Re: Sob three commentsfyi_iamaspyAugust 6 2010, 02:18:55 UTC
Thank you for commenting! I don't know if you're a part of the rp or not, so if you need me to clarify anything, just ask.
I need some things clarified myself- and sorry if I'm a bit herp and derp right now, I'm feeling a bit under the weather. Are you asking just for more description in posts? Or for Spy to be more relateable? Usually when Spy isn't relateable, I've noticed they're video posts, which... I would tl;dr, but it's not usually the community too and I feel awkward going on about Spy's thoughts when the other person's post are something like:
Spy you're a jackass.
Or something like that haha, and I don't want to be the writer tl;dring in the quick comm when everyone else is giving me one-liners. :B
Uhhh I am so out of it I am going to bullet some things so i don't forget to reply to them. Please tell me if I miss anything, I'm not feeling the best right now: -I'm not sure which crit you're referring to, but the ones on the chan are usually from people who generally can't relate to Spy no matter how much I explain- the other one on the board is more about me being a spur of the moment troll and it not going well. -I'm really afraid of bringing Spy's insecurities more to the forefront because I feel at times he's one of the most weak and flawed characters of the cast. I usually have a tendency to overflaw my characters and a lot of the cast have stronger characters so it usually makes Spy overly fail, and I've tried not to make him look super fail. -Spy's aware of some of his insecurities, but not all of them. I think I've tl;dred about that in his headcanon post, but he's very fifties man and even if he recognizes them, he doesn't give them much recognition and tries to ignore them for the most part. He usually only gives his problems much thought if they're start really hurting him- like his paranoia and taking off the mask, and right now he keeps stuffing that away and thinking "I'll deal with it later." -I think Rengie is always relateble is because he's always so sweet while Spy is a pain HAHA -If you're not in the RP, you don't really see much of Spy's interactions with his boss, who is a big business owner but a communist- he's richish but tends to give his money away mostly, and Spy often voices his opinions on his opinions of the bourgeoisie etc. Politiian-wise, well... Atia doesn't really have a government. \/(._.)\/ I've tried to deal with his whole not having to deal with serious relationships in logs with Rengie, and his friendship problems with Bsnipes- his other close friendship, with Pip Bernadotte, has less of his thoughts on friends and responsibilities because he's a fellow mercenary, he's told him little, and it sort of reminds him of friendships he's had in the past. It might get a bit more complicated when he tells him more things and if they ever have to rely on each other.
I always try to be the show, not tell sort of writer, but I am guessing I need to tell more. I'm sorry I'm sort of hurr right now but I'm thinking you mean for me to add more tl;dr, right? I can do that! You might not see me doing that on the amatomnes community since it's supposed to be short, but I can definitely add more. I'm so glad you like him as a character/his characterization and this crit is mostly about you just wanting more :') if you're a part of amat you probably don't want to unanon but just somehow find a way to message me and I will tl;dr at you all night long, and then some.
Re: Sob three commentsfyi_iamaspyAugust 6 2010, 03:07:19 UTC
I follow Spy from the chan mostly, so I haven't seen the threads with his boss, no. But I didn't mean that Spy wasn't relateable! I was more saying I can see how people who don't know or follow all his headcanon could find him that way, from what they see. I don't know if I'm telling you to tell more, all my English teachers were always saying that telling is bad, bad, bad. But maybe show more of his mental processes and struggles or something like that?
As a fellow roleplayer, I can tell you to never be afraid to have a character be too flawed. The more we see a character dealing with his flaws and managing in spite of them, the stronger he looks as a character, not weaker! Think of RED Engie's jealousy and insecurity or RED Scout's family issues or BLU Engie's slight insanity... the strength comes from how they deal with those things and get on with life, not from not having them at all. (The exceptions would be those characters who dwell on their issues forever or never try to deal with them and become angstbags instead, which I already know Spy isn't and you're definitely too good of a writer to suddenly make him that way anyway. x])
I just find Spy to be really fascinating, and it's his very flaws that make him that way. Or maybe flaws is the wrong word to use here. Insecurities? His fear that he's not the best Spy around and of aging and trusting and ending up alone forever... all of them are things that resonate with the reader because we've all felt that way sometimes. Maybe it's the way it's carried out? The age thing for example, whenever people mock him about it, he gets angry, but that seems to be as far as it ever goes. I know from reading your headcanon posts that this is a big issue for him and maybe he'd go complain at Engie later? But I don't know if it's ever been officially fleshed out IC. The people on the chan who can't understand Spy are probably due to this? They read your explanations but don't see it clearly in his thoughts or actions in actual interactions... I hope this makes sense.
