Oh! First comment! Fair warning, you get all my THOUGHTS on this ep (and I have many!) :)
My answer to number 2 is "Yes and no." It's significant to Riley that he percieves her as having shut down so therefore it's significant altogether. But I don't think Buffy had shut down. That's Riley's flawed perspective.
Yeah, I agree. I can see that.
I'd like to think the writers don't think it but I don't really know what they are thinking so I've gone for not sure. I hope they didn't think it though because I really don't feel it.
Heh. I think they did think it mainly based on Jane Espenson's commentary on I Was Made to Love You.
Ugh, Xander's speech. I've not watched the episode for a while so I've forgotten enough to make it hard for me to vote. I think it was definietely well intended and he was trying to push her into talking to Riley before he left just for closure if nothing else but I think it falls ... a bit flat and that's where the feeling of it all being Buffy's fault comes in for me.
THOUGHTS AHEAD:
Xander's speech was going well until Buffy tells him what Riley was doing. That should have completely derailed Xander's attempt to get Buffy to SEE what he saw. Instead, when Buffy tries to walk away, he forces her to listen to him as he subsequently blames Buffy for it all. That's beyond the fucking pale. Really? His response to learning that Riley was visiting vamp-whores is, "Well, Buffy, it's kinda your fault cause you were all shut down after Angel left"? Fuck that, dude.
Xander's speech was going well until Buffy tells him what Riley was doing. That should have completely derailed Xander's attempt to get Buffy to SEE what he saw. Instead, when Buffy tries to walk away, he forces her to listen to him as he subsequently blames Buffy for it all. That's beyond the fucking pale. Really? His response to learning that Riley was visiting vamp-whores is, "Well, Buffy, it's kinda your fault cause you were all shut down after Angel left"? Fuck that, dude.
Okay, YES THIS. It's been so long since I watched the speech that I didn't remember that this is how it went down, but: YES YES YES.
Heh. I think they did think it mainly based on Jane Espenson's commentary on I Was Made to Love You.
I should re-watch that commentary, because I just had a thought -- there is often a gap of years between the writing of an episode and the giving of the commentary, and it's just possible that Jane uses the "shut down" concept because she's recalling the dialog in the episode, rather than accurately recalling what the writers were thinking during the writing process.
Xander's speech! ARGH! It's his most assholish act of the entire series, barring the asshole speech in Entropy -- but at least everyone NOTICES he's being a dick, and he even kind of apologizes in Seeing Red. Nobody holds him accountable for the asshole speech in Into the Woods, NOBODY.
*huggles Buffy*
When I was dissecting exactly why I hate this episode so much, I realized that it has almost no Willow. Because that is exactly what Willow would do. Willow would huggle Buffy even if she thought the whole damn thing was Buffy's fault, because that's what best friends do.
I agree that the big turning point in Xander's speech is when Buffy reveals what Riley was doing -- after that Xander loses whatever high ground he had, but in typical Xander fashion he panics and tries to hold onto whatever narrative he had before and ignores the new information as best he can.
My answer to number 2 is "Yes and no." It's significant to Riley that he percieves her as having shut down so therefore it's significant altogether. But I don't think Buffy had shut down. That's Riley's flawed perspective.
Yeah, I agree. I can see that.
I'd like to think the writers don't think it but I don't really know what they are thinking so I've gone for not sure. I hope they didn't think it though because I really don't feel it.
Heh. I think they did think it mainly based on Jane Espenson's commentary on I Was Made to Love You.
Ugh, Xander's speech. I've not watched the episode for a while so I've forgotten enough to make it hard for me to vote. I think it was definietely well intended and he was trying to push her into talking to Riley before he left just for closure if nothing else but I think it falls ... a bit flat and that's where the feeling of it all being Buffy's fault comes in for me.
THOUGHTS AHEAD:
Xander's speech was going well until Buffy tells him what Riley was doing. That should have completely derailed Xander's attempt to get Buffy to SEE what he saw. Instead, when Buffy tries to walk away, he forces her to listen to him as he subsequently blames Buffy for it all. That's beyond the fucking pale. Really? His response to learning that Riley was visiting vamp-whores is, "Well, Buffy, it's kinda your fault cause you were all shut down after Angel left"? Fuck that, dude.
*huggles Buffy*
Reply
Okay, YES THIS. It's been so long since I watched the speech that I didn't remember that this is how it went down, but: YES YES YES.
Reply
I should re-watch that commentary, because I just had a thought -- there is often a gap of years between the writing of an episode and the giving of the commentary, and it's just possible that Jane uses the "shut down" concept because she's recalling the dialog in the episode, rather than accurately recalling what the writers were thinking during the writing process.
Xander's speech! ARGH! It's his most assholish act of the entire series, barring the asshole speech in Entropy -- but at least everyone NOTICES he's being a dick, and he even kind of apologizes in Seeing Red. Nobody holds him accountable for the asshole speech in Into the Woods, NOBODY.
*huggles Buffy*
When I was dissecting exactly why I hate this episode so much, I realized that it has almost no Willow. Because that is exactly what Willow would do. Willow would huggle Buffy even if she thought the whole damn thing was Buffy's fault, because that's what best friends do.
Reply
When I was dissecting exactly why I hate this episode so much, I realized that it has almost no Willow. Because that is exactly what Willow would do.
I know! We never even really get an indication as to what Buffy told the others as far as what happened. Or maybe Xander filled them in. Ick.
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment