Let us have a look at thateternallegendukJuly 22 2006, 16:53:28 UTC
"Repulsive video games depicting the bloody slaughter of babies and animals, urination and defecation, rape, decapitation, dismemberment and disembowlment."
Bloody slaughter of babies: The closest I can think of here would be Doom 3, which had warped cherubim monsters that made you feel genuinely uneasy about killing. At a push, Silent Hill has had some almost-children enemies.
Bloody slaughter of animals: Yep. The obvious one here is Carmageddon, which even had a zoo in one of its incarnations. Otherwise, many games feature animals as enemies though, in their defence, they are trying to kill you. Not-quite-so-bloody slaughter of animals is just, well, hunting. That's a sport.
Urination: One game: Postal. Some others (I'm looking at you, FPSes) have bathrooms that you can "use" but are little more than a sound effect.
Defecation: Got me. I can't think of one that features that sort of thing in an any way realistic manner. Closest approximation off the top of my head: Ovipositioning a la Yoshi.
Rape: Rape Rape Revolution and that one ancient 8-bitter that some people like to bring up. Newsflash: GTA:SA's hidden sex scenes were consensual.
Decapitation and dismemberment: Definitely yes. Pretty much any game with a gun will have flying limbs and optional buckets o' gore. One thing, though: So what? Why is decapitating someone in a game morally worse than slashing them with a sword and having them fall to the ground and disappear?
Disembowelment: Kind of. Not many games have modelled organs for the player to remove. Generic gibs, yes. You're more likely to see organs used as scenery or in cutscenes, which means you the player aren't really disemboweling anyone.
His overall statement: Rubbish. He is using the likes of Postal to tar the likes of, well, everything else. How long before gamism becomes a hate crime?
Re: Let us have a look at thatianc14July 22 2006, 17:23:54 UTC
Bloody slaughter of babies: The closest I can think of here would be Doom 3, which had warped cherubim monsters that made you feel genuinely uneasy about killing. At a push, Silent Hill has had some almost-children enemies. Prey also has ghostly children you kill. But that is a bit of push, since they are already dead....
Re: Let us have a look at thatterminator44July 22 2006, 18:56:06 UTC
I believe Bioshock will allow you to kill children (who are gatherers of a substance called "Adam"). I don't believe it will be a required part of gameplay though, and it won't be an easy thing to do, since they'll be guarded by mech suits.
Re: Let us have a look at thatgamepoliticsJuly 22 2006, 19:10:33 UTC
well in that case, if you play WoW, the Horde could - and does - raid the Alliance city of Stormwind. There are some NPC kids in the city. I guess they could be killed out of sheer bloody-mindedness, but it's not part of the game by any stretch of the imagination.
Also, in WoW you are penalized for killing civilian NPC's...
Hatch makes it sound like there are games where the object is to kill kids.
Re: Let us have a look at thatxlorep_darkhelmJuly 23 2006, 04:45:45 UTC
Even during the "orphan week" in WoW, if you have the orphan, and lead it around, you will find that unlike every other non-combat pet in the game, you can't kill the orphans (like by standing on a fire and burning it to death).
Fear everything!kharne83July 22 2006, 18:32:34 UTC
Oh god, he's jsut flailing for stuff to acuse people of isn't he? Anyway, to fill in a few things.
Bloody slaughter of babies: Fallout had kids in at least one of the towns (shady sands), and the means to kill them. *But* it's not all that bloody (given Fallout's age and graphics) there's no reason for the player to do it, and if I remember properly the games really shafts you if you do kill one.
Defecation: Black and white, your animal does it. Thre was also the entire poo section of Bad Fur Day (the bull fight comes to mind). Finally there was also the poop mines in Space Station Scilicon Valley, but that's just way too silly to count.
Urination: Bad Fur Day again, the Rock Solid section comes to mind, but there was a couple other parts.
Overall though I have to agree, there's no point in this, it sounds like he's just throwing random crap out there to see what sticks.
Re: Fear everything!gamepoliticsJuly 22 2006, 19:12:26 UTC
I fell asleep on Black & White before I had a chance to poop. I suppose.
Conker's - was it pooping, the act of, or was the stuff just there? Also, Conker's was comedic. How many movies have poop, vomit and fart gags? Quite a few...
Re: Fear everything!kharne83July 22 2006, 20:27:49 UTC
Conker's - was it pooping, the act of, or was the stuff just there?
Both, there was plenty of it just there, and then there was the bull fight which well... let's just say it involved cows and prune juice. Silly of cource, but it's there so I figure it's worth a mention.
Is he worried about the act of, or the result of? Where does the dsistinction between control and command lie? Suppose someone defecates on a decapitated baby deer in a rendered cutscene, triggered by you walking up to the creature and pressing fire followed by the parp button. The cutscene alone could feature in a movie and be valid speech, yet how different is it to be commanded by a gamer? For a more realistic comparison, compare any war movie ever to any FPS ever, or any gangster movie to any GTA.
