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[frelling_tralk]

Eek it’s been quite a few months now since I’ve properly visited LJ, I’ve mostly been on Twitter this year and really lost track of this site I’m afraid, but I came across this article today and thought it was interesting after the many fandom debates there have been on this question

Buffy The Vampire Slayer creator would make Willow bisexual in

Comments

[infinitewhale]

Sometimes I wish I was less cynical. The way they went so overboard about the gay stuff makes me not buy this. It only reads to me like 'Oh, I totally would have done that if society could handle it!' Who was pressuring him? Certainly not the WB since they were worried about Will being gay, supposedly.

Then when he did those crappy comics, after the satsu publicity stunt, he again went out of his way to make it known Buffy is straight, y'all. Straight. Faith, who most see as bi, that wasn't explored in the comics, either.

[frelling_tralk]

For Joss to say that we weren’t ready for that back then doesn’t entirely make sense to me either, because most of the viewers were already assuming that Willow was meant to be bisexual and just fell in love with the person, the concept of bisexuality did exist back then and it wasn’t that big a deal. If anything it was the writers having Willow start to proclaim that she’s gay now that caused the most hated discussion and arguments from what I remember. The Kittens would have felt betrayed if season 7 had seen Willow go back to dating men though after everything, so I think that’s what Joss was thinking of when feeling the pressure to not make it look like they had meant for Willow to just be going through a phase and was back to dating guys after losing Tara in the way that she did

[infinitewhale]

the concept of bisexuality did exist back then and it wasn’t that big a deal. If anything it was the writers having Willow start to proclaim that she’s gay now that caused the most hated discussion and arguments from what I remember.

That's what I mean. It wasn't society. It was a certain part of the fanbase. Which, OK, I can understand that. W/T WAS a big thing for people, being one of the first lesbian relationships on US TV and all. I just don't like the wording used if that's what he meant. It wasn't society not being able to handle it. It was really just fan service when you get right down to it.

[frelling_tralk]

Yeah I don’t know, but surely if someone is homophobic then it won’t make much of a difference if Willow calls herself bisexual or gay, both would be equally unacceptable in their eyes? And wider society if you like were hardly clamouring for Willow to not be bisexual either, most viewers were far more bothered about how can Willow call herself gay when she’s obviously bi

I definitely think that Joss is thinking more in terms of not wanting to inadvertently undo the positive representation of Willow and Tara by having Willow go back to dating guys. People were already upset enough about Tara dying in the way that she did, so the writers must have felt a lot of pressure to end things on a positive note for Willow given that she was one of the earliest examples of a tv character coming out and dating another woman. Interesting really that Joss doesn’t mention the killing of Tara controversy at all when discussing their choice to make Willow gay instead of bi

[infinitewhale]

Yeah, I can see all that. I definitely remember some hubbub around the idea of Willow and Xander in S7. Thing is they were doing the gay now stuff before Tara even died.

Like I said, though, I'm just cynical about it. He's had plenty of time since to tap into that subject. He could have made Faith bi. He could have made Andrew bi. It's been nearly 17 years since the show ended and now out of the blue he says this stuff about what he shoulda woulda coulda have done when we all know he has zero intention of doing anything in the Buffyverse, reboot or whatever.

Even in the Buffy reboot comics at Boom where he has clout. Willow? Gay.

[frelling_tralk]

I do remember there being quite a few fandom discussions about Andrew as well after a lot of viewers had also originally seen him as bisexual. It’s curious for Joss to now blame the times because, as someone who was actually around in those times, Buffy viewers were constantly discussing this stuff even then and insisting that Willow should really be bisexual, the first time she said ‘gay now’ in Triangle caused sooo much discussion. It was generally concluded that it was the ME writers who just couldn’t conceive of a character coming out as anything other than gay or straight, whereas viewers were the ones getting annoyed because they had been picturing those characters as bisexual

[infinitewhale]

"For Joss to say that we weren’t ready for that back then doesn’t entirely make sense to me either, because most of the viewers were already assuming that Willow was meant to be bisexual and just fell in love with the person, the concept of bisexuality did exist back then and it wasn’t that big a deal."

YES THIS.

A lot of us bi people felt it just added to bi erasure.

SIGH

[txvoodoo]

ugh, that was me. Stupid lj! It didn't have me logged in.

[frelling_tralk]

I did think that that would have made more sense in a lot of ways, especially in light of Vampire Willow already being portrayed as bisexual, and it did seem like that’s what they were going for in New Moon Rising as well.

[author_by_night]

. Faith, who most see as bi, that wasn't explored in the comics, either.

I really don't get that. I watched season three with absolutely NO fandom experience, and I saw Faith as having a thing for Buffy, if nothing else. Apparently Eliza Dushku played it that way on purpose, but she didn't write her lines. Why not explore that instead of Satsu?

(I haven't read the comments so maybe I shouldn't have opinions, but from what I do know, that's how I feel.)

[infinitewhale]

Why not explore that instead of Satsu?

That's a big part of why I am cynical about Joss's comment. He had ample opportunity to explore bisexuality through Faith in the comics. He didn't.

As far as Buffy goes, that whole thing was so obviously a publicity stunt they didn't even try to do it seriously. Even the writer of it said it was meant to be a farce. To do that, they couldn't really have it happen with a known character like Faith or Willow any more than you can have a one night stand with Xander.