so yesterday was Canada day. i've never really been a fan of this holiday, i think it's silly that people have pride for something they had nothing to do with.....my parents fucked here, thats about it
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Ty, you're awesome, always giving me something to think about, so here's what i've come up with, and as always there are more questions than answers:
One would be, is it possible to have nations without nationalism? I mean, is it possible to be a part of something, a group, community or state, and not feel pride in being a part of it? I say this for I find, in my mind at least, that there is this urge in people to belong while at the same time an urge to distinguish ourselves as different and a group such as the state provides an answer to this paradox. This not to say that nationalism is in anyways good, but rather suggests that it performs some sort of cultural/social function(order? economic? defense/aggression?).
I agree that nationalism divides, but is that the cause of our divisions or is that simply one form our division embodies? What I am getting at here is that divisions existed before nations, so by eliminating nationalism does not necessarily lead to unity, one could argue that by the mere creations of the words "I," and "you," creates more division than nationalism
Okay, that being said, nationalism needs to be checked, Hitler utilized it to the max and Bush is utilizing it now along with Bin Laden to the extent of his defending the Islamic state, just to name a few. The problem may not be nationalism but how political leaders use nationalist sentiment to gain support for personal motives. Now who is to be blamed(if anyone), those who take pride in being a part of a nation, or those who use that to their own individual advantage?
Anyways, these are just some of questions your post has sparked within me, and I definitely like your proposed holiday, it seems to make a little more sense than, say, Christmas, ha ha, I know how much you love Jesus' B-day, oh and I'll apologise now for my little ramble, take care
hey joe, thanx for all of your thoughts. i'm going to try to add a bit to this without flying to far off.....the context of how i meant what i said (see my response to Santina) is huge and could lead to a million sub-issues and this could be endless....
i like your idea that division and such things have existed long before our borders were thrown up. it's all throughout history, and it's all throughout the animal kingdom. maybe thats one of the tests of existence, to see if we can rise above all of our seemingly bad instincts like exclusion and violence. or maybe all of the shit is necessary and inevitable. it's defineately true that people have an inherent need to belong and i think that people cling to whatever is presented, like their nation.."i'm Canadian" or i'm Mexican" and this is where we need to check what it is thats being presented. people look and speak differently in different parts of the world because we all evolved to our surroundings and developed communication separately. but obviously we are all one, so i just wish we could fulfill our need to belong by being part of the world, and being proud because we insured that everybody everywhere is looked after.
like i'm sure u could have with your post, i could go on for a while, but i just checked the time and i have to get ready cause "we" (not the human race, but a few friends) are going to the Roots show tonight, lol, thanx again for your ideas...
"Tests of existence," nicely putbooksaregoodJuly 6 2006, 00:07:27 UTC
Dude, I totally agree, your insights are right on par with mine, which leads to the question of how do we(as humanity) move from such fragmentation of societies and cultures to a world identity(and like you said, if that is even possible)? But I'll leave that to a later date, we should get together soon and discuss, I love our discussions, and I much prefer face to face interaction, it allows us to ramble more freely, ha ha, anyways have a good show, though with the Roots, I doubt that needed to be said, take care
One would be, is it possible to have nations without nationalism? I mean, is it possible to be a part of something, a group, community or state, and not feel pride in being a part of it? I say this for I find, in my mind at least, that there is this urge in people to belong while at the same time an urge to distinguish ourselves as different and a group such as the state provides an answer to this paradox. This not to say that nationalism is in anyways good, but rather suggests that it performs some sort of cultural/social function(order? economic? defense/aggression?).
I agree that nationalism divides, but is that the cause of our divisions or is that simply one form our division embodies? What I am getting at here is that divisions existed before nations, so by eliminating nationalism does not necessarily lead to unity, one could argue that by the mere creations of the words "I," and "you," creates more division than nationalism
Okay, that being said, nationalism needs to be checked, Hitler utilized it to the max and Bush is utilizing it now along with Bin Laden to the extent of his defending the Islamic state, just to name a few. The problem may not be nationalism but how political leaders use nationalist sentiment to gain support for personal motives. Now who is to be blamed(if anyone), those who take pride in being a part of a nation, or those who use that to their own individual advantage?
Anyways, these are just some of questions your post has sparked within me, and I definitely like your proposed holiday, it seems to make a little more sense than, say, Christmas, ha ha, I know how much you love Jesus' B-day, oh and I'll apologise now for my little ramble, take care
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i like your idea that division and such things have existed long before our borders were thrown up. it's all throughout history, and it's all throughout the animal kingdom. maybe thats one of the tests of existence, to see if we can rise above all of our seemingly bad instincts like exclusion and violence. or maybe all of the shit is necessary and inevitable. it's defineately true that people have an inherent need to belong and i think that people cling to whatever is presented, like their nation.."i'm Canadian" or i'm Mexican" and this is where we need to check what it is thats being presented. people look and speak differently in different parts of the world because we all evolved to our surroundings and developed communication separately. but obviously we are all one, so i just wish we could fulfill our need to belong by being part of the world, and being proud because we insured that everybody everywhere is looked after.
like i'm sure u could have with your post, i could go on for a while, but i just checked the time and i have to get ready cause "we" (not the human race, but a few friends) are going to the Roots show tonight, lol, thanx again for your ideas...
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