The post I was reading was the one on the tf2board where his methods of trolling for lack of a better phrase were being discussed. And I thought, why not have him dealing with that IC, too? Frustrated about how his plans never work out and why he can't seem to do any better... and wanting to do better, wanting to finally get that one-up on everyone else for once, trying for it, even if he keeps failing. Spy as a character trying to improve himself, his plotting skills, his ability to read people, or something like that? He may be already doing that, it wouldn't make sense if he weren't, only it's not ever mentioned officially IC, so us readers can't see him doing that so it looks like he fails, takes his lumps, and that's the end of it always, which from your posts and comments about it, it's obviously not. But the whole issue seems to have just been dropped IC and I was sad. :C
This comment is getting so tl;dr, so I'll stop now. But I hope this helps somehow? And I hope you feel better soon!
Re: Sob three commentsfyi_iamaspyAugust 6 2010, 03:37:11 UTC
haha, I wish I could write out parts of Spy when he's just on his lonesome and going through his thoughts, but that wouldn't be rping. He's not the type to complain to Engie- he doesn't like the fact Engie knows, or really anyone, and he'd rather get disgruntled and try to ignore it.
He's hard that way, he likes to ignore all of his faults, because if he dwells on them it makes them real- he has been trying to get others to do his dirty work, like BLU Pyro. I'll try to address him doing that more. :>
But thank you! And thanks for the crit, I'll try to flesh out things more, and keep posting logs on the chan.
Re: Sob three commentsfyi_iamaspyAugust 6 2010, 03:53:14 UTC
Nothing says you can't write out parts of Spy like that! And I hope you do, I'd love to see them. And there are tons of ways you could... like open ended logs where people could come in when Spy's thinking life, the universe, and everything over while eating alone at a restaurant somewhere. Or trying really hard not to think about life, the universe, and everything at a jazz club (or something?) but failing, and it could be an open log where people could stop by and make conversation or piss him off more when he's already disgruntled and dwelling even if he doesn't want to be... there are tons of possibilities. Naturally he wouldn't just do this out of nowhere, but I think you get what I mean. x]
I just see all this potential and thought-out character here and all these people on the chan and places just dismissing Spy and it makes me go :C
I'm glad you're taking all this graciously though too, so thanks for that!
Re: Sob three commentsfyi_iamaspyAugust 6 2010, 04:26:53 UTC
Well, it would be nice- I am just always trying to be mindful of others, and sometimes I hesitate in putting too much self-centered tl;dr.
haha, I'm okay though with not pleasing everyone. (People on the chan and places? There aren't other places, right? D:>) Just comes with the job of trying to write out someone who is an asshole on the surface but not too bad on the inside.
You're welcome! I always appreciate crit, even if it can drive me crazy sometimes, it makes me better in the end. :>
I need some things clarified myself- and sorry if I'm a bit herp and derp right now, I'm feeling a bit under the weather. Are you asking just for more description in posts? Or for Spy to be more relateable? Usually when Spy isn't relateable, I've noticed they're video posts, which... I would tl;dr, but it's not usually the community too and I feel awkward going on about Spy's thoughts when the other person's post are something like:
Spy you're a jackass.
Or something like that haha, and I don't want to be the writer tl;dring in the quick comm when everyone else is giving me one-liners. :B
Uhhh I am so out of it I am going to bullet some things so i don't forget to reply to them. Please tell me if I miss anything, I'm not feeling the best right now:
-I'm not sure which crit you're referring to, but the ones on the chan are usually from people who generally can't relate to Spy no matter how much I explain- the other one on the board is more about me being a spur of the moment troll and it not going well.
-I'm really afraid of bringing Spy's insecurities more to the forefront because I feel at times he's one of the most weak and flawed characters of the cast. I usually have a tendency to overflaw my characters and a lot of the cast have stronger characters so it usually makes Spy overly fail, and I've tried not to make him look super fail.
