On positive reinforcement and clicker training

[glenatron]

One of the most endless and repetative discussions that turns up from time to time among Natural Horsemanship types is the conversation about Positive Reinforcement, which is an entirely reward-based way of training animals used very effectively by a lot of animal trainers. I think it's a great way of training animals in general, but not a

Comments

[penella22]

Two thoughts;

I've used treats with Thea in some situations simply because it got her to chew, which caused to relax enough to look around and realize she wasn't dying. Also, that new experiences could be fun (not scary). I don't actually have a clicker thingy though; I just used apple treats and no click or bridging sound at all. It's probably not clicker training in fact. But I wanted to point out that when a horse is dissociative in that way, and will be more present for food, I'm okay with using that to build confidence.

I disagree with using food routinely in training though. Because I think ultimately if you're working with your horse right, then the way you both feel while doing the work is reward enough in itself. If the horse doesn't feel that way, then maybe that's feedback that you have something more to work on.

I DON'T use clicker training with Sage, or really even treats at all now because he's so food oriented anyways, and it can be hard to get his mind back on what we're doing. He just becomes a "food? food? for me? Now? how bout now?" monster and loses the whole train of thought and will start trying a million and one things in a frenzied way in an attempt to get the treat.

But I am using treats for Sage around the mounting block right now, to overcome his negative associations with it in the past.

Clicker training, btw, doesn't have to involve food at all. My understanding is that you could do any kind of positive reinforcer, from patting your horse's neck to itching their bugbites, to letting them gallop to letting them stop. ANYTHING that is a reward to them can be used, right?

To leap onto another tangent...what I dislike most about clicker training is how the whole thing makes me feel like a parent paying their child to get good grades. I'd rather my kid got good grades for the rewards inherently involved in good grades. I dislike any kind of training that feels like bribery, and much prefer training that says "here are your choices..."

I think clicker training CAN be like that. But in practice, most of the time, it's done with loads of treats and far less meaningful questions.

[glenatron]

The thing about non-food rewards is that you have to have a horse that wants them- most horses want food most of the time, whereas sometimes they are itchy in one place, sometimes another- Zorro's strongest non-food motivator is scratching his arse-cleavage ( to the point he will practically sit on me in the stable sometimes ) and I'm just not sure how I could use that from the saddle and I'm pretty sure I don't want to.

I don't mind using food rewards at all - it's how sleepsy_mouse has trained Small to be perfect at the mounting block - he goes and waits there and doesn't go until he's had a snackie - but the people who bother me are the ones who will only use positive reinforcement for training. They tend to get very religious about it, often very rude to anyone who doesn't do things their way ( for people who need to be positive there is a whole lot of negativity they carry around with them ) and generally irritate me. The post on The Dog Whisperer from this page is quite relevant.