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Dec 22, 2010 21:51

In a world where everything is something, how can we ever know nothing?

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palmer_kun December 23 2010, 06:18:38 UTC
At least as far as English is concerned, one never simply "knows nothing".
There is always a limiter... "about". "I know nothing about the Urdu language". In common speech, the explicit limitation may be omitted, but inferred through context.

Either way, in this case, "nothing" is actually a something - specifically, the lack of a quality or absence of a "something".

Anyone claiming to know nothing, without context or limitation, is engaging in hyperbole. Such a statement is inherently self-contradictory in any case - one must know of something in order to have a conception of nothing.

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golden_purple18 December 23 2010, 06:22:41 UTC
Ah, but you assume a lot. What if I were speaking of the state of nothing, what if by 'know' I didn't mean 'has knowledge of', but an intimate connection with? I appreciate the semantics, and I agree, in common speech, nothing is an object. But the entire point is, if even nothing is something, how can we know, or experience, pure nothingness? Well, we can't, is the simple answer, but I like to contemplate it anyway.

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palmer_kun December 23 2010, 07:32:42 UTC
The state of nothing is known as a vacuum.
Experiencing it first hand is typically unpleasant :)

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golden_purple18 December 23 2010, 07:36:45 UTC
You just named it and spoke about it, therefore, it's not nothing.

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palmer_kun December 23 2010, 07:38:36 UTC
What exists, until you add to it, whereupon it ceases to exist?

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golden_purple18 December 23 2010, 07:39:24 UTC
Nothing. :)

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palmer_kun December 23 2010, 07:50:12 UTC
The traditional answer is "a hole" which is the same thing really.

The problem here is that you're using "something" as a positive descriptor, while "nothing" is a negative object.

"Nothing" is an absence or lack of "something". It cannot exist, in reality nor as a concept, except in relation to "something"

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golden_purple18 December 23 2010, 07:52:08 UTC
No, nothing isn't a negative. It's completely neutral. It simply can't exist in our universe, which is the entire point. You can go around and around in circles, but by experiencing or finding nothing, you're making it a thing, and therefore it's not nothing anymore.

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palmer_kun December 23 2010, 07:59:09 UTC
See, now you're getting into quantum mechanics and the observer effect

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golden_purple18 December 23 2010, 07:59:41 UTC
Yep!

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palmer_kun December 23 2010, 08:15:16 UTC
This is the point where I make some comment about possibly dead cats, but in reality leave the desk to stop Finn from scratching the doorframe again.

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golden_purple18 December 23 2010, 08:15:57 UTC
You can never know if the cat is dead. NEVER!

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palmer_kun December 23 2010, 08:28:47 UTC
*phone rings*
*you answer*
*raspy voice*
"Have you checked the kittens?"
*click*

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