One Step Forward, Two Steps Back
Wow, there's been a virtual explosion of "WTH" after "Citizen Fang." Strangely, I find myself in the apparent minority in that I'm not feeling one iota of kerfuffle. Nope, I really liked the episode and I CANNOT wait to see what happens next. It reinforced once again why this show has taken over the top spot for me by making me think about it
( Read more... )
LOL! Yes, I sometimes have to wonder just on what level Dean could ever think that was RIGHT. And while I don't quite see Dean the same way you do, that's some pretty controlling BS right there. What I waffle over (I'm always waffling-I LOVE YOU SHOW) is whether Dean is actually even aware of just how demeaning and controlling and wrong it really is because, let's face it, such behavior is pretty standard if you are following the Winchester Way. I'm not a John Winchester hater or anything but he was pretty obsessively crazy cakes and he really messed these boys up but good with regard to building healthy relationships.
As for Benny. I guess I didn't find his behavior as tenuous or suspicious as you. Even Martin says that he watched him for quite some time before the first murder ever happened. And, sure, Benny could have reached that point where he finally caved but it could also very well be that Desmond rolled into town just as Benny said he did. Perhaps I am naive but I do feel that his intentions are on the up and up and I did feel that although he is struggling, he was staying true to the plan. So far his story tracks, even down to the girl he gave up vamping for and left then left behind. I also feel that having Elizabeth know who and what he really is was the last thing he ever wanted to happen so suddenly giving in to his inner vamp after making that effort to reconnect with "home" just doesn't track with me. I know that all we have is Benny's word (and Ruby had me going for awhile, too) but I'm buying it for the moment. Dean's explanation of the Benny/Desmond thing is as convincing to me as Sam's explanation of Amy/mortician/sick kid thing.
Dean's a total hypocrite, expecting Sam to just let a vampire go based on trust alone what with his actions and attitude in the past. But Sam's not hypocrite free, either. His actions in the past would lead you to suspect that he would come closer to understanding where Dean is coming from than anyone. Just as Amy saved Sam's life, Benny had Dean's back in purgatory. Sure, he gave Dean time to check into it but he didn't trust Dean any more than Dean trusted him with regard to Amy Pond and, as much as my heart aches for him SO BAD in this episode, his hunter motives are not pure. For a multitude of reasons that I could spend a great amount of time pondering, Sam wants Benny to go darkside. He wants to kill him.
Well, good grief. I'm blabbering enough to need two posts.
Reply
When I'm trying to look at it objectively, and that is SOOOO HARD with this show, Amy was killing and she was killing people who were not a direct threat to her or her son. It was not self-defense and she did it to get something she needed for her son. Who's to say that she wouldn't resort to killing again the next time her son became sick? Though it pains me and Dean handled it in the usual lying Winchester way, I am not convinced it was the wrong thing to do.
With Benny, Martin was a direct threat to his only family, Elizabeth. He had a knife to her throat. Martin was unhinged and, during that scene I actually thought Martin was going to kill her and that that was going to unleash the Benny vamp. (I also imagined a scenario where he then went after Sam in an act of vengeance because he knows Sam is the one to send Martin but, I guess, now that's a story for fanfic.) Benny was being threatened and goaded by Martin. Sure he could have come up with another way but Benny was in that fight or flight moment. He killed in defense of himself and his family first and then he took what he needed. His reasons for killing here were not driven by his inner monster.
I get that he was a mess and he couldn't handle it, and neither could Sam
YES!!!
Thanks so much for the fun discussion!
Reply
It scanned as being much darker to me. I think he went after her not in spite of Sam's wishes, but because Amy was good for Sam. If Amy chose Sam over her family, then Sam can trust her and has a safety net outside of Dean. Family being Always Most Important is the foundational thing to Dean, because then he doesn't have to examine his own life too closely - he can think that he doesn't have a choice in the awful stuff he's been through, and that there are actual standards for how he should be behaving toward Sam.
Moreover, If Amy can be okay, and can mostly manage her issues, then Sam will start to get ideas. If Sam says Amy is okay, she must be awful, because Sam Is Always Wrong. I definitely don't think he worked that through on a conscious level, but it's tough to discount, particularly now that he's pulling the kind of crap he did in this episode. I see why he rationalizes Benny being different, I just don't find it particularly convincing.
Thank you! I'm really enjoying your thoughts.
Reply
It scanned as being much darker to me. I think he went after her not in spite of Sam's wishes, but because Amy was good for Sam
Wow, that is a pretty dark take. They are co-dependent as hell, especially Dean, but I just don't see Dean in quite the same way though, you know, I do find your take fascinating and I love reading how you see him. For all his faults and his controlling behavior, he is just not quite that person for me. IDK. I genuinely like Dean and I don't really know if I could continue to do so if I saw him the way you see him.
Reply
I mean, I don't think he does think it's right. If anything, the appeal of GETTING EVEN with Sam for ABANDONING him was part of the motivation on at least a subconscious level.
whether Dean is actually even aware of just how demeaning and controlling and wrong it really is because, let's face it, such behavior is pretty standard if you are following the Winchester Way. I'm not a John Winchester hater or anything but he was pretty obsessively crazy cakes and he really messed these boys up but good with regard to building healthy relationships.
Yeah, I think that's a really important point. I think my frustration - even though it's a development that I know, rationally, makes sense - is that while the seeds of this behavior were there when John was around, they weren't this bad, you know? His pressure on Sam to keep away from his Stanford friends was definitely a warning sign, but it wasn't THIS. And this is happening - yes, after the trauma of the last few years, but also, after he's had a ton of time to grow up, develop a sense of purpose, and has a ton of support from Cas and Sam. His behavior is determined by his reasons to be a jerk, not his opportunities to be the guy he could be. And that, as human and believable as it is, is hard for me to get past.
I like John as a character, actually? And on some extremely unflattering level I kind of understand where a lot of his behavior came from. But yeah, it's...rarely overstated, how irresponsible and abusive he was toward his own kids.
Even Martin says that he watched him for quite some time before the first murder ever happened.
Well, a week. Which I like, as a viewer, because it's exactly enough time that we could draw whatever conclusions we want from it.
Reply
Leave a comment