1. Romantic - but if I’m being totally honest I really don’t see it as either? I just really don’t see it as being creepy, especially since he actually comes up and speaks to her, so I went with the less negative choice instead.
2. Xanders - I’ve seen this episode so, so many times but I still burst out laughing every time he starts multiplying the math wrong in his head. Hilarious!
3. He’s being truthful - he was most invested in Darla when she was either carrying his child or showing more “goodness” during The Trial. He was clearly fixated on her throughout most of S2 but I don’t think he was particularly drawn to her “badness.”
4. No, he was right - I don’t think he was ever in love with Darla. He doesn’t miss her at all when she leaves in S2 and although I think he clearly had feelings for her, he deals with her death very easily in S3 (in comparison to the 3 months he takes away after Buffy’s passing). I think they bonded most over their love of Connor but when infected with his soul, even Darla decides that her son is the
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1. I always think Angel stalking Buffy is creepy. Especially when she had explicitly told him she needed a break in the previous episode. Dude, get a new hobby.
2. Same here! I also love his running out of the library!
I guess I just don’t really see it as “stalking.” I checked over the dialogue again and it sounds like he just went looking for her and then approached her when he found her. I don’t really get the impression he had been watching her without her knowing or anything like that.
After Buffy calls for a break, he starts going out to look for her for ambiguous reasons. He says he's "tracking" her just to make sure she's okay. Well-intentioned or not (and whether she knows about it or not), it's typical Angelus-stalky behavior, and not really appropriate for a dude whose girlfriend said she needed some time away from him.
IMO, “typical Angelus-stalky behaviour” is to watch her from a distance without her ever knowing about it. Like in the episode Angel when we see that he’s been watching her at the Bronze or in Pangs when he spies on her. Whereas, in Earshot he just goes looking for her and when he finds her he walks straight up to her.
Whether or not it was appropriate for him to make any contact with her whilst they were on a “break” is an entirely different issue, IMO, but I don’t think it means Angel was “stalking her.” If I tell an ex-girlfriend I need a break from the relationship and she walks up to me on the street I wouldn’t accuse her of stalking me, even if she admitted she had went looking for me because she was concerned for some reason.
Is it possible we’re interpreting “tracking” differently? When I hear that word I think of somebody saying “I’m glad I tracked you down” or, in other words, “I’m glad I found you.” Doesn’t Buffy often say she “tracked a demon” down when she’s on patrol? If anything, I’d say it’s proof Angel hadn’t been
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See, "tracking" suggests to me stalking. When he says he's been tracking her, I don't think he means in that specific instance but in a general, "I've been keeping an eye on you" way. Even trying to be generous to Angel, he's not there for any particular reason. He specifically says "it's a dangerous time", but it's no more dangerous than it had been at the end of the last episode when Buffy called for a break. Why's he approaching her then? I can't swing that in any way but to assume that he's doing his normal Angel thing of stalking Buffy when she wants to be away from him.
I mean, if the character didn't have a history of stalking her, I wouldn't be so quick to assume as such. But...Angel stalks. He wanders in through Buffy's bedroom window. He tracks her. That's what he does. I don't see the need to give him the benefit of the doubt in this particular case.
See, "tracking" suggests to me stalking. When he says he's been tracking her, I don't think he means in that specific instance but in a general, "I've been keeping an eye on you" way.
Ah! Well I think that's probably why we interpret this differently because I do think he means it in that specific instance. When I think of “tracking” I think of all those times in AtS when we see him hunting down somebody by smelling their blood, talking to informants, following a body trail etc. I don’t think of it as him keeping a watchful eye on someone.
He specifically says "it's a dangerous time", but it's no more dangerous than it had been at the end of the last episode when Buffy called for a break.
IMO, he was probably getting agitated sitting around in his mansion thinking that Buffy could be in some kind of danger. I think he was trying to respect her wishes at the end of the last episode but I’m sure he was concerned.
Why's he approaching her then?
Well, why approach her at all? If he'd really been stalking her for a period of time
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Heh. Don't know that we're gonna reach an agreement given we're coming from opposing premises (That's okay. Agreement isn't required). :)
But just to clarify one thing.
Well, why approach her at all? If he'd really been stalking her for a period of time why would he decide to go speak to her then when he'd been happy spying from a distance?
It almost doesn't matter to me. It's ambiguous, to be sure, but it's creepy regardless. If a homegirl of mine called a break with her boyfriend and the dude started checking on her in such a manner, I'd think he were being a creeper. You were specifically challenging the "stalker" label, though, so that was a bit outside the bounds of the debate to bring in. :)
I don't think it's unreasonable to think that he'd been stalking her, noticed she was looking upset about something (the essence of the demon thing), and so decided to approach her to see what was up.
I can see what you're saying, however, if he were stalking her like all those other times why wouldn't they just show it?But they did.
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Isn't Buffy the one coming up with the world tracking? I always thought he just went out to see her (which wasn't respectful of her wishes but not stalking)and just went along with her choice of worlds.
I'd agree with you, gabriellebelle that he's being a bit stalkly, but I don't think Angel has the wherewithal to recognize the fact. I believe that he really does believe it is because he honestly loves her (rather than a self-deception).
I mean he has come to Sunnydale to help her (and stayed beyond when it was prudent to move on - See the Wishverse) so he wasn't all about 'stalking her'.
