load it, check it, quick - rewrite it

[furiosity]

0001 - A reminder! Don't Like Don't Read is only a logical and reasonable defence if the person hasn't actually read it already or had ample warning they wouldn't like it but read it anyway (i.e. "don't complain about Mpreg in a fic if there's a clear label on the header" = reasonable. "if you don't like Mpreg, don't read it!" when NO labels are

Comments

[coffeejunkii]

is it actually legal in japan? i'm asking because i read a book recently--lawrence lessig's free culture--which gave me the impression that it's also copyright infringement in japan, technically, but tolerated for multiple reasons. but the book is a few years old, so maybe the legal situation has changed?

i always warn for mpreg :D.

[furiosity]

Hm, you know, I sort of keep hearing (in the past year or so since I became involved in Japanese fandoms) from people who seem to Know Better that it's legal but I could be wrong about all derivative work being legal, maybe it only applies to specific media? But Comiket, where vast quantities of fan-produced doujinshi are sold every year, is one of the biggest industry events in Japan -- if infringing work were merely tolerated, I somehow doubt this would still happen. :? IDK.

I would warn for mpreg if I ever wrote it! :D

[coffeejunkii]

lessig does talk about comiket and kind of marvels that it takes place. iirc, he muses that the realization that fanworks ultimately up profits of the original plus a general unwillingness to put in the labor to prosecute fanartists results in tolerating the doujinshi industry. his book is available under a creative commons license here, btw, in case you want to read more [his books is about recent changes in american copyright and how that infringes upon people's possibility to create transformative works. it's a good read].

[furiosity]

Oh, thank you! I will definitely read it. ^_^ I've amended my post to link to your above comment re: its legality. In general, I think if a (canon) creator and/or her publishers are okay with fan-creators selling their works, that's also okay even if the law disagrees. But with HP, it's like, JKR actually told us, write it, draw it, just don't sell it, and keep the porn away from the kiddies. That's pretty generous considering the likes of Anne McCaffrey and Robin Hobb, so.

[pennswoods]

and I think fanartists' work in non-visual media is generally less infringing than that of ficcers

By this, are you referring to wrockers as fanartists? Sorry, I may be misreading. And with reference to wrockers, how do you feel about the distribution and selling of this type of fanwork en masse for profit?

[furiosity]

I don't like that wrock is sold/distributed for profit. Wrock actually is not on the same level as fanart because it actually uses language invented by JKR, which is infringing. I generally don't think ANY fanwork should ever make a profit for the creator.

[elizardbits]

0001 - SEE ICON

I did not like it after 3 pages, so I did not buy it.

This is why I downloaded it. I would rather set my money on fire or donate it to the Westboro Baptists (ok maybe not) than increase the sales on those vapid, cretinous books.

0011 - IDK, I am also somewhat ambivalent, but I think my main interest focuses on how good the art itself actually IS. If it's some wretched hed pastede on yey crap, then I think it's pretty sad and DNW-worthy.

It also depends on where they're getting their characterizations from, I guess. Are the drawings based on the actors in the movies? Or are they based more on the well-described and detailed canon characters? I have seen both, and tend to prefer the latter.

plz note: i have no perceptible artistic skills other than that piggy i forced everyone to admire that one time. NEVERTHELESS, MY OPINIONS, LET ME SHOW YOU THEM.

[furiosity]

I totally downloaded Twilight for mocking purposes last week, and I don't feel the least bit guilty about it! I have since deleted it happily and will never read past chapter 10 unless forced at gunpoint.

For me it's not really a question of whether it's good or not, it's just we put "no money is being made" disclaimers on our fan works for a reason. Once we start making money, all disclaimers in fandom become suspect. :\

[elizardbits]

YES, I MEANT TO CLARIFY BUT YOU ARE A COMMENT-REPLYING NINJA OR SOMETHING.

I mean, I think it's creepy and wrong no matter what. But I can only work up an acceptable amount of flail and outrage if the art for sale is really, really bad.

I am excited to download the latest vile movie, ngl. There will be alcohol involved.

[furiosity]

Yeah, for me it's not so much OMG OUTRAGE FLAIL regardless of quality but rather "um, is this going to make JKR's lawyers come after fandom again?" The Time of the C&Ds was not fun, but I don't think there's anyone even left in fandom who actually remembers that time (I came to HP about a year after it happened). :|

omg you are such a dirty dirty thief. i wish there were fan movies made not for profit. that would be AWESOME. Too bad movies are expensive to make.

[silentauror]

All of those disclaimers we post about the characters not being ours and not for profit? Yeah, makes the last not really kosher for me. Same deal for selling fanfic, which is also how I feel about licensed fanfic, such as all of that George Lucas-sponsored shit for fiction* that exists in the SW universe. And much of the ST licensed fanfic, too. It should either all be legal or all be illegal, period.

*exception: Timothy Zahn and his brilliant trilogy.

[furiosity]

Yeah, the disclaimers are my biggest issue with this sort of thing, too, but I'm not 100% sure if the art in this book is all-new (i.e. it was never posted with a disclaimer saying no money/no infringement) and I'm not familiar with the artist, so I can't say. I just feel like if an artist posts a piece online saying "this is not for profit" and then turns around and makes a profit, then the disclaimer is a lie, and it draws into question every other disclaimer in fandom. :\

[silentauror]

It's about more than an individual disclaimer as I see it, though. It's the fact that on principle, we make disclaimers acknowledging that our creation is riding on the coattails of someone else's, i.e., the original author/universe creator's. We acknowledge that what we do is semi-shady and semi-illegal and we state firmly that it is a recreational activity ONLY and not for profit. To then go and sell something for profit that is the exact same sort of thing doesn't work for me.

[furiosity]

I don't even think fanfic is merely semi-shady/illegal; I think it's just plain old shady and illegal (at least, I've never felt I had a God-given right to distribute my fic on the internet) -- but I think that as long as we're not actually taking money for JKR's creation, we're okay, even JKR said so. I am kind of worried that if fanart sales go mainstream, JKR might not be so benevolent. :|

[jamie2109]

0011 - I am with you on this one. Actually would adore the book myself but am not comfortable with it being sold for profit. But then I am not sure how much of that is because ficcers don't have the same option. eh, call me a cow. moo.

[furiosity]

Yeah, "uncomfortable" is about how I'd describe it for me. For me it has more to do with my rather (old-fashioned?) view that the fandom community and doing business are incompatible.