Aha! An interesting distinction. (Interesting, too, that Peter takes that rejection/abandonment as being unwanted as opposed to the slight off-chance that Angela - assuming she ordered it or the Haitian trying to do a good deed, which is more likely - wanted Peter to be safe. Angela did try to do that with Claire in S1…To be fair, this comes on the heels of Angela being 'okay' with Peter exploding and dying and 'hurting-to-help' isn't exactly what one thinks about when one thinks of Angela).
Another distinction is that Peter really didn't know who or what he was so he could enjoy the ignorance - he was still mentally whole, his personality still intact, so he was still a well-formed, mostly-healthy person. Sylar has flashbacks of two or three different people when he was 'wiped,' I don't think he was ever a very whole person, his personality was brittle and changeable, usually abused in any case. All that to say, it's not quite the same thing. I wonder if either of them knows that in this fic.
I loved catching the name-drop of Hooper! (I wonder if Peter did that consciously).
Peter brings up a good point - being made into a Petrelli, one's enemy, makes everything worse! Another thing that's different: Peter is turned into a non-Petrelli and left to make his own life/name, and Sylar is turned into a Petrelli, forced to be a Petrelli in the middle of Nathan's career publicly going down the toilet.
At this stage (late S4 or shortly post-S4), Peter does not believe Angela wants him safe. He doesn't believe he's her favorite, nor does he think that being her 'favorite' or in her favor is a good thing. He struggles with seeing her as a loving and human person. Most of her past actions, he sees with a suspicious and jaundiced eye. He knows that losing Nathan hurt her. He believes that if he (Peter) were lost, that would hurt her. He doesn't think that possible hurt to her means she will treat him any differently, or expend/use/eliminate him as soon as she needs to. He wonders if her maternal love towards him all those years was her playing a role and taking joy and pleasure in playing it well, rather than in actually loving him.
For a long time, I believed my ex loved me. (I find this still highly debatable - I'm not sure one way or the other.) I put that same uncertainty into my characterization of Peter and his relationship with Angela. She's done many things he believed to be expressions of love, but she's tried to kill him (he thinks - he's not sure), misled him, tormented him, erased his past, taken away his brother, driven away at least two of his possible lovers (Caitlin and Emma), set him on killing his father, told him Sylar was his brother, and so many other things that Peter aches inside. The logical thing is that she's a sociopath and none of the 'love' he's had from her has been genuine in the way he thinks of love. It's been more ... admiration for a well-trained dog, or a well-maintained car that performs as you wish it to perform. Thinking this has torn Peter's heart out - this is his mother. It's worse than any enmity he feels towards Sylar - way worse.
I don't think he was ever a very whole person, his personality was brittle and changeable, usually abused in any case. All that to say, it's not quite the same thing. I wonder if either of them knows that in this fic. In this fic, I don't think they've gotten that far in understanding one another, but conversations like the one in this fic are letting them start down that road, so they see the differences, the commonalities, and what the other and their self needs to heal. But as of right this conversation - they haven't gotten that far.
Who's Hooper? I guess that wasn't conscious, because I remember initially using Hopper (the name of a coworker) and then thinking that Hooper was better for some reason. But as of now, I can't recall why Hooper was better.
being made into a Petrelli, one's enemy, makes everything worse! Maybe that's a point of view thing, because I don't see it that way. Switching sides is something I see people do frequently (in social circles, companies, in the course of arguments and personal disputes, etc.) People don't seem deeply scarred by it. Maybe it's an outsider's perspective for me, but they don't even seem discomfited. It's like the experience strengthens their self-image somehow. Like how religious converts are the most fervent believers, or people who speak a language as a second language are the most particular about grammar and punctuation (especially as it relates to their own speaking of it). So while it seems logical that someone would find it repugnant to be forced to join the enemy, I've seen lots of people do it without any mind-altering and they seem happy with it, like it resolves something within themselves.
Again, this might be flavored by personal experience, but it seems to me that actual castigation and rejection are the more hurtful, where you're kicked out and not wanted anywhere. You have no other side to join, no people who will accept you, and there's nothing you can do or make yourself be that will earn you their tolerance.
This ended up being a more personal answer than I was expecting. Thank you so much for bringing up these points!
William Hooper (aka Samual Sullivan) tried to sue Peter in S4 for the whiplash at the train wreck. Sylar wouldn't know that (or rather, he wouldn't remember it).
