~.: At the risk of starting a flame war/argument/what have you on LJ, I'm going to ask how someone can be pro-choice and anti-death-penalty. Please, someone, explain to me how this makes sense. :/
I cut this comment down alot because I realized I was writing an essay. =o=
Yeah, my opinion on the death penalty is constantly changing too. I just have a hard time separating a glob of cells from the life that it's going to be, but then, I think the same way of bugs and plant sprouts. So it could just be my own convictions on the subject. I just don't understand how it's okay to kill something whose only crime is existing along with the those whose crime is actually a crime. In the cases of rape and danger to the mother's overall wellbeing, I don't feel so strongly, because it's a necessary evil in my opinion -- some sacrifices have to be made. But in the case of a woman having an abortion simply because a pregnancy doesn't happen to fit her plans ...?
My feelings on abortion are basically this: don't want a baby, don't have sex. If you get pregnant and have the means and resources to take care of a baby, you should keep it; if you don't, it's a gray are and I have personal mixed feelings. If you physically, mentally, or emotionally cannot raise a baby, then it would probably be best to terminate, or do the Juno method of adoption. If a woman was raped or her life is in danger, then I think it's for her to say and I feel wrong to judge one way or the other. I just don't think it's right to destroy life, whether it's human life or animal life or plant life. So that probably influences my decisions. Like Layne, I'm pro-responsibility. Take care of yourself and do what you can to avoid such hard choices as abortion (because I realize it's not an easy choice, but I think there is alot of non-education about it where some women think it's just like getting a haircut -- they go to sleep with a problem and wake up and it's gone, and for the women who go through it, they would say it's nothing like that and are still dealing with the emotional or physical consequences of it years later).
Not only that, but men really get left out of termination decisions, when it's their child too, and I think that's almost as wrong as forcing a woman to bear the brunt of a pregnancy on her own without her partner.
It is complicated, and I hate it. I just wish people weren't always so focused on killing things they didn't like. :/
No offense, but "pro-responsibility" doesn't really mean anything to me.
I mean, being "pro-responsibility" as you just described it means that women who were raped, or women who did want to have a baby and discovered during their pregnancy that the child has serious mental or physical disability that they can't care for, for whatever reason, or that there is some serious threat to the mother's life are being irresponsible in some ways. There are situations that can't be helped. I also have noticed there's this rampant and incorrect assumption that the majority of women who seek abortions are using it as some kind of birth control, and that's just not the case. It's not. I'd rather a bundle of cells be flushed out of someone's system than have a child brought up in an environment where it isn't wanted or won't be properly cared for. And honestly, there are women who do everything in their power to not have a child - they're on the pill, they make their boyfriend use a condom, they use spermicidal jelly - and shit happens.
Think of it this way - if someone was stupid enough to have unprotected sex, do you really want them raising a child? I don't. There are a lot of unpleasant implications.
Also, I take enormous offense at your closing statement, that people are "always so focused on killing things they don't like." A woman who gets an abortion isn't killing something she doesn't like. She's making an extremely difficult decision about her body and her life, and the life that's inside her. Don't for one second assume that women make this decision arbitrarily. Women who actually need to have abortions are never that flippant about it.
I think I need to clarify what I meant. I wasn't implying that women who get pregnant as a result of circumstances outside their control (e.g. women who are raped) are being irresponsible. All I mean is that I think both men and women should do everything in their power to prevent things from happening that they don't want to happen/aren't ready to cope with. Firstly, I think that if a person doesn't want a child, they shouldn't be having sex. I don't see how anyone can be surprised when a baby/fetus/fertilized egg is the result of pretty much the only thing that causes it (outside of a laboratory). However, I know that's alot to ask of people, so my personal feeling is that if one is going to have sex, they should be very cautious, and be sure they are physically, mentally, emotionally, financially, and spiritually ready to handle whatever consequences may arise from sex, whether one is confronted with the choice to have or not have a child or whatever those consequences may be. If a person doesn't think they'd be able to handle the choice to abort or not, they shouldn't be setting themselves up for the potential to have to make that decision. I know abortion is never an easy choice for a woman. I also know that it leaves long-lasting effects on people besides the woman making the choice, and obviously the woman herself.
And while the majority of women who get abortions probably aren't going in there with their minds at ease, I'm willing to bet there are women who do use it as birth control, and really feel no remorse or sadness or sense of loss. That's fine for them. It saddens me, but it's none of my business, it's their lives, their choices.
