Silly Christian
As I do not want to poke the troll and stir a good internet "debate" on the comments page, as I've said what I felt needed to be said and will leave it at that for them, I would like to address my further thoughts here.
It all started yesterday when I read this article: http://www.religionnews.com/2013/02/25/fox-apologizes-for-comments-on-wiccans-at-university-of-missouri/ and then read the few comments that were posted.
There was one comment that I found highly offensive and rather ignorant, "If they don’t worship Jesus Christ, they are Pagan and non-essential to living and the eternal."
To which I replied as follows:
Seriously? It’s wonderful that you believe that Jesus Christ is a god, or at least the son of a god. I’m assuming this based on your comment. However, “non-essential to living and the eternal”? Are you claiming that anyone who doesn’t worship Jesus Christ is non-essential? Please define “the eternal”.
I do not worship Jesus Christ. I once did. I no longer do. I am an earth loving, nature worshiping pagan. I am essential to the community I serve and work in. I am essential to the lives of my loved ones. I am essential to the children I help raise. I am essential to the protection of the environment to the best of my ability. I am essential in caring for all of gods creatures.
Remind yourself of this fact when you find yourself in a medical emergency, that nurse caring for you? That ambulance driver? That 9-1-1 operator? That citizen who placed the call? Any and all of them could be a pagan. Are they still non-essential in your eyes? I helped save a child from bleeding to death. I do not think his parents viewed me as non-essential. In fact, my spiritual practices weren’t even discussed, as it did not matter. What matter was my character and my quick reaction to the situation. What matter was that I cared for the safety of that child.
I was blown away that one could possible believe that those who do not believe in their god (or son of god, depending on how one views Jesus Christ in a religious sense) are non-essential.
Today I was greeted with this wonderful response from the original poster (all of which can be seen if you follow the link above):
What matters is the hereafter. The Earth is cursed from sin and is no longer a great place to live. Jesus Christ offers a chance to see the new Heaven and the new Earth that He meant for us to experience before evil ruined it. What I meant by non-essential was the fact that what is done now against God, and whomever lives against God, will burn in Hell. You can be as good as you want but your belief in the Son of God is the only Essential thing that you need. Heaven is open to believers, all others who don’t believe are therefore, non-essential to Eternity. Hell is there home. And if you don’t teach your children about Jesus and give them a chance to believe, they will go to Hell as well. Sorry to say but true. After the age of recognition, they are responsible for their own beliefs. No one can accept Jesus for them but themselves.
What I did not reply there with, but what I will say here in response is this:
The hereafter for me is different for others. What matters in the present is that I live an honest and good life and leave this earth a better place for those who come after me.
I do not believe in sin. Sin has such a broad definition for religious individuals that to say one has committed a sin, or is sinful, is not very specific at all. For some simply the thought of sexual acts with another is a sin. For others it's a an alcoholic drink. It can be defined as a passionate kiss with one you are not married to the severest of crimes. Sin is a tool of organized religion. I think here sin should be replaced with a lack of morals.
If this world is no longer a great place to live it is so because we have allowed it to become such and we should do the best we can with the tools we have to correct that. I use the word "we" very loosely here. As this is something that has happened slowly overtime.
And now, back to Jesus Christ, who, I'll admit, was a great man, assuming he actually existed as one man, there are many lines of thought as to how the person of Jesus Christ that we know today came into being (and I do not mean necessarily by immaculate conception). This poster is quoted as saying "Jesus Christ offers a chance to see the new Heaven and the new Earth that He meant for us to experience before evil ruined it." That, is a loaded statement that I'm certain I could write books on. If evil ruined this supposedly wonderful world, why did Jesus Christ allow it to happen if his intention was for us to see heaven and earth has he wanted us to?
She is quoted as saying "You can be as good as you want but your belief in the Son of God is the only Essential thing you need. Heaven is open to believers, all others who don't believe are therefore, non-essential to Eternity. Hell is there home." (We'll ignore the miss-spelled words and poor punctuation.)