There's a point with the movies. CG effects feature heavily in movies which are valid high-class speech as a medium. I've seen people get cut in half on the big screen, and I'm pretty certain computers were used to achieve that effect. Scanners has an infamous headsplodey scene which was created with real goo, and that film is protected speech. GTA lets you aim at someone's head and remove it in a small splat of pixels, and that is not protected speech. So CG gore in a movie controlled by the director = OK, but CG gore in a game controlled by the player = bad. Right.
Re: Fear everything!terminator44July 22 2006, 22:04:00 UTC
Let me put it this way: You fought a boss monster made entirely of poop. The act of pooping might have been in the game once or twice, but there's no denying that there was a lot of the stuff in the game (mostly in the first half).
Re: Let us have a look at thatthesisiodJuly 22 2006, 20:08:06 UTC
Defecation: Wasn't these a scene in one of the Leisure Suit Larrys? Oh, god, don't let them seem any of the LSLs! They'll be all over them like zombies on a lousy shot gamer!
Disembowlment: I'm guessing he's talking about Mortal Combat and its descendants. There's also a disemboweled soldier at the end of Purple Heart Lane on Brothers In Arms.
Re: Let us have a look at thatlost_watcherJuly 22 2006, 20:31:46 UTC
Bloody slaughter of babies: The closest I can think of here would be Doom 3, which had warped cherubim monsters that made you feel genuinely uneasy about killing. At a push, Silent Hill has had some almost-children enemies. Silent Hill had some monsters planned but were removed.
Bloody slaughter of animals: Yep. The obvious one here is Carmageddon, which even had a zoo in one of its incarnations. Otherwise, many games feature animals as enemies though, in their defence, they are trying to kill you. Not-quite-so-bloody slaughter of animals is just, well, hunting. That's a sport. Hunting games... WoW you can kill animals but you skin em and make use of what you find.
Urination: One game: Postal. Some others (I'm looking at you, FPSes) have bathrooms that you can "use" but are little more than a sound effect. Duke 3D had bathroom which you can make use of... but its just noise and no effects
Defecation: Got me. I can't think of one that features that sort of thing in an any way realistic manner. Closest approximation off the top of my head: Ovipositioning a la Yoshi. Black and White... you can throw poo that your creature does... but thats it it. Now in WoW if you go into pretty much any area where the ogres are you can see poo piles... funny looking swirly piles of poo... made to be comedic.
Rape: Rape Rape Revolution and that one ancient 8-bitter that some people like to bring up. Newsflash: GTA:SA's hidden sex scenes were consensual. Umm... what games have had this? And what has he been watching?
Decapitation and dismemberment: Definitely yes. Pretty much any game with a gun will have flying limbs and optional buckets o' gore. One thing, though: So what? Why is decapitating someone in a game morally worse than slashing them with a sword and having them fall to the ground and disappear? He needs to watch some 80s horror movies or hostel... cause if he thinks games are bad wait till he see Hostel/Saw/Saw II.
Disembowelment: Kind of. Not many games have modelled organs for the player to remove. Generic gibs, yes. You're more likely to see organs used as scenery or in cutscenes, which means you the player aren't really disemboweling anyone. HeXeN had some detailed entrails... but they were 2d and very basic... At its time it looked realisic... but now its cartoony. Quake 4 had some in the Intro and thats it.
Re: Let us have a look at thatlongtimelurkerJuly 23 2006, 12:07:49 UTC
It depends on what regional version you played of silent hill but there were childlike enemies in one or two regions. They were removed for the other regions obviously. The child like enemies were the ones that attacked Harry at the start of the game. If you didn't see those critters then you had the version with that mob removed.
Bloody slaughter of babies:
The closest I can think of here would be Doom 3, which had warped cherubim monsters that made you feel genuinely uneasy about killing. At a push, Silent Hill has had some almost-children enemies.
Bloody slaughter of animals:
Yep. The obvious one here is Carmageddon, which even had a zoo in one of its incarnations. Otherwise, many games feature animals as enemies though, in their defence, they are trying to kill you. Not-quite-so-bloody slaughter of animals is just, well, hunting. That's a sport.
Urination:
One game: Postal. Some others (I'm looking at you, FPSes) have bathrooms that you can "use" but are little more than a sound effect.
Defecation:
Got me. I can't think of one that features that sort of thing in an any way realistic manner. Closest approximation off the top of my head: Ovipositioning a la Yoshi.
Rape:
Rape Rape Revolution and that one ancient 8-bitter that some people like to bring up. Newsflash: GTA:SA's hidden sex scenes were consensual.
