Vegetarianism
So I was reading this argument on ONTD where someone had posted something with Brooke Shields going on and on about how she was going to select her own animals to make into a fur coat, etc., etc., and this obviously devolved into a debate about animal rights. Eventually someone, naturally, brought up vegetarianism..
wickedlove
What is this comment, seriously.
Do you not get that animals are killed for those fur coats?
tres_francais
Did you know that some are also killed for their meat, which I eat?
vangogh_ourears
This comparison is always laughable. Food is a necessity, humans have evolved to need the essential amino acids meat provides. Fur is not a necessity unless you're an Inuit with no other means of protection from the cold. Humans are the only organisms who kill for luxury. It's wrong, no matter what stupid fashion argument you use.
tres_francais
Food is a necessity. Meat isn't -- vegans, anyone?
mercurialness
While not a necessity, the fact remains that meat is more nutritionally sound and complete than its alternatives and that most vegans, unless participating in a carefully constructed and monitored diet, don't get all of the complete amino acids or proteins that they need. Not to mention vitamins that while available in supplemental form as well as used to fortify some non-meat products have to be sought out rather than assumed to be included.
So while the argument against eating meat for nutritional purposes can be reasonably made, I think the opposite argument can still be reasonably made for the sake of people who can't afford the more expensive alternatives and the requisite supplements or just simply don't want to because a simpler diet works better for their lifestyle.
What we wear has no need to be nutritionally sound so therefore there's no reasonable argument that fur is even a remotely necessary fabric when we have so many other options that do the trick without the torture. I agree eating meat is a very gray area with room for arguments either way, but I just don't see anything but a thick black line when it comes to wearing the pelts of animals.
..Which made me lol, because this is, of course, completely ridiculous. It's a very common misconception that a vegetarian/vegan diet is nutritionally incomplete, and anyone who has that opinion is obviously either stupid or ignorant. All you have to do is a TINY bit of research to know that not only is this not true, but that a vegetarian diet has actually been proven to be more healthy than an omnivorous one.
findochty
Fill me in, what magical amino acids does meat contain that humans can't get from plant sources? The eight amino acids that the human body can't produce are valine, leucine, phenylalanine, methionine, lysine, threonine, tryptophan, and isoleucine. Plant foods that contain ALL eight: Bananas, tomatoes, cabbage, cauliflower, corn, peas, cucumbers, brussels sprouts, eggplant, carrots, kale, okra, potatoes, summer squash, sweet potatoes, sunflower seeds, peanuts, sesame seeds, and beans.
Please stop spreading misinformation. If you're going to mention something non meat eaters might actually have a hard time getting you should go with vitamin B12, even though that really isn't an issue.
Anyway, yeah. I just thought it was good stuff. It bothers me a lot when people try to argue with me about this particular subject. It's ironic cause I actually had an argument EXACTLY like this on RC the other day, where somebody was trying to tell me that vegetarians were nutritionally deficient, which simply isn't true. You don't have to take vitamins or supplements at all - you just have to make sure you supplement your diet with appropriate plants and be very careful what you eat.
Bugs me so fucking much.
wickedlove
What is this comment, seriously.
Do you not get that animals are killed for those fur coats?
tres_francais
Did you know that some are also killed for their meat, which I eat?
vangogh_ourears
This comparison is always laughable. Food is a necessity, humans have evolved to need the essential amino acids meat provides. Fur is not a necessity unless you're an Inuit with no other means of protection from the cold. Humans are the only organisms who kill for luxury. It's wrong, no matter what stupid fashion argument you use.
tres_francais
Food is a necessity. Meat isn't -- vegans, anyone?
mercurialness
While not a necessity, the fact remains that meat is more nutritionally sound and complete than its alternatives and that most vegans, unless participating in a carefully constructed and monitored diet, don't get all of the complete amino acids or proteins that they need. Not to mention vitamins that while available in supplemental form as well as used to fortify some non-meat products have to be sought out rather than assumed to be included.
So while the argument against eating meat for nutritional purposes can be reasonably made, I think the opposite argument can still be reasonably made for the sake of people who can't afford the more expensive alternatives and the requisite supplements or just simply don't want to because a simpler diet works better for their lifestyle.
What we wear has no need to be nutritionally sound so therefore there's no reasonable argument that fur is even a remotely necessary fabric when we have so many other options that do the trick without the torture. I agree eating meat is a very gray area with room for arguments either way, but I just don't see anything but a thick black line when it comes to wearing the pelts of animals.
..Which made me lol, because this is, of course, completely ridiculous. It's a very common misconception that a vegetarian/vegan diet is nutritionally incomplete, and anyone who has that opinion is obviously either stupid or ignorant. All you have to do is a TINY bit of research to know that not only is this not true, but that a vegetarian diet has actually been proven to be more healthy than an omnivorous one.
findochty
Fill me in, what magical amino acids does meat contain that humans can't get from plant sources? The eight amino acids that the human body can't produce are valine, leucine, phenylalanine, methionine, lysine, threonine, tryptophan, and isoleucine. Plant foods that contain ALL eight: Bananas, tomatoes, cabbage, cauliflower, corn, peas, cucumbers, brussels sprouts, eggplant, carrots, kale, okra, potatoes, summer squash, sweet potatoes, sunflower seeds, peanuts, sesame seeds, and beans.
Please stop spreading misinformation. If you're going to mention something non meat eaters might actually have a hard time getting you should go with vitamin B12, even though that really isn't an issue.
Anyway, yeah. I just thought it was good stuff. It bothers me a lot when people try to argue with me about this particular subject. It's ironic cause I actually had an argument EXACTLY like this on RC the other day, where somebody was trying to tell me that vegetarians were nutritionally deficient, which simply isn't true. You don't have to take vitamins or supplements at all - you just have to make sure you supplement your diet with appropriate plants and be very careful what you eat.
Bugs me so fucking much.