And now we move on into the realm of a place called "Hell". See, I don't believe in "Hell". Even growing up as a Christian I did not believe in "Hell". This idea that if I live a good honest life and I treat my fellow man equally and I show kindness and good deeds, is still not enough to spend eternity with "the Eternal Father" simply because I did not believe in his supposed son that came to earth to teach us how to live a a good honest life, is absurd to me. The fact that this supposed heavenly parent would condemn me to a place defined as being filled with fire and brimstone, not because I was a bad person but because I did not declare Jesus Christ as my savior, sounds like a parent that is not psychologically balanced.
Oh, and our poster goes even further to condemn my children who will also go to hell because I did not teach them about Jesus Christ. So, to be clear, all of those people who have never heard of Jesus Christ, at least according to this poster, will go to hell for that simple fact. And her reaction to that belief? "Sorry to say but true." I would love to know how she knows this to be true, and by some other means than the Bible, of which there are multiple versions and millions of interpretations.
I believe everyone is free to worship and believe as it feels right to them. It is not my place to judge anyone for their spiritual beliefs and practices (assuming they are not harming themselves or others, be it physically or mentally). It is honorable that she believe that Jesus Christ will save her from this evil world she must live in until she dies. Yes, I think it is ass backwards that many of her ilk (I'm assuming here) believe that as long as they put their trust/faith in Jesus Christ and pray everything will be ok.
We are not helpless witless beings, blindly walking this earth. We should not behave as though we are. Regardless of what religious beliefs we have, it is not our place to condemn others simply because their beliefs are different from our own. Growing up as a Christian I was raised to respect the fact that others believed differently than us. Although I was raised to believe that the church I belonged to was the one true church on earth, we were also taught to not flaunt it.
Only those who have reached their expiration date on this earth knows what comes after. It may be nothing. It may be everything. And then again, it may just be a similar repeat to what is now. We will not know until we too hit our expiration date.
I will give you this. She may have told me that I will go to hell when I die, as far as her beliefs are concerned, but she did not call me evil. She did not call me a worshiper of the devil (mind you, I don't believe in the devil either). In her eyes, it seems to me, that it does not matter what I do on this earth, I am condemned to hell simply because I do not believe in her god, Jesus Christ. She is free to believe that. I am also free to believe that she is ignorant in her thinking and it saddens me to think that there are people out there that believe that small innocent children can go to a place full of fire and brimstone simply for not knowing this person Jesus Christ. Would you condemn Buddha to such a place? Gandhi? The Dalai Lama (any of them)?
From a Christian standpoint, what about the Catholic Priests that molest children? They believe in Jesus Christ. What about those who stand outside funerals, memorial services, abortion clinics and preach hate? They claim to believe in Jesus Christ.
I can at least say that I believe Latter-Day Saints got something right in that they believe everyone, with the exception of the truly wicked and evil, will live in an afterlife that is better than what we have on this earth today. If the Christians are right about the afterlife, I hope it's the LDS that got it truly right. Because what parent doesn't want their children to have a life just as good if not better than their own? What kind of parent would want to condemn their child to such torment for all eternity despite the fact that they lived a good life full of good deeds and honest works? It is possible to live a Christ like life without believing in Jesus Christ. His teachings were simple.
The Christian religion was flipped on its head when greedy men got involved and realized that organized religion is a great way to control the masses. It is a fantastic tool to instill fear in children and the lower class. For centuries the bible was read to the congregations, only clergy had access to the bible. Think about that. Thousands upon thousands of people were blindly following a religion based on what a man standing at the head of congregation told them.
There are people that /need/ organized religion in order to fully function in this life. I can respect that. I am not one of them.
Bottom line. Worship how/who you want. Do not tell me that I am condemned to hell. Keep that thought to yourself. Tell me you are concerned for my soul. But you will never convince me if your tactic is to attempt to instill fear into my heart.
