get into an abusive relationship with Caroline.

What we know about his life before the current timeline is sketchy. It's hard to make and definite statements on this imo.

So, yes, certainly not obligated, but the way she picks and chooses just makes me like her less as a character. Personal reaction thing.
Which, okay, fine wouldn't really annoy me. We've all got our prefrences. But when you said you minded less that Damon killed her struck me as very very victim blamey. Especially considering how much of Damon's screen time is about inflicting various types of violence towards women. And how, right now, he's in another relationship where he abuses, uses, and rapes another women a la Caroline from season one.

[butterfly]

From what we've seen, his father treated him like crap in comparison to Stefan - that's something that lingers. Plus, the Katherine stuff. Those are the two big pre-vampire relationships that we know about for Damon and in both cases, it's someone preferring Stefan to him.

Which, okay, fine wouldn't really annoy me. We've all got our prefrences. But when you said you minded less that Damon killed her struck me as very very victim blamey.

I mind less because I like her a little less. Like how if someone killed John, I'd be thrilled because I hate John, and if someone killed Stefan, I would be sad, and if someone killed Elena, I would probably cry. How much I care about a character death entirely depends on how much I like the character.

Like how Angel going to hell mostly bothered me when I originally watched in S2 just for Buffy's sake but when I rewatch it, liking Angel more, I actually hurt for his sake, too. I don't blame him any more or less. I just like him more.

[a_white_rain]

I don't really remember that. Which episode was that in? Because I speed through the series and am actually fairly 'meh' about flashbacks in general.

But this is about HOW characters are killed. Buffy killed Angel to save the world and it broke her apart. Damon killed Lexi because he needed the council off his back. Don't you see the difference here?

That's not even getting into the meta reasons. Angel's death was epic and informed two different shows on different ways throughout the years. Lexi was treated as disposable goods (like many a female characters in the show tbh).

[butterfly]

I don't really remember that. Which episode was that in? Because I speed through the series and am actually fairly 'meh' about flashbacks in general.

The bit about his father favoring Stefan? Ah... it was probably 1x13, "Children of the Damned" but I think it's touched on in 1x20, "Blood Brothers", also. And Katherine preferring Stefan was mentioned in "The Return" (2x01) and "Memory Lane" (2x04). His father's favoritism is painfully clear, though.

But this is about HOW characters are killed.

I can see that, for you in this conversation, it was. And I apologize for giving you the impression that I was talking about that. For me, in saying that I feel differently about her death is entirely about the who of her as a character and not at all about the how of her death, which is a completely separate thing for me.

I brought up Angel because he's a character that I had a radical change of opinion on (in his case, from 'meh' to 'love'), not because I was attempting to compare the ways that they died. It was entirely about the shift in feelings for the character and how that affected how I feel about them dying/almost dying.

I guess I feel like I've been having an entirely different conversation than you have? I don't know.

[a_white_rain]

I'll rewatch them and see if I get that impression. I also... don't mind that Katherine liked Stefan more? Seriously it happens. People are naturally inclined to like some people better than others. And with Katherine, Damon wasn't nearly as respectful as Stefan was. See: her having to tell him once to back off after Stefan confessed his love to her. Part of the reason Stefan may have more friends is because he's friendly and more respectful of the people around him.

Though if his father favored Stefan more, that is a problem.

Ah, okay.

[butterfly]

Though if his father favored Stefan more, that is a problem.

Stefan actually plays peacemaker between Damon and their father, so it's pretty badly off.

I'll rewatch them and see if I get that impression. I also... don't mind that Katherine liked Stefan more? Seriously it happens. People are naturally inclined to like some people better than others. And with Katherine, Damon wasn't nearly as respectful as Stefan was. See: her having to tell him once to back off after Stefan confessed his love to her. Part of the reason Stefan may have more friends is because he's friendly and more respectful of the people around him.

Oh, I don't mind that Katherine preferred Stefan - it makes a lot of interesting story stuff exist and happen. It's just something that would emotionally impact Damon, especially because it would build on Stefan already being the preferred son.

This is one of the reasons that I enjoy Alaric preferring to hang out with Damon, though. It's just... refreshing for Damon not to come in second.

Ah, okay.

Looking back, I think that my initial descriptive wording was poor. I can see where you got the impression that you did.

[daisysusan]

I was creeping on the comments to this post (because I'm too lazy to make my own, k?), and I saw that you mentioned that maybe Alaric thinks that Elena ought to be the person to come clean to Jenna. I've been wondering about that, too - and if the reason Alaric gave John back the ring is so that he'd be able to talk to Damon, Stefan, and Elena about telling their secrets and so that he'd have time to tell Jenna on his own terms. (Cause, y'know, if he just went up to Jenna and was all "Isobel didn't die, she got turned into a vampire," she'd think he escaped from the nuthouse.)

[butterfly]

Cause, y'know, if he just went up to Jenna and was all "Isobel didn't die, she got turned into a vampire," she'd think he escaped from the nuthouse.

Oh, that imagined conversation. That's kinda hilarious.

But, yeah, it's not an easy conversation to have, if he actually wants to be genuinely honest. There's the risk that she'll just think he's crazy. And the only way to prove he isn't involves revealing other people's secrets.

[daisysusan]

Yeah, I amused myself sometimes by imagining the look on Jenna's face if Alaric just told her everything. She'd be like "Uh ... No."

I don't think there's anyone on the show who's just been told thus far. Pretty much everyone has worked it out for themselves. And I think that, when Jenna finds out, that's a conversation with which Elena definitely needs to be involved.

[butterfly]

Yeah, I amused myself sometimes by imagining the look on Jenna's face if Alaric just told her everything. She'd be like "Uh ... No."

Aw, I just realized that she would probably realize that her sister had been lying to her. Because Miranda was all up in the Council business while she was alive. That might be a painful realization for Jenna, more so than Alaric himself lying to her.

I don't think there's anyone on the show who's just been told thus far. Pretty much everyone has worked it out for themselves. And I think that, when Jenna finds out, that's a conversation with which Elena definitely needs to be involved.

I agree.

[daisysusan]

I just realized that she would probably realize that her sister had been lying to her. Because Miranda was all up in the Council business while she was alive.

That makes me wonder why they didn't tell Jenna about all the crazy vampire shenanigans in their will, since she was evidently named as Elena and Jeremy's legal guardian (because the Deceased Gilberts recognized that John is a crazy manipulative bastard and that their children should not be left in his care). But yes, poor Jenna. Almost everyone she knows has been lying to her. Elena, Jeremy, Stefan, Damon, Logan, Alaric, John, Miranda. EVERY EFFING PERSON IN MYSTIC FALLS BASICALLY. Dammit now I want to hug Jenna and tell her that they really do love her and trust her and that they're all just insensitive bastards. Except John. He's a first-class jerkface.