-Spy's aware of some of his insecurities, but not all of them. I think I've tl;dred about that in his headcanon post, but he's very fifties man and even if he recognizes them, he doesn't give them much recognition and tries to ignore them for the most part. He usually only gives his problems much thought if they're start really hurting him- like his paranoia and taking off the mask, and right now he keeps stuffing that away and thinking "I'll deal with it later."
-I think Rengie is always relateble is because he's always so sweet while Spy is a pain HAHA
-If you're not in the RP, you don't really see much of Spy's interactions with his boss, who is a big business owner but a communist- he's richish but tends to give his money away mostly, and Spy often voices his opinions on his opinions of the bourgeoisie etc. Politiian-wise, well... Atia doesn't really have a government. \/(._.)\/ I've tried to deal with his whole not having to deal with serious relationships in logs with Rengie, and his friendship problems with Bsnipes- his other close friendship, with Pip Bernadotte, has less of his thoughts on friends and responsibilities because he's a fellow mercenary, he's told him little, and it sort of reminds him of friendships he's had in the past. It might get a bit more complicated when he tells him more things and if they ever have to rely on each other.
I always try to be the show, not tell sort of writer, but I am guessing I need to tell more. I'm sorry I'm sort of hurr right now but I'm thinking you mean for me to add more tl;dr, right? I can do that! You might not see me doing that on the amatomnes community since it's supposed to be short, but I can definitely add more. I'm so glad you like him as a character/his characterization and this crit is mostly about you just wanting more :') if you're a part of amat you probably don't want to unanon but just somehow find a way to message me and I will tl;dr at you all night long, and then some.
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As a fellow roleplayer, I can tell you to never be afraid to have a character be too flawed. The more we see a character dealing with his flaws and managing in spite of them, the stronger he looks as a character, not weaker! Think of RED Engie's jealousy and insecurity or RED Scout's family issues or BLU Engie's slight insanity... the strength comes from how they deal with those things and get on with life, not from not having them at all. (The exceptions would be those characters who dwell on their issues forever or never try to deal with them and become angstbags instead, which I already know Spy isn't and you're definitely too good of a writer to suddenly make him that way anyway. x])
I just find Spy to be really fascinating, and it's his very flaws that make him that way. Or maybe flaws is the wrong word to use here. Insecurities? His fear that he's not the best Spy around and of aging and trusting and ending up alone forever... all of them are things that resonate with the reader because we've all felt that way sometimes. Maybe it's the way it's carried out? The age thing for example, whenever people mock him about it, he gets angry, but that seems to be as far as it ever goes. I know from reading your headcanon posts that this is a big issue for him and maybe he'd go complain at Engie later? But I don't know if it's ever been officially fleshed out IC. The people on the chan who can't understand Spy are probably due to this? They read your explanations but don't see it clearly in his thoughts or actions in actual interactions... I hope this makes sense.
The post I was reading was the one on the tf2board where his methods of trolling for lack of a better phrase were being discussed. And I thought, why not have him dealing with that IC, too? Frustrated about how his plans never work out and why he can't seem to do any better... and wanting to do better, wanting to finally get that one-up on everyone else for once, trying for it, even if he keeps failing. Spy as a character trying to improve himself, his plotting skills, his ability to read people, or something like that? He may be already doing that, it wouldn't make sense if he weren't, only it's not ever mentioned officially IC, so us readers can't see him doing that so it looks like he fails, takes his lumps, and that's the end of it always, which from your posts and comments about it, it's obviously not. But the whole issue seems to have just been dropped IC and I was sad. :C
This comment is getting so tl;dr, so I'll stop now. But I hope this helps somehow? And I hope you feel better soon!
Reply
He's hard that way, he likes to ignore all of his faults, because if he dwells on them it makes them real- he has been trying to get others to do his dirty work, like BLU Pyro. I'll try to address him doing that more. :>
But thank you! And thanks for the crit, I'll try to flesh out things more, and keep posting logs on the chan.
Reply
I just see all this potential and thought-out character here and all these people on the chan and places just dismissing Spy and it makes me go :C
I'm glad you're taking all this graciously though too, so thanks for that!
Reply
haha, I'm okay though with not pleasing everyone. (People on the chan and places? There aren't other places, right? D:>) Just comes with the job of trying to write out someone who is an asshole on the surface but not too bad on the inside.
You're welcome! I always appreciate crit, even if it can drive me crazy sometimes, it makes me better in the end. :>
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