Did the World Shake When You Were Redeemed?

[gabrielleabelle]

Thanks for keeping me entertained while housesitting, guys. There were a bunch of insightful and interesting responses to my last entry. I didn't even bother replying to comments because I felt like keeping my own opinion to myself on this one and just seeing what others thought. Definitely some interesting stuff there

Comments

[jamalov29]

Great post .In fact, count me in to share most of your opinions.;-)

He spent a long time as a very evil creature. I don't know that that can be redeemed if we're going by those terms. Yes. A soul doesn't negate the past crimes and evilness.
Somebody doing good deeds "for love" doesn't diminish the value of those deeds. It's as good a reason to do good as any, really. Nods profusely. Spike's motivations never weighed so much in the balance for me. What mattered is that he wanted to do good. Like you said, I think -and I'm not a cynic :-) that everyone of us has selfish motives somehow.

a soulless Spike would never be able to do good with a full understanding of what he's doing. Maybe here would be the small point where I don't share your views. I tend to think a soulless Spikes knows well what is right and wrong but he chooses to care,or not care. He 's aware when he does something good or not.
Redemption is trying. Seeking the good, whatever the reason, even if you don't understand why. Going against your nature for years while others try to discourage you. A thousand of yes. Spikes tries and never gives up, that is his essence - beyond the snarky. ;)

That is, in this show, with the characters being the way they are and events playing out as they had, that Spike had to get a soul to continue with his redemption.Yes ,again.

It’s fairly well established in the Buffyverse that a soul matters and is a necessary condition for a vampire to see why good should be a goal.Despite this ‘rule’, I would have wanted something else for Spike for I truly believed he didn't need one to be the hero , champion and man he's become.

Because he really did feel guilty,because he did his best to be a better man , wanting the soul and deciding to go to Africa to gain one would have been enough for me , it validated his redemptive journey.I’ve seen him change , I’ve seen him grow into someone who could ask for his soul back.
Sadly I have to take into account the awful events of SR and I guess that seeking his soul was, after that, the only magnificent gesture that could prove to Buffy that he wanted forgiveness, the only thing that could allow them to be together again.
So a souled Spike is a beautiful thing.
Rahirah wrote : “It was the wanting to be good without one, however flawed his motives may have been, that made Spike extraordinary.” And that’s where I stand, too.

[gabrielleabelle]

I agree with your agreement. :)

It's a complicated matter

[jamalov29]

:)

I wanted to add that now that I've read the other interesting and insightful comments ( thank you for the great thread ! )I agree that some made very valid points, and Spike maybe never could reach his full potential without the soul..however I have a tendency to see everything through spuffy glasses and Buffy as his external compass is a marvelous thing in my world.
To those who would argue : what would happen if /when she isn't in his life anymore for whatever reasons? I would say that his love for her changed him deeply and he wouldn't stop being aware of right and wrong and he would keep going, keep trying .
Of course that would give love an extraordinary power.
That would mean that love is enough, memories of love are enough.

Which is my belief. And that's basically where I would be rather alone. ;-)

Re: It's a complicated matter

[gabrielleabelle]

It is a very complicated matter. Especially because there are many ways to approach it. Looking at things as they happened in the show. Also, looking at things as they could have been if it had played out differently.

Honestly, I actually think love is one of the more noble motivations to do good. One could do good for money or out of fear or self-preservation. Love is a pretty positive motivator, so I have no problem with a soulless Spike doing good for love, and I would still say he's on a redemptive path while doing so.

I also think it's interesting to speculate how Spike would respond after Buffy's death in this circumstance. Whether he'd eventually return to his evilness or if he'd continue doing good in her memory. I'm an optimist, so I tend to think the latter. :)