Thoughts after travelling with Ross

[glenatron]

Last weekend was the non-clinic with Ross Jacobs - in the end it worked out as a mixture of a few private lessons and a sort of half-clinic, which worked out well. I certainly learned a lot from watching him work and the sessions we did with Cash, although I didn't get back in the saddle- Ross was of the opinion that if I want to be safe with the

Comments

[joycemocha]

As always, some good things and some areas of difference. Keep in mind, though, that I also think one needs to take into consideration a particular horse's work ethic and drive. Some horses have excellent work ethics and like to solve puzzles/physical challenges. Others want nothing more complex than their next meal.

--Not big on the use of "thought" but I know what he's getting at. Also not thrilled about the use of "life," "energy," & etc to describe that process. I'd probably just use mind, myself, but that's a usage that has meaning for me and may not work for others.

--Love his desensitization theories. Even finished horses benefit from being desensitized to new things.

--Agree with his leading theories. I've found that with certain big, bullish stock-type QHs used to throwing their weight around and bullying a handler (i.e., spoiled horse) that the use of a stud chain for one or two sessions sharpens them right up and gets to the point where then all you need to do is slap your leg with the rope and they pick right up. However, using a chain is a tool for a skilled handler. You have to set it up correctly so that it releases when you want it to, and you have to know not to nag--ask, use, release.

--Also love the "don't tell the horse to drop a thought if you have nothing to offer them." So very true, so very true!

--Nose below the knee does not always equal evasion, but the rider needs to be sufficiently skilled to know the difference. The same horse may have different modes. Mocha, for example, will stretch her nose low down below her knee to stretch out her shoulders and neck after a protracted spell in collected work. She can lope that way in balance. At the same time, she can also drag her nose to be naughty and look for nibbles of grass, hay wisps, etc. At all three gaits. It's something to watch her do it on the lunge line.

--Horses and patterns--some horses seek patterns more intensely than others. Rather than it being an unconscious activity for them, they are always looking for the pattern and anticipating it. I've seen this in Mocha and in a very well-trained, high level child's eventer-turned-schoolie. These horses tend to be the smarter, more athletic sort of performance horse for the most part. These horses also tend to be rather opinionated about changes in their routines (not just under saddle but stable routines) and, at the least, will give you annoyed looks and facial expressions to tell you that you've gone off pattern and you're doing it wrong. On the flip side, a horse like this who prefers the predictable routine will settle right down in a new or exciting environment when you begin the "grooming routine" or the "saddling routine" at a show.

[glenatron]

The differences were noticeable to me because Ross has a different background from most people I have learned with, coming more from his work with Harry Whitney, rather than the Dorrance/Hunt tradition that I have learned more from.

I think "thought" is probably the right word- he wants the horse's mind going exactly where he is directing it, with them thinking about going where he is asking them to go and not anything else. Life and energy are terms I use because I'm used to them. Seems like this is an area where most people have their own terminology.

With the nose-below-knee thing, it's probably easier to generalise it as an evasion and allow people who have got to a point where their horse is in balance when their head is down there to get the hang of that for themselves, they're probably going to be a fair way along the road at any rate. The goal Ross was talking about was really to be able to bring the head up from there until the poll is the highest point, which is pretty much a classical thing as I understand it.

I think Ross focusses on avoiding patterns because he doesn't want the horse to be looking to the pattern instead of looking to their human. This is a bit of a balance point for me because I absolutely agree that I would rather my horse looked to me rather than needing a pattern to get them feeling safe, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to have something handy just in case. What Ross is really focussing is more about making sure the horse keeps looking for input from the human rather than giving them an opportunity to go off with their own thoughts and tune out. When you're working with your horse in any context you want that to be their focus as much as it is yours so if you do too many repetitions of any particular thing you've got a good chance of teaching the horse to do those things that way in that order, rather than teaching them to listen to your cues and follow them. It's a really fine balance.

[joycemocha]

Well, I'm also aware that I'm probably not in the group that these clinics are aimed at (grin). I'm not certain I completely agree with regard to control over thought. But the degree to which you want to exert control over the horse's thoughts is also going to depend upon the equine temperament. There are circumstances where I want to give the horse the right to let me know that there's a disagreement in how to approach a situation. And, depending upon the horse's common sense and discipline, the degree to which I will acknowledge that input and give them a chance to express that concern will vary.

At risk of tl;dr here. Basically, I want the horse to have the confidence that they can tell me "Hey! I'm really worried about this." I can choose to agree with their concern and provide my input on how to deal with it or I can blow it off because I've IDed the problem and the horse really needs to get over it. There's been a few circumstances where I've encountered mountain lions, bear, or something else of concern that the horse IDs before me. If I've established with the horse that it can tell me about a concern and be respected, then in those really big issues the horse is going to look to me after the initial startle, rather than startle and then react. Then again, this is a legitimate situation for me because bear and mountain lion have been spotted near the barn, and there's lots of coyotes around. I WANT to know if Mocha gets worried so I can anticipate issues. Now getting over racing bikes on the road...that's different from something she's smelled that could be a predator.

I do agree with both you and Ross about patterns. There are useful patterns--the everyday routine of grooming and tacking, for example. I've literally calmed Mocha down in an exciting barn situation by beginning one of those regular routines. But there's also patterns under saddle (see, for example, Mocha anticipating my six loop pattern, most recent post). One reason Western performance riders never practice an entire pattern is to avoid anticipation. The same issues also arise in trail class. Judges want to see the horse looking to the rider for direction. However, in practical everyday working riding, the rider might want anticipation and more independent thought.

I also find the best way to get a horse to refocus is to work the transitions. If a horse really pisses me off because it's being a butthead then I will start throwing fast transitions at them. However, there's also a place for fast transitions with a cooperative, higher level horse because those horses start seeing the work as a fun game. But doing this work requires a deft hand and a lot of tact because it's a fine balance. A horse like Mocha gets to be a lot of fun at this level because a lot of my training focus becomes showing her the rhythm of a particular movement. Once she gets that rhythm, she enjoys playing that game. I'm counting on that keen interest to develop tempi changes in her before midwinter. We've fumbled through them but she's got a big mental block (due to past training that did need to happen, but now we have to convince her that the Exceptions Are Okay). However, even the first fumbling attempts are Way Kewl. I can just imagine what happens when both of us get to the point where we have the strength and timing to hold it and do it correctly.

[glenatron]

As Ross says, the people whose horses are going really well don't come along to clinics that often, so he doesn't get as much chance to work on the fancy stuff with people. It's one of the nice things with the clinic group I've ridden with on Steve's clinics is that people have made progress steadily over years so they are starting to get to a slightly higher level, which makes the clinics a lot more interesting.

I don't think that you would ever get to a place where you shut down a horse's self preservation or where you would want to. But as you say, the human needs the casting vote.