As with everything with Angel/Angelus/Liam ... it is kept vague and ambiguous.
He was clearly fixated on her throughout most of S2 but I don’t think he was particularly drawn to her “badness.”
I agree, I saw his ongoing interest in Darla as mostly being there because of past history with her. I don't think he would have been all that interested if Darla had been some random vampire who had approached him without all of those memories attached.
He never seemed remotely tempted by Lilah or Faith's advances, so I can't say that I saw "bad girls" as a type for him. His main romantic relationships were with Buffy and Cordelia once he had his soul back, so I saw him as being truthful with Buffy there
I'm with you.harsens_robFebruary 26 2011, 07:39:24 UTC
I agree, agree, agree.
If Darla had been random vampire, he would have staked her without a second thought. It was because it was Darla that caused him some sort of cognizant dissonance.
Which isn't his fault, but a human reaction. He really thought he was over the bad-girl and was wanting a 'fresh start' with a 'good girl'.
But Humanity is very rarely that ... delineated. I think, with some fans, Angel is judged far more harshly than they would judge Spike, Buffy or themselves in this situation.
2. Xanders - I’ve seen this episode so, so many times but I still burst out laughing every time he starts multiplying the math wrong in his head. Hilarious!
3. He’s being truthful - he was most invested in Darla when she was either carrying his child or showing more “goodness” during The Trial. He was clearly fixated on her throughout most of S2 but I don’t think he was particularly drawn to her “badness.”
4. No, he was right - I don’t think he was ever in love with Darla. He doesn’t miss her at all when she leaves in S2 and although I think he clearly had feelings for her, he deals with her death very easily in S3 (in comparison to the 3 months he takes away after Buffy’s passing). I think they bonded most over their love of Connor but when infected with his soul, even Darla decides that her son is the ( ... )
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2. Same here! I also love his running out of the library!
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Whether or not it was appropriate for him to make any contact with her whilst they were on a “break” is an entirely different issue, IMO, but I don’t think it means Angel was “stalking her.” If I tell an ex-girlfriend I need a break from the relationship and she walks up to me on the street I wouldn’t accuse her of stalking me, even if she admitted she had went looking for me because she was concerned for some reason.
Is it possible we’re interpreting “tracking” differently? When I hear that word I think of somebody saying “I’m glad I tracked you down” or, in other words, “I’m glad I found you.” Doesn’t Buffy often say she “tracked a demon” down when she’s on patrol? If anything, I’d say it’s proof Angel hadn’t been ( ... )
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I mean, if the character didn't have a history of stalking her, I wouldn't be so quick to assume as such. But...Angel stalks. He wanders in through Buffy's bedroom window. He tracks her. That's what he does. I don't see the need to give him the benefit of the doubt in this particular case.
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Ah! Well I think that's probably why we interpret this differently because I do think he means it in that specific instance. When I think of “tracking” I think of all those times in AtS when we see him hunting down somebody by smelling their blood, talking to informants, following a body trail etc. I don’t think of it as him keeping a watchful eye on someone.
He specifically says "it's a dangerous time", but it's no more dangerous than it had been at the end of the last episode when Buffy called for a break.
IMO, he was probably getting agitated sitting around in his mansion thinking that Buffy could be in some kind of danger. I think he was trying to respect her wishes at the end of the last episode but I’m sure he was concerned.
Why's he approaching her then?
Well, why approach her at all? If he'd really been stalking her for a period of time ( ... )
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But just to clarify one thing.
Well, why approach her at all? If he'd really been stalking her for a period of time why would he decide to go speak to her then when he'd been happy spying from a distance?
It almost doesn't matter to me. It's ambiguous, to be sure, but it's creepy regardless. If a homegirl of mine called a break with her boyfriend and the dude started checking on her in such a manner, I'd think he were being a creeper. You were specifically challenging the "stalker" label, though, so that was a bit outside the bounds of the debate to bring in. :)
I don't think it's unreasonable to think that he'd been stalking her, noticed she was looking upset about something (the essence of the demon thing), and so decided to approach her to see what was up.
I can see what you're saying, however, if he were stalking her like all those other times why wouldn't they just show it?But they did. ( ... )
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I mean he has come to Sunnydale to help her (and stayed beyond when it was prudent to move on - See the Wishverse) so he wasn't all about 'stalking her'.
As with everything with Angel/Angelus/Liam ... it is kept vague and ambiguous.
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I agree, I saw his ongoing interest in Darla as mostly being there because of past history with her. I don't think he would have been all that interested if Darla had been some random vampire who had approached him without all of those memories attached.
He never seemed remotely tempted by Lilah or Faith's advances, so I can't say that I saw "bad girls" as a type for him. His main romantic relationships were with Buffy and Cordelia once he had his soul back, so I saw him as being truthful with Buffy there
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If Darla had been random vampire, he would have staked her without a second thought. It was because it was Darla that caused him some sort of cognizant dissonance.
Which isn't his fault, but a human reaction. He really thought he was over the bad-girl and was wanting a 'fresh start' with a 'good girl'.
But Humanity is very rarely that ... delineated. I think, with some fans, Angel is judged far more harshly than they would judge Spike, Buffy or themselves in this situation.
Just My View.
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