Yeah, these two were more along me trying to figure out how to incorporate violence into sex - actual, uncontrolled, unscripted violence. Because in my limited experience, violence, anger, and fear are huge turn-offs. The only exception to that is the 'I'm going to teach you a lesson' sexual assault, which is not something I'm comfortable writing (The Prisoner aside, which I think I'm mentioned was an exercise in some of my issues).
I understand staged and/or scripted violence being quite the turn on. There's the whole power thing, knowing your partner is being careful with you while at the same time getting so much action in the scene that the adrenaline is pumping ... But even the BDSM kinksters don't go for uncontrolled, no-holds-barred scenes, as far as I've seen.
Yet I run across this trope so often in fic ... like I reread Friday on my Mind last night and at one point Sylar and Peter kiss, smashing their faces together so hard that Peter's lip splits and he bleeds. To me, that's when you stop kissing! That's when Peter jerks his head back with a pained, "Ow!", brows pulled together in dismay and reaches up to touch his lip while giving Sylar a look like he's been betrayed. Or, you know, hurt in the middle of sexytimes. And then the sexytimes are over, because Peter needs to go put an ice pack on his mouth and Sylar is frustrated, put out, and a little apologetic.
At least that's how it plays out in my head when I try to go there - to the violence stuff. The muses do what I think they'd do in real life, which means the unexpected, uncontrolled violence shuts the scene down rather than make it hot.
It's different if Peter is hurting Sylar, though. Sylar tends to roll over, submit and yeah, he gets turned on. But that's only if he perceives Peter's attack as not a real threat. The damage being done to him has to be fairly careful because it can't be tripping Sylar's (admittedly poorly developed) fight or flight instinct.
I'll think about it. I had a sequel for Things Unsaid that was supposed to explore a violent sexual theme, but then I lost the train of thought and when I went to write it, something else entirely happened.
I think that's an interesting distinction about types of violence.
My personal opinion, just to throw it out there rather randomly, is that Peter (SS is probably the best example of this, loosely) would call time-out for a hurt, or bleeding lip. Depending on the situation, of course, I think Peter gets over things/forgives things quickly and would try to jump back in after establishing that that action is uncool/not allowed/establishing boundaries. A bleeding lip isn't cool - I don't see anyone getting away with that one on Peter because he's a kisser and a split lip *hurts* so that's an automatic "not cool" to the action, yes. I don't see anyone getting away with even kissing Peter that hard, not longer than a couple seconds if Peter can help it or do something about it. So, I guess I agree.
I think the difference that's important to me (not that it matters horribly) but really matters to Sylar is that Peter's lack of tolerance of pain/hurt be seen and portrayed as a choice, not Peter wussing out about being hurt. The guy's tough, he can and will take it, but he doesn't want to and feels he shouldn't have to so there's that distinction. Weakness isn't something Sylar will find horribly attractive (not from a man, at least. A woman invokes an entirely different response).
Violence, to me, is being thrown through a wall, black eyes, busted noses, any type of joint or tendon injury and that kind of thing. Broken bones and injured organs are obvious.
However, I think the type of scene you see from a movie, more rip your clothes off, rough and tumble approach is acceptable to Peter because he's the more experienced (been there, done that, had sex/done sex in weird places, with strangers, probably unsafely sometimes, drunk/high, adventurous. That's not to say any of that is required, that his bar is set that high. Some people *do* get their 'bar' set that high and they literally can't get off with anything less. Sylar's...kind of one of them, although he hasn't tried everything. Peter's mature and what he's looking from from sex is probably love/relationship). I think Peter can roll with that because he's a guy and he likes a little excitement, adrenaline.
I hate Peter tropes so much. Peter enjoying blood and hurt like that is one of them, not the worst, but I think its OOC. It's important to take into account which/when Peter you're dealing with - what season he's in (if its an AU), the setting/circumstances around him, who he's dealing with and the relationship if any. I mean, see, my problem with it is: I can see Future!Peter enjoying a lot of things S3/S4 Peter would never enjoy and there's a big difference between S3 Peter and S4 Peter, too, and that's canon! Emo-girly!Peter is the worst, though.
