I was working with Cash this evening, helping him to figure out back-up under saddle. He's doing so great now- we're approaching the point where the main thing he will need is just miles on the clock
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Where are you getting that dressage-oriented trainers don't like a backup?
I have had (simultaeneously) a QH, a TB, and a WB in training with the same dressage trainer (a pupil of Zettl's who is a genius with the long lines and can have a horse perform an entire GP test in them) and they all did backing as part of every lesson. Most important was the "schaukel" which is a combination of back and forward.
I have ridden with a multitude dressage trainers and was a working student for a two time Olympian and I have never heard anything negative about backing up. Backing up is part of every dressage test from Second level on, and in schooling a few steps of backing are routinely used to help develop an upward transition (which obviously would not the technique of choice in an up transition if we all thought it would destroy the forward impulse).
I use it all the time and I have not encountered this prejudice against backing in either the dressage or jumping worlds. The only time it is seen as "bad" is if a horse backs in the piaffe or something as a forward evasion.
Glenatron, I have been quietly following your blog and think Cash is a real cutie. Good job with him!
I've encountered this attitude in low-level "expert" discussions, either online, in person, or in discussions of their interpretation of the training pyramid. It's pervasive enough at those levels to easily be someone's misinterpretation of what a clinician said, writ large.
I'm glad this attitude appears to be a lower level thing and not at all common, then. Happens.
Among people who have a lot of experience riding and training dressage and event horses here in the UK, not necessarily professionals, but people who have ridden and competed a lot for a long time, have worked full time with horses at some point and learned with illustrious and well regarded trainers. Certainly people whose experience I have learned a lot from and whose opinions in other respects I agree with a lot more. Bear in mind that we do have a long tradition of embarrassingly terrible equitation in the UK, although we are traditionally very good at riding horses fast at hedges, which is apparently what matters.
Certainly my dressage teacher wouldn't say that ( and I wouldn't ride with a dressage instructor who did ) but I have never seen a dressage horse that backs up the way I like a horse to back up, although I have only seen dressage ridden at a local show type level and at the WEG/Olympics. I'm sure there are people working their horses that way and using it in competition, but I have never been fortunate enough to see them.
How does your dressage teacher ask you to back up?
I ask because in your description of the components of a good backup, you say the head should be low. But the dressage objectives like the poll to be the highest point (or at least close if your stallion is cresty). So you will probably not see it in competition ever although this does not mean they can't do it at home.
I am just interested to hear how you amalgate the teachings as I too do several disciplines with the hunters, the dressage, and a little NH sprinkled in on each horse.
What are you thoughts on the back up here at 3:12? This lady a.) rides beautifully (at least IMO) and b.) got great comments for the back up in this test.
Heh, my dressage teacher only occasionally lets me have reins and certainly no stirrups yet. I've only been learning with him a few years. It will be a while before we work on back-up.
I am going to guess wild that there was a link in that text?
For where Cash is now the head should be low, because the alternative is going to be resistant and bracey around the poll and using all those muscles along the bottom of his neck. As he gets more advanced I would expect him to hold himself correctly as some dressage riders would see it. On the whole I prefer the back up you might see on a good cowhorse or reining horse to what you typically see on dressage horses but head position isn't so different in that, it's just that the feet are typically more free and the horse is pulling from behind a little more.
Steve talks about riding with one of his mentors and thinking he had scared the horse because it ran backwards so fast when he picked the rein up. Turned out it was just a horse that knew how to back-up. I like the idea that if my horse is capable of moving in a certain way then they would move in the same way if I asked them to.
That back-up looks fine- the horse drops their hindquarters and backs up pretty smoothly.
On the whole I like the way she rides- she's pretty quiet for a dressage rider. A lot of them seem to be all heels-heels-heels the whole time or doing that nod-nod-nod thing. She isn't too exaggerated with that, although she's clearly very wiggly-heels in the passage. You can certainly ride more subtly, though you don't see a lot of people doing it. I'd be pretty happy if I could ride a test a quarter as well as she does...
I have had (simultaeneously) a QH, a TB, and a WB in training with the same dressage trainer (a pupil of Zettl's who is a genius with the long lines and can have a horse perform an entire GP test in them) and they all did backing as part of every lesson. Most important was the "schaukel" which is a combination of back and forward.
I have ridden with a multitude dressage trainers and was a working student for a two time Olympian and I have never heard anything negative about backing up. Backing up is part of every dressage test from Second level on, and in schooling a few steps of backing are routinely used to help develop an upward transition (which obviously would not the technique of choice in an up transition if we all thought it would destroy the forward impulse).
I use it all the time and I have not encountered this prejudice against backing in either the dressage or jumping worlds. The only time it is seen as "bad" is if a horse backs in the piaffe or something as a forward evasion.
Glenatron, I have been quietly following your blog and think Cash is a real cutie.
Good job with him!
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I'm glad this attitude appears to be a lower level thing and not at all common, then. Happens.
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Certainly my dressage teacher wouldn't say that ( and I wouldn't ride with a dressage instructor who did ) but I have never seen a dressage horse that backs up the way I like a horse to back up, although I have only seen dressage ridden at a local show type level and at the WEG/Olympics. I'm sure there are people working their horses that way and using it in competition, but I have never been fortunate enough to see them.
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I ask because in your description of the components of a good backup, you say the head should be low. But the dressage objectives like the poll to be the highest point (or at least close if your stallion is cresty). So you will probably not see it in competition ever although this does not mean they can't do it at home.
I am just interested to hear how you amalgate the teachings as I too do several disciplines with the hunters, the dressage, and a little NH sprinkled in on each horse.
What are you thoughts on the back up here at 3:12?
This lady
a.) rides beautifully (at least IMO) and
b.) got great comments for the back up in this test.
Reply
I am going to guess wild that there was a link in that text?
For where Cash is now the head should be low, because the alternative is going to be resistant and bracey around the poll and using all those muscles along the bottom of his neck. As he gets more advanced I would expect him to hold himself correctly as some dressage riders would see it. On the whole I prefer the back up you might see on a good cowhorse or reining horse to what you typically see on dressage horses but head position isn't so different in that, it's just that the feet are typically more free and the horse is pulling from behind a little more.
Steve talks about riding with one of his mentors and thinking he had scared the horse because it ran backwards so fast when he picked the rein up. Turned out it was just a horse that knew how to back-up. I like the idea that if my horse is capable of moving in a certain way then they would move in the same way if I asked them to.
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Sorry about the link, I suppose I got a little carried away with the re-watching instead of the copy and pasting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUAMwuyAus0
I personally just love how she rides, but I am certainly open to other perspectives.
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On the whole I like the way she rides- she's pretty quiet for a dressage rider. A lot of them seem to be all heels-heels-heels the whole time or doing that nod-nod-nod thing. She isn't too exaggerated with that, although she's clearly very wiggly-heels in the passage. You can certainly ride more subtly, though you don't see a lot of people doing it. I'd be pretty happy if I could ride a test a quarter as well as she does...
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