It all started yesterday when I read this article: http://www.religionnews.com/2013/02/25/fox-apologizes-for-comments-on-wiccans-at-university-of-missouri/ and then read the few comments that were posted.
There was one comment that I found highly offensive and rather ignorant, "If they don’t worship Jesus Christ, they are Pagan and non-essential to living and the eternal."
To which I replied as follows:
Seriously? It’s wonderful that you believe that Jesus Christ is a god, or at least the son of a god. I’m assuming this based on your comment. However, “non-essential to living and the eternal”? Are you claiming that anyone who doesn’t worship Jesus Christ is non-essential? Please define “the eternal”.
I do not worship Jesus Christ. I once did. I no longer do. I am an earth loving, nature worshiping pagan. I am essential to the community I serve and work in. I am essential to the lives of my loved ones. I am essential to the children I help raise. I am essential to the protection of the environment to the best of my ability. I am essential in caring for all of gods creatures.
Remind yourself of this fact when you find yourself in a medical emergency, that nurse caring for you? That ambulance driver? That 9-1-1 operator? That citizen who placed the call? Any and all of them could be a pagan. Are they still non-essential in your eyes? I helped save a child from bleeding to death. I do not think his parents viewed me as non-essential. In fact, my spiritual practices weren’t even discussed, as it did not matter. What matter was my character and my quick reaction to the situation. What matter was that I cared for the safety of that child.
I was blown away that one could possible believe that those who do not believe in their god (or son of god, depending on how one views Jesus Christ in a religious sense) are non-essential.
Today I was greeted with this wonderful response from the original poster (all of which can be seen if you follow the link above):
What matters is the hereafter. The Earth is cursed from sin and is no longer a great place to live. Jesus Christ offers a chance to see the new Heaven and the new Earth that He meant for us to experience before evil ruined it. What I meant by non-essential was the fact that what is done now against God, and whomever lives against God, will burn in Hell. You can be as good as you want but your belief in the Son of God is the only Essential thing that you need. Heaven is open to believers, all others who don’t believe are therefore, non-essential to Eternity. Hell is there home. And if you don’t teach your children about Jesus and give them a chance to believe, they will go to Hell as well. Sorry to say but true. After the age of recognition, they are responsible for their own beliefs. No one can accept Jesus for them but themselves.
What I did not reply there with, but what I will say here in response is this:
The hereafter for me is different for others. What matters in the present is that I live an honest and good life and leave this earth a better place for those who come after me.
I do not believe in sin. Sin has such a broad definition for religious individuals that to say one has committed a sin, or is sinful, is not very specific at all. For some simply the thought of sexual acts with another is a sin. For others it's a an alcoholic drink. It can be defined as a passionate kiss with one you are not married to the severest of crimes. Sin is a tool of organized religion. I think here sin should be replaced with a lack of morals.
If this world is no longer a great place to live it is so because we have allowed it to become such and we should do the best we can with the tools we have to correct that. I use the word "we" very loosely here. As this is something that has happened slowly overtime.
And now, back to Jesus Christ, who, I'll admit, was a great man, assuming he actually existed as one man, there are many lines of thought as to how the person of Jesus Christ that we know today came into being (and I do not mean necessarily by immaculate conception). This poster is quoted as saying "Jesus Christ offers a chance to see the new Heaven and the new Earth that He meant for us to experience before evil ruined it." That, is a loaded statement that I'm certain I could write books on. If evil ruined this supposedly wonderful world, why did Jesus Christ allow it to happen if his intention was for us to see heaven and earth has he wanted us to?
She is quoted as saying "You can be as good as you want but your belief in the Son of God is the only Essential thing you need. Heaven is open to believers, all others who don't believe are therefore, non-essential to Eternity. Hell is there home." (We'll ignore the miss-spelled words and poor punctuation.)