Not here to lecture anyone about Peter because that's not my place, but I can spot bad characterization miles away, strangely. Those are my thoughts. Unsolicited, of course.
I also agree about Sylar's standards, we'll call them. They're more weird and random than Peter's (whose are probably more stable and across-the-board for consistency). More like stepping on land mines or...not. I can see Peter just having a hell of a time figuring each and every one of them out - I don't envy him that position! It's probably a certain amount of pickiness, too. Provided it doesn't trigger his fight-flight instinct, yeah, he'll probably just tough it out even if he doesn't like it.
I guess one approach to avoid or work around "shut downs" in a scene is to endure the characters have growth or that the piece/series gets some resolution. I dunno.
The more I think about it, the more I think it's totally a character thing - something I hadn't seen so clearly. I guess I'm too buried in Peter! Because, for example, I could see Adam going with violent sex rather carelessly, if that seemed to be the order of the day. And Sylar, as I already said, would roll with it under a lot of circumstances. I could see darkish Future!Peter going with it, too, although it wouldn't be his real preference.
I've never understood where people were getting emo-girly!Peter either (though I'll admit that at times he's moody, emo, passive aggressive, broody and occasionally overly dramatic). Even in season 1, it didn't fit for me. But Peter is very different depending on which season he is, which isn't a complaint about inconsistency. Actually I think it's a sign of great writing, that his character responds and changes based on the events he's had to endure.
Rough-and-tumble, desperate/fast-paced sex is fine. With me and Peter-muse. No, what I'm objecting to is more the "lips smash together and there's blood" or the "Sylar uses telekinesis to slice Peter open from navel to collarbone and Peter is incredibly turned on by this" or "Peter gets punched in the face, thrown against the wall, has his trousers jerked down and face ground into the brick as his attacker begins to rape fuck him." Some of it bleeds heavily (pun intended) into my triggers about rape-that-the-victim-enjoys, so maybe that's what's setting me off.
Some people get off from playing at the edge of consent, and I sometimes find dub-con to be really hot. Other times it makes me want to curl up in the corner and ... yeah.
Yeah, these two were more along me trying to figure out how to incorporate violence into sex - actual, uncontrolled, unscripted violence. Because in my limited experience, violence, anger, and fear are huge turn-offs. The only exception to that is the 'I'm going to teach you a lesson' sexual assault, which is not something I'm comfortable writing (The Prisoner aside, which I think I'm mentioned was an exercise in some of my issues).
I understand staged and/or scripted violence being quite the turn on. There's the whole power thing, knowing your partner is being careful with you while at the same time getting so much action in the scene that the adrenaline is pumping ... But even the BDSM kinksters don't go for uncontrolled, no-holds-barred scenes, as far as I've seen.
Yet I run across this trope so often in fic ... like I reread Friday on my Mind last night and at one point Sylar and Peter kiss, smashing their faces together so hard that Peter's lip splits and he bleeds. To me, that's when you stop kissing! That's when Peter jerks his head back with a pained, "Ow!", brows pulled together in dismay and reaches up to touch his lip while giving Sylar a look like he's been betrayed. Or, you know, hurt in the middle of sexytimes. And then the sexytimes are over, because Peter needs to go put an ice pack on his mouth and Sylar is frustrated, put out, and a little apologetic.
At least that's how it plays out in my head when I try to go there - to the violence stuff. The muses do what I think they'd do in real life, which means the unexpected, uncontrolled violence shuts the scene down rather than make it hot.
It's different if Peter is hurting Sylar, though. Sylar tends to roll over, submit and yeah, he gets turned on. But that's only if he perceives Peter's attack as not a real threat. The damage being done to him has to be fairly careful because it can't be tripping Sylar's (admittedly poorly developed) fight or flight instinct.
I'll think about it. I had a sequel for Things Unsaid that was supposed to explore a violent sexual theme, but then I lost the train of thought and when I went to write it, something else entirely happened.