Decapitation and dismemberment:
Definitely yes. Pretty much any game with a gun will have flying limbs and optional buckets o' gore. One thing, though: So what? Why is decapitating someone in a game morally worse than slashing them with a sword and having them fall to the ground and disappear?
Disembowelment:
Kind of. Not many games have modelled organs for the player to remove. Generic gibs, yes. You're more likely to see organs used as scenery or in cutscenes, which means you the player aren't really disemboweling anyone.
His overall statement:
Rubbish. He is using the likes of Postal to tar the likes of, well, everything else. How long before gamism becomes a hate crime?
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The closest I can think of here would be Doom 3, which had warped cherubim monsters that made you feel genuinely uneasy about killing. At a push, Silent Hill has had some almost-children enemies.
Prey also has ghostly children you kill. But that is a bit of push, since they are already dead....
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Also, in WoW you are penalized for killing civilian NPC's...
Hatch makes it sound like there are games where the object is to kill kids.
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Children in WoW are unattackable & unkillable.
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:-(
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Bloody slaughter of babies: Fallout had kids in at least one of the towns (shady sands), and the means to kill them. *But* it's not all that bloody (given Fallout's age and graphics) there's no reason for the player to do it, and if I remember properly the games really shafts you if you do kill one.
Defecation: Black and white, your animal does it. Thre was also the entire poo section of Bad Fur Day (the bull fight comes to mind). Finally there was also the poop mines in Space Station Scilicon Valley, but that's just way too silly to count.
Urination: Bad Fur Day again, the Rock Solid section comes to mind, but there was a couple other parts.
Overall though I have to agree, there's no point in this, it sounds like he's just throwing random crap out there to see what sticks.
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Conker's - was it pooping, the act of, or was the stuff just there? Also, Conker's was comedic. How many movies have poop, vomit and fart gags? Quite a few...
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Both, there was plenty of it just there, and then there was the bull fight which well... let's just say it involved cows and prune juice. Silly of cource, but it's there so I figure it's worth a mention.
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There's a point with the movies. CG effects feature heavily in movies which are valid high-class speech as a medium. I've seen people get cut in half on the big screen, and I'm pretty certain computers were used to achieve that effect. Scanners has an infamous headsplodey scene which was created with real goo, and that film is protected speech. GTA lets you aim at someone's head and remove it in a small splat of pixels, and that is not protected speech. So CG gore in a movie controlled by the director = OK, but CG gore in a game controlled by the player = bad. Right.
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Disembowlment: I'm guessing he's talking about Mortal Combat and its descendants. There's also a disemboweled soldier at the end of Purple Heart Lane on Brothers In Arms.
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The closest I can think of here would be Doom 3, which had warped cherubim monsters that made you feel genuinely uneasy about killing. At a push, Silent Hill has had some almost-children enemies.
Silent Hill had some monsters planned but were removed.
Bloody slaughter of animals:
Yep. The obvious one here is Carmageddon, which even had a zoo in one of its incarnations. Otherwise, many games feature animals as enemies though, in their defence, they are trying to kill you. Not-quite-so-bloody slaughter of animals is just, well, hunting. That's a sport.
Hunting games... WoW you can kill animals but you skin em and make use of what you find.
Urination:
One game: Postal. Some others (I'm looking at you, FPSes) have bathrooms that you can "use" but are little more than a sound effect.
Duke 3D had bathroom which you can make use of... but its just noise and no effects
Defecation:
Got me. I can't think of one that features that sort of thing in an any way realistic manner. Closest approximation off the top of my head: Ovipositioning a la Yoshi.
Black and White... you can throw poo that your creature does... but thats it it.
Now in WoW if you go into pretty much any area where the ogres are you can see poo piles... funny looking swirly piles of poo... made to be comedic.
Rape:
Rape Rape Revolution and that one ancient 8-bitter that some people like to bring up. Newsflash: GTA:SA's hidden sex scenes were consensual.
Umm... what games have had this? And what has he been watching?
Decapitation and dismemberment:
Definitely yes. Pretty much any game with a gun will have flying limbs and optional buckets o' gore. One thing, though: So what? Why is decapitating someone in a game morally worse than slashing them with a sword and having them fall to the ground and disappear?
He needs to watch some 80s horror movies or hostel... cause if he thinks games are bad wait till he see Hostel/Saw/Saw II.
Disembowelment:
Kind of. Not many games have modelled organs for the player to remove. Generic gibs, yes. You're more likely to see organs used as scenery or in cutscenes, which means you the player aren't really disemboweling anyone.
HeXeN had some detailed entrails... but they were 2d and very basic...
At its time it looked realisic... but now its cartoony.
Quake 4 had some in the Intro and thats it.
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The child like enemies were the ones that attacked Harry at the start of the game. If you didn't see those critters then you had the version with that mob removed.
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