We're still talking about David Bowie.
matociquala: Can I love him for admitting that he's only scared about an album if he thinks it's a good one?
truepenny: Yes. And that if he's not scared about it, he's doing something wrong. Totally. ::loff::
matociquala: Yes.
*loff*
See, this is the problem. I went and watched too many interviews, and he got all humanized, and now I feel odd staring at his crotch.
Lust is so much easier when you can objectify someone.
truepenny: ... and the collectivity of the practitioners of the Male Gaze, starting all the way back with the first Homo sapiens to draw a dirty picture on the wall of his cave, just got terrible cold shivers AND THEY DON'T KNOW WHY.
But I do.
matociquala: Hee. *g* It's so TRUE!
..not that that's going to stop me from staring at his crotch.
truepenny: Bear, David Bowie WANTS you to stare at his crotch.
matociquala: Well, it's how he makes his money, after all. And keeps your attention long enough to subvert you.
But I still feel dirty.
truepenny: You know, you've probably just made him very happy.
matociquala: Hee. Because I can intellectualize my crotch-staring?
(No, really. I respect you as a person, as an artist, as a man. As a father. ... ... ...do that thing with your tongue again?)
truepenny: Because he's made you feel dirty.
matociquala: I made me feel dirty.
Although I now understand men who say "No, really, I do respect..." *g*
truepenny: He has caused you to make yourself feel dirty. Not merely the genderfuck, but the identityfuck, has worked.
matociquala: Yes. The genderfuck cannot make me feel dirty. But he has exposed my own hypocrisy to me.
truepenny: That's a really complicated piece of subversion he's got going on there.
And you know, it's still got a beautiful, sexy, entertaining surface.
Which is the difference between "popular entertainment" and "art." If his genderfuck was not accompanied by catchy and popular songs, and wasn't saturated in popular culture--if, you know, it was all stark and demanding, with all the theory showing, no one would watch him, but everyone would write about him.
Our society has got fucked in the head somehow.
matociquala: Yes. This, exactly. It's the same thing he's doing with those two songs--"Jump They Say" and "Everyone Says Hi." You think it's a pop song. Bouncy shiny happy people dance tune. Cute little kid writing a letter tune.
But it's nooooooooot.
This is the same Shakespeare-trick I really, really want to learn.
truepenny: Tension--conflict even--between surface and depth.
It's hard.
And half the audience will miss it anyway.
matociquala: More than half. If you do it right, maybe even most.
But it doesn't matter.
Heck, that's part of the magic trick.
truepenny: The surface has to be worth people's while. See above re: the difference between "popular entertainment" and "art."
truepenny: Yes. And that if he's not scared about it, he's doing something wrong. Totally. ::loff::
matociquala: Yes.
*loff*
See, this is the problem. I went and watched too many interviews, and he got all humanized, and now I feel odd staring at his crotch.
Lust is so much easier when you can objectify someone.
truepenny: ... and the collectivity of the practitioners of the Male Gaze, starting all the way back with the first Homo sapiens to draw a dirty picture on the wall of his cave, just got terrible cold shivers AND THEY DON'T KNOW WHY.
But I do.
matociquala: Hee. *g* It's so TRUE!
..not that that's going to stop me from staring at his crotch.
truepenny: Bear, David Bowie WANTS you to stare at his crotch.
matociquala: Well, it's how he makes his money, after all. And keeps your attention long enough to subvert you.
But I still feel dirty.
truepenny: You know, you've probably just made him very happy.
matociquala: Hee. Because I can intellectualize my crotch-staring?
(No, really. I respect you as a person, as an artist, as a man. As a father. ... ... ...do that thing with your tongue again?)
truepenny: Because he's made you feel dirty.
matociquala: I made me feel dirty.
Although I now understand men who say "No, really, I do respect..." *g*
truepenny: He has caused you to make yourself feel dirty. Not merely the genderfuck, but the identityfuck, has worked.
matociquala: Yes. The genderfuck cannot make me feel dirty. But he has exposed my own hypocrisy to me.
truepenny: That's a really complicated piece of subversion he's got going on there.
And you know, it's still got a beautiful, sexy, entertaining surface.
Which is the difference between "popular entertainment" and "art." If his genderfuck was not accompanied by catchy and popular songs, and wasn't saturated in popular culture--if, you know, it was all stark and demanding, with all the theory showing, no one would watch him, but everyone would write about him.
Our society has got fucked in the head somehow.
matociquala: Yes. This, exactly. It's the same thing he's doing with those two songs--"Jump They Say" and "Everyone Says Hi." You think it's a pop song. Bouncy shiny happy people dance tune. Cute little kid writing a letter tune.
But it's nooooooooot.
This is the same Shakespeare-trick I really, really want to learn.
truepenny: Tension--conflict even--between surface and depth.
It's hard.
And half the audience will miss it anyway.
matociquala: More than half. If you do it right, maybe even most.
But it doesn't matter.
Heck, that's part of the magic trick.
truepenny: The surface has to be worth people's while. See above re: the difference between "popular entertainment" and "art."