And now we move on into the realm of a place called "Hell". See, I don't believe in "Hell". Even growing up as a Christian I did not believe in "Hell". This idea that if I live a good honest life and I treat my fellow man equally and I show kindness and good deeds, is still not enough to spend eternity with "the Eternal Father" simply because I did not believe in his supposed son that came to earth to teach us how to live a a good honest life, is absurd to me. The fact that this supposed heavenly parent would condemn me to a place defined as being filled with fire and brimstone, not because I was a bad person but because I did not declare Jesus Christ as my savior, sounds like a parent that is not psychologically balanced.
Oh, and our poster goes even further to condemn my children who will also go to hell because I did not teach them about Jesus Christ. So, to be clear, all of those people who have never heard of Jesus Christ, at least according to this poster, will go to hell for that simple fact. And her reaction to that belief? "Sorry to say but true." I would love to know how she knows this to be true, and by some other means than the Bible, of which there are multiple versions and millions of interpretations.
I believe everyone is free to worship and believe as it feels right to them. It is not my place to judge anyone for their spiritual beliefs and practices (assuming they are not harming themselves or others, be it physically or mentally). It is honorable that she believe that Jesus Christ will save her from this evil world she must live in until she dies. Yes, I think it is ass backwards that many of her ilk (I'm assuming here) believe that as long as they put their trust/faith in Jesus Christ and pray everything will be ok.
We are not helpless witless beings, blindly walking this earth. We should not behave as though we are. Regardless of what religious beliefs we have, it is not our place to condemn others simply because their beliefs are different from our own. Growing up as a Christian I was raised to respect the fact that others believed differently than us. Although I was raised to believe that the church I belonged to was the one true church on earth, we were also taught to not flaunt it.
Only those who have reached their expiration date on this earth knows what comes after. It may be nothing. It may be everything. And then again, it may just be a similar repeat to what is now. We will not know until we too hit our expiration date.
I will give you this. She may have told me that I will go to hell when I die, as far as her beliefs are concerned, but she did not call me evil. She did not call me a worshiper of the devil (mind you, I don't believe in the devil either). In her eyes, it seems to me, that it does not matter what I do on this earth, I am condemned to hell simply because I do not believe in her god, Jesus Christ. She is free to believe that. I am also free to believe that she is ignorant in her thinking and it saddens me to think that there are people out there that believe that small innocent children can go to a place full of fire and brimstone simply for not knowing this person Jesus Christ. Would you condemn Buddha to such a place? Gandhi? The Dalai Lama (any of them)?
From a Christian standpoint, what about the Catholic Priests that molest children? They believe in Jesus Christ. What about those who stand outside funerals, memorial services, abortion clinics and preach hate? They claim to believe in Jesus Christ.
I can at least say that I believe Latter-Day Saints got something right in that they believe everyone, with the exception of the truly wicked and evil, will live in an afterlife that is better than what we have on this earth today. If the Christians are right about the afterlife, I hope it's the LDS that got it truly right. Because what parent doesn't want their children to have a life just as good if not better than their own? What kind of parent would want to condemn their child to such torment for all eternity despite the fact that they lived a good life full of good deeds and honest works? It is possible to live a Christ like life without believing in Jesus Christ. His teachings were simple.
The Christian religion was flipped on its head when greedy men got involved and realized that organized religion is a great way to control the masses. It is a fantastic tool to instill fear in children and the lower class. For centuries the bible was read to the congregations, only clergy had access to the bible. Think about that. Thousands upon thousands of people were blindly following a religion based on what a man standing at the head of congregation told them.
There are people that /need/ organized religion in order to fully function in this life. I can respect that. I am not one of them.
Bottom line. Worship how/who you want. Do not tell me that I am condemned to hell. Keep that thought to yourself. Tell me you are concerned for my soul. But you will never convince me if your tactic is to attempt to instill fear into my heart.