I never meant to offend anyone. There are many (at least three) women in my life now that have had abortions, and I don't love a single one of them any less. I support their opportunity to choose, even if I didn't/don't agree with the choice they made. For one of them I know how hard it was on everyone, and it's a choice I would never want to wish on anyone. If I had one wish, I would wish for a society that was less hostile to children. An adoption system that afforded women a much more physically and emotionally healthy choice in circumstances of unwanted pregnancies, and a medical system that didn't cater to the lies of teenagers (liveaction.org -- not as much propaganda as it looks at first glance). There is so much reform needed, and I don't know that we'll ever get it. For now, all I can do is hope that people treat themselves and others with respect and dignity, and trust that they really are making the choices they feel are best for them in the long-run.
It doesn't, because we're animals too, and we need to eat. When it comes to killing one another, that's something way outside nature. Animals rarely kill members of their own species on purpose. When they fight, they fight to maim in order to boost their own standing in the hierarchy, which affords them more resources (food, territory, mates).
Yeah, my opinion on the death penalty is constantly changing too. I just have a hard time separating a glob of cells from the life that it's going to be, but then, I think the same way of bugs and plant sprouts. So it could just be my own convictions on the subject. I just don't understand how it's okay to kill something whose only crime is existing along with the those whose crime is actually a crime. In the cases of rape and danger to the mother's overall wellbeing, I don't feel so strongly, because it's a necessary evil in my opinion -- some sacrifices have to be made. But in the case of a woman having an abortion simply because a pregnancy doesn't happen to fit her plans ...?
My feelings on abortion are basically this: don't want a baby, don't have sex. If you get pregnant and have the means and resources to take care of a baby, you should keep it; if you don't, it's a gray are and I have personal mixed feelings. If you physically, mentally, or emotionally cannot raise a baby, then it would probably be best to terminate, or do the Juno method of adoption. If a woman was raped or her life is in danger, then I think it's for her to say and I feel wrong to judge one way or the other. I just don't think it's right to destroy life, whether it's human life or animal life or plant life. So that probably influences my decisions. Like Layne, I'm pro-responsibility. Take care of yourself and do what you can to avoid such hard choices as abortion (because I realize it's not an easy choice, but I think there is alot of non-education about it where some women think it's just like getting a haircut -- they go to sleep with a problem and wake up and it's gone, and for the women who go through it, they would say it's nothing like that and are still dealing with the emotional or physical consequences of it years later).
Not only that, but men really get left out of termination decisions, when it's their child too, and I think that's almost as wrong as forcing a woman to bear the brunt of a pregnancy on her own without her partner.
It is complicated, and I hate it. I just wish people weren't always so focused on killing things they didn't like. :/
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I mean, being "pro-responsibility" as you just described it means that women who were raped, or women who did want to have a baby and discovered during their pregnancy that the child has serious mental or physical disability that they can't care for, for whatever reason, or that there is some serious threat to the mother's life are being irresponsible in some ways. There are situations that can't be helped. I also have noticed there's this rampant and incorrect assumption that the majority of women who seek abortions are using it as some kind of birth control, and that's just not the case. It's not. I'd rather a bundle of cells be flushed out of someone's system than have a child brought up in an environment where it isn't wanted or won't be properly cared for. And honestly, there are women who do everything in their power to not have a child - they're on the pill, they make their boyfriend use a condom, they use spermicidal jelly - and shit happens.
Think of it this way - if someone was stupid enough to have unprotected sex, do you really want them raising a child? I don't. There are a lot of unpleasant implications.
Also, I take enormous offense at your closing statement, that people are "always so focused on killing things they don't like." A woman who gets an abortion isn't killing something she doesn't like. She's making an extremely difficult decision about her body and her life, and the life that's inside her. Don't for one second assume that women make this decision arbitrarily. Women who actually need to have abortions are never that flippant about it.
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And while the majority of women who get abortions probably aren't going in there with their minds at ease, I'm willing to bet there are women who do use it as birth control, and really feel no remorse or sadness or sense of loss. That's fine for them. It saddens me, but it's none of my business, it's their lives, their choices.
I never meant to offend anyone. There are many (at least three) women in my life now that have had abortions, and I don't love a single one of them any less. I support their opportunity to choose, even if I didn't/don't agree with the choice they made. For one of them I know how hard it was on everyone, and it's a choice I would never want to wish on anyone. If I had one wish, I would wish for a society that was less hostile to children. An adoption system that afforded women a much more physically and emotionally healthy choice in circumstances of unwanted pregnancies, and a medical system that didn't cater to the lies of teenagers (liveaction.org -- not as much propaganda as it looks at first glance). There is so much reform needed, and I don't know that we'll ever get it. For now, all I can do is hope that people treat themselves and others with respect and dignity, and trust that they really are making the choices they feel are best for them in the long-run.
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