Buffy's Choice

[gabrielleabelle]

This post is a no comics zone. Don't mention the comics in the comments, please.I feel I have to address something because I've noticed it a lot lately, and it's making me do that raised eyebrow thing which grows uncomfortable after a while

Comments

[shipperx]

I don't know how definitively Buffy 'chose' in Chosen. She made a certain choice in that specific time and that place, but she was also quite clear that she wasn't making long term decisions about commitment and ever afters.

::shrug::

[gabrielleabelle]

Ah, let me quote my post:

"Of course, the extent and nature of Buffy's feelings for Spike are always up for discussion. However, can we please stop pulling an Eeyore and declaring that Buffy would always choose Angel over Spike when...she didn't."

[shipperx]

I don't know what you even want me to say to that. Should we all be Tigger?

[gabrielleabelle]

You...don't have to say anything?

Now I'm confused. The post is about one thing in particular: people saying that Buffy will always choose Angel over Spike.

I provide the lone canon example where Buffy has a choice and points out that she chooses Spike.

If you want to continue saying that she'll always choose Angel then...feel free, but it's against canon.

[shipperx]

I didn't say that she chose Angel. I didn't say she definitively chose anyone.

And maybe I want to be Roo.

[gabrielleabelle]

I didn't say that she chose Angel. I didn't say she definitively chose anyone.

I think we're working off different meanings of "chose".

[shipperx]

Perhaps so.

But, hey, your journal. I bow to your definition and parameters for discussion.

[gabrielleabelle]

Well, you seem to be taking it as "she finally once and for all choose Spike to be the love of her life" which I thought was addressed with the part of the post I quoted you.

However, that's not how I'm taking the word. Instead, I'm taking it very literally. In EoD/Chosen, Buffy had a choice: let Angel stay and snuggle up to her honey (his suggestion) or send him away and snuggle up to Spike. She chose the latter. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean long-term commitment or anything of the sort. But it does mean that Buffy isn't always going to choose Angel because...she didn't. She chose Spike.

[shipperx]

I'm not sure though that we can boil it down to a simple choice without noting the variables involved. But I don't think it particularly matters at this point. People feel about these things how they feel about them. Everyone reached their personal conclusions somehow and they're always subject to change.

[gabrielleabelle]

Er...it's not a personal conclusion that Buffy chose Spike over Angel in this instance. That's canon.

What that choice means, as far as relationships and feelings and such, is up in the air - as, again, noted in the entry. But the statement that Buffy will always choose Angel is clearly false.

[shipperx]

She chose to give Spike the amulet as a 'champion'. Which, hey, not knocking that. Yay. But I'm not sure that that's the only form of 'choosing'. Buffy said many things in Chosen and in End of Days. There are things that are subject to interpretation. If you asked me at the time it aired, what I thought, I would give one answer. If you asked me two years later, I would have given a different one. If you ask me now, I would give a different one. I find these kinds of things are somewhat open to subjective interpretation (with a dose of having been subjected over many years to the shipping 'debates' maggie mentions.

I'm not sure that I actually believe there can be only one interpretation or that Joss only meant for there to be only one.

But hey, it's okay if you don't agree with me.

[gabrielleabelle]

She also chose to stay the night and cuddle with Spike (over being with Angel). If it was just about the champion thing, she could have given the amulet to Spike but asked Angel to stay. Angel was offering...everything. She turned him down...to go back to Spike.

Yes, a lot of canon is open to subjective interpretation (you'll rarely find a fan more open to that than me). For instance, exactly what all that means as far as Buffy's feelings for Spike is up in the air.

However, there's nothing subjective about saying that Buffy chose Spike over Angel at the end of S7. She chose him to be her champion. She chose him to go home to. She chose to sleep in his arms. All of this over Angel's explicit offer.

[shipperx]

I'll just refer back to Maggie's post re: Bangel rationalizations. I'd love to wholesale dismiss the Bangel rationalizations, but I don't know that I 100% buy that Joss didn't deliberately leave the door open to those rationalizations along with Spuffy interpretations in the hopes that two interpretations were easier for the fandom than actually putting his foot down. I tend to feel that there were some reassurances tossed to more than one ship under the confines under which the episode was filmed. I've made peace with that.

And, well, there's an elephant in the room exerting a bit of a gravitational influence on what I feel these days. But no more talk of that.

I'm just trying to say that people arrive at feelings their own way, and I think we need the room to allow people to feel differently.

[gabrielleabelle]

Please tell me where I've said that this is conclusive proof that Buffy loved Spike forever and ever. Or that her choosing him means Spike is her true love.

This post is pointing out actions. Those are indisputable in canon. Pointing out those canon facts doesn't disallow people from interpreting them any way they want, as I said in the original post and have repeated in just about every comment.

You appear to be taking this post as an imperative for all Spuffy fans to join the positive side of the ship. It's not. Its intent is just what it says on the tin: Pointing out that saying that Buffy will always choose Angel over Spike is canonically incorrect.

[shipperx]

White flag.

[gabrielleabelle]

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