For one thing there's a difference between switching sides and joining the literal enemy (and being turned into someone else you despise or envy) - someone who has persecuted, rejected, tortured you. Perhaps that's what you're describing because that makes more sense to me and in that sense, you would be very correct. When you have more to gain, differences or the past can be set aside - the pleasure/pain principal with the freedom of choice.
Darnit. There was something about your comment that made me realize Peter had noticed something about the fic, something hypocritical? Like…Peter noticed or classified his family as the enemy? Or was it…Ah! I can't remember!
Another distinction is that Peter really didn't know who or what he was so he could enjoy the ignorance - he was still mentally whole, his personality still intact, so he was still a well-formed, mostly-healthy person. Sylar has flashbacks of two or three different people when he was 'wiped,' I don't think he was ever a very whole person, his personality was brittle and changeable, usually abused in any case. All that to say, it's not quite the same thing. I wonder if either of them knows that in this fic.
I loved catching the name-drop of Hooper! (I wonder if Peter did that consciously).
Peter brings up a good point - being made into a Petrelli, one's enemy, makes everything worse! Another thing that's different: Peter is turned into a non-Petrelli and left to make his own life/name, and Sylar is turned into a Petrelli, forced to be a Petrelli in the middle of Nathan's career publicly going down the toilet.
Reply
For a long time, I believed my ex loved me. (I find this still highly debatable - I'm not sure one way or the other.) I put that same uncertainty into my characterization of Peter and his relationship with Angela. She's done many things he believed to be expressions of love, but she's tried to kill him (he thinks - he's not sure), misled him, tormented him, erased his past, taken away his brother, driven away at least two of his possible lovers (Caitlin and Emma), set him on killing his father, told him Sylar was his brother, and so many other things that Peter aches inside. The logical thing is that she's a sociopath and none of the 'love' he's had from her has been genuine in the way he thinks of love. It's been more ... admiration for a well-trained dog, or a well-maintained car that performs as you wish it to perform. Thinking this has torn Peter's heart out - this is his mother. It's worse than any enmity he feels towards Sylar - way worse.
I don't think he was ever a very whole person, his personality was brittle and changeable, usually abused in any case. All that to say, it's not quite the same thing. I wonder if either of them knows that in this fic.
In this fic, I don't think they've gotten that far in understanding one another, but conversations like the one in this fic are letting them start down that road, so they see the differences, the commonalities, and what the other and their self needs to heal. But as of right this conversation - they haven't gotten that far.
Who's Hooper? I guess that wasn't conscious, because I remember initially using Hopper (the name of a coworker) and then thinking that Hooper was better for some reason. But as of now, I can't recall why Hooper was better.
being made into a Petrelli, one's enemy, makes everything worse!
Maybe that's a point of view thing, because I don't see it that way. Switching sides is something I see people do frequently (in social circles, companies, in the course of arguments and personal disputes, etc.) People don't seem deeply scarred by it. Maybe it's an outsider's perspective for me, but they don't even seem discomfited. It's like the experience strengthens their self-image somehow. Like how religious converts are the most fervent believers, or people who speak a language as a second language are the most particular about grammar and punctuation (especially as it relates to their own speaking of it). So while it seems logical that someone would find it repugnant to be forced to join the enemy, I've seen lots of people do it without any mind-altering and they seem happy with it, like it resolves something within themselves.
Again, this might be flavored by personal experience, but it seems to me that actual castigation and rejection are the more hurtful, where you're kicked out and not wanted anywhere. You have no other side to join, no people who will accept you, and there's nothing you can do or make yourself be that will earn you their tolerance.
This ended up being a more personal answer than I was expecting. Thank you so much for bringing up these points!
Reply
For one thing there's a difference between switching sides and joining the literal enemy (and being turned into someone else you despise or envy) - someone who has persecuted, rejected, tortured you. Perhaps that's what you're describing because that makes more sense to me and in that sense, you would be very correct. When you have more to gain, differences or the past can be set aside - the pleasure/pain principal with the freedom of choice.
Darnit. There was something about your comment that made me realize Peter had noticed something about the fic, something hypocritical? Like…Peter noticed or classified his family as the enemy? Or was it…Ah! I can't remember!
Reply
I think you're right that the 'being morphed into someone else' is a big deal and a major difference between Peter and Sylar's identity crises.
Reply
Leave a comment