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I think that's an interesting distinction about types of violence.
My personal opinion, just to throw it out there rather randomly, is that Peter (SS is probably the best example of this, loosely) would call time-out for a hurt, or bleeding lip. Depending on the situation, of course, I think Peter gets over things/forgives things quickly and would try to jump back in after establishing that that action is uncool/not allowed/establishing boundaries. A bleeding lip isn't cool - I don't see anyone getting away with that one on Peter because he's a kisser and a split lip *hurts* so that's an automatic "not cool" to the action, yes. I don't see anyone getting away with even kissing Peter that hard, not longer than a couple seconds if Peter can help it or do something about it. So, I guess I agree.
I think the difference that's important to me (not that it matters horribly) but really matters to Sylar is that Peter's lack of tolerance of pain/hurt be seen and portrayed as a choice, not Peter wussing out about being hurt. The guy's tough, he can and will take it, but he doesn't want to and feels he shouldn't have to so there's that distinction. Weakness isn't something Sylar will find horribly attractive (not from a man, at least. A woman invokes an entirely different response).
Violence, to me, is being thrown through a wall, black eyes, busted noses, any type of joint or tendon injury and that kind of thing. Broken bones and injured organs are obvious.
However, I think the type of scene you see from a movie, more rip your clothes off, rough and tumble approach is acceptable to Peter because he's the more experienced (been there, done that, had sex/done sex in weird places, with strangers, probably unsafely sometimes, drunk/high, adventurous. That's not to say any of that is required, that his bar is set that high. Some people *do* get their 'bar' set that high and they literally can't get off with anything less. Sylar's...kind of one of them, although he hasn't tried everything. Peter's mature and what he's looking from from sex is probably love/relationship). I think Peter can roll with that because he's a guy and he likes a little excitement, adrenaline.
I hate Peter tropes so much. Peter enjoying blood and hurt like that is one of them, not the worst, but I think its OOC. It's important to take into account which/when Peter you're dealing with - what season he's in (if its an AU), the setting/circumstances around him, who he's dealing with and the relationship if any. I mean, see, my problem with it is: I can see Future!Peter enjoying a lot of things S3/S4 Peter would never enjoy and there's a big difference between S3 Peter and S4 Peter, too, and that's canon! Emo-girly!Peter is the worst, though.
Not here to lecture anyone about Peter because that's not my place, but I can spot bad characterization miles away, strangely. Those are my thoughts. Unsolicited, of course.
I also agree about Sylar's standards, we'll call them. They're more weird and random than Peter's (whose are probably more stable and across-the-board for consistency). More like stepping on land mines or...not. I can see Peter just having a hell of a time figuring each and every one of them out - I don't envy him that position! It's probably a certain amount of pickiness, too. Provided it doesn't trigger his fight-flight instinct, yeah, he'll probably just tough it out even if he doesn't like it.
I guess one approach to avoid or work around "shut downs" in a scene is to endure the characters have growth or that the piece/series gets some resolution. I dunno.
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I've never understood where people were getting emo-girly!Peter either (though I'll admit that at times he's moody, emo, passive aggressive, broody and occasionally overly dramatic). Even in season 1, it didn't fit for me. But Peter is very different depending on which season he is, which isn't a complaint about inconsistency. Actually I think it's a sign of great writing, that his character responds and changes based on the events he's had to endure.
Rough-and-tumble, desperate/fast-paced sex is fine. With me and Peter-muse. No, what I'm objecting to is more the "lips smash together and there's blood" or the "Sylar uses telekinesis to slice Peter open from navel to collarbone and Peter is incredibly turned on by this" or "Peter gets punched in the face, thrown against the wall, has his trousers jerked down and face ground into the brick as his attacker begins to rape fuck him." Some of it bleeds heavily (pun intended) into my triggers about rape-that-the-victim-enjoys, so maybe that's what's setting me off.
Some people get off from playing at the edge of consent, and I sometimes find dub-con to be really hot. Other times it makes me want to curl up in the corner and ... yeah.
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