Re: You're Funny. Pt II
anonymous
October 1 2006, 22:39:36 UTC
Fool yourself, build up some rationalisation of why your selfish/sadistic acts are good and you can get away with it, you've always got some excuse to fall back on.
Like how the average person who lies is beneath you and doesn't deserve your help?
You see, I may judge but I judge based on a chain of reasoning, which I did fully explain.
You poorly explained your poor reasoning. Looking back, I see the following chain of thought: 1) Selfishness and sadism are the same thing 2) Everyone I've ever met except me is selfish 3) If you look outside the planet you might find some non-selfish people (?) 4) I haven't had my needs taken care of (Which is guess means there aren't enough selfless people around willing to give you stuff?) 5) When I tell people I want things, they don't want to help me
What you are doing there is making false statements with no attempt to back it up by connecting it to my words.
Solving the problem right here, baby.
I never said you attacked me. Another statement about me based on no quote from me.
Actually, I agree with you here, at least the part about you never saying you were attacked.
Selfish is not good. Only being on the side of overall freedom is good. Selfish is not on the side of overall freedom. Selfish will increase itself for the overall loss. It will steal 10 things just to get 1. I just realized we never actually asked this question: what is wrong with being selfish? Free market capitalism is based on the idea of everyone being selfish. Had Bill Gates not been as selfish as he had, then he would not have had that vast sum of money to put towards charity (ditto with Warren Buffet).
Only a stupid selfish person steals like that, because they will get caught. An intelligent selfish person finds out exactly what another person wants and others them that in exchange for what they want. That's capitalism, and it's the best system we have yet.
I made a brilliant line of reasoning but you paint all over it with accusations that I'm judging, attacking, etc, so you can't even see my reasoning.
Your line of reasoning was anything but brilliant. It was weak and full of holes. I show why above with my numbered points. Feel free to correct me if I misunderstood something.
No response to what I said about the selfish needing to admit they didn't do it for good reasons or else risk be thrown into the same part of hell with pure evil.
Maybe because it was incoherent. As I said, everyone is selfish. Even helping others is done for selfish reasons: you want to feel good you've helped someone. Again, if you are different please tell me how.
I make conclusions based on reality and reason. The entire chain of reasoning can be laid bare.
I tried, and it looks terrible.
Why shouldn't I judge quickly if it works? I am a good thinker you know, I trust in myself because I know my failiure and success rate of my ideas.
I have a very strong suspicion we will differ on the success rate of your ideas. We come back to the ego point I made earlier (your claim you are the only one you have ever met who isn't selfish, your choice of name, you repeated claims about how good your reasoning is)
All of your posts that I've seen are incoherent rambling messes based on false, poorly defined premises.
You insist freedom is the highest principle. I define freedom as the ability to make choices. I am a Libertarian, and derive my beliefs about freedom from the starting premise of self-ownership. You own your mind, which nobody can take away from you, and your body is the vessel for your mind. Following from that, freedom is my being able to control what I own, and do whatever I like with it (to the degree that I do not affect the ability of other people to do the same). That is freedom, not some vague 'selflessness towards those who believe what I do' that you support.
Re: You're Funny. Pt IIdermanusOctober 2 2006, 00:52:32 UTC
No, you didn't see that chain of thought. You made up the first one, not me.
I suppose when reason doesn't work, we can always turn to contradiction. You said: " But not everyone is selfish. If you can be sadistic, to simply want to do something beyond yourself, why not also want to do something good beyond yourself?" You mentioned selfishness and sadism in the same thought. In later posts (after I made that one) you clarify you stance, but I think that is a perfectly reasonable interpretation of what you wrote.
You got number three wrong, I said there ARE some, not might be.
You have proof of life outside the planet? SETI would like to know, and so would I. How did you discover this?
And the last one you got totally wrong also, it's not about telling, it's EXPLAINING, saying perfectly true and logical stuff. If I were just telling I could tell a lie right?
How naive are you? Do you really think it's impossible to make a misleading argument using sound logic? Here's an easy one right off the top of my head: The average American has one ovary and one testicle. That is completely true and logical, and also horribly misleading. Explaining is quite different then just "saying perfectly true and logical stuff". It means promoting understanding, which by the now two people on here who don't have a clue what you're saying, you've failed at.
So much for inspecting reason, you create lies and hope to fool other people as that is reasoning.
Where did I lie? Back it up or withdraw it.
The rest of your post is just as bad, actually worse. OK sure you know the succses rate of my ideas, you being a clairvoyant with instant access to all the years of my life.
Strawman.
I base my prediction on what I've seen.
I am an inventive successful software developer, I know how to create new ideas that work, and I know how to test and prove that my ideas do work, thank you very much.
Being skilled in one realm does not make you skilled in another. Morality and software are quite different things. It would be like my citing Einstein about gardening. It's nonsensical.
"2) Everyone I've ever met except me is selfish" That one too is wrong, if you consider my past lives.
Oh, I didn't know you had past lives. How do you know this? Can you prove it? Otherwise it's irrelevant to this argument. And incidently, if you can prove it this guy would like to give you $1,000,000.
You said: "Maybe everyone I've met in my lifetime (Except for myself) is [selfish]" How is my rewording of that into point 2 wrong?
More questions you didn't answer: I just realized we never actually asked this question: what is wrong with being selfish? Free market capitalism is based on the idea of everyone being selfish. Had Bill Gates not been as selfish as he had, then he would not have had that vast sum of money to put towards charity (ditto with Warren Buffet).
I think to understand you we need some background-cherubrock33October 2 2006, 12:11:32 UTC
Were you picked on alot as I child, I know I sure was.
I was taken advantage of at every step, for my blind kindness. The main guy and his friends that picked on my were ruthless. I was depressed, and wanted very much to die. but I had one friend, in a different grade, and she was always there for me, when she could. We had our own dellusions, about our past lives, and that we had magical powers, it was real to me. ( I even had an older guy that was a witch curse me, and since I had sleep paralysis and hallucinations and heard voices in that state, I thought he really had) I was in a christian school and wanted to be the best person there was. It seemed everyone else was reguritating what they were told. Sometime after a rumour was passed that I was faking my sprained ankle to get sympathy, the girls became exceptionally mean, talking as if I was not there, but as though I was scum on the bottom of thier shoe, it blew me away. when one day I came in, I had been drinking boost (a drink for meal replacement, because it was damn better than my soggy sandwiches) and the girls came up to me and said " Erin, you're not fat, you're really skinny, you don't need to worry about your weight" I wasn't worried. but they cared in their own way.
I very quickly realized, after trying to be more christian, that I just wasn't meant to be christian, I thought for myself more than they liked.
The guys literally drove me insane that one week that everyone but us had left for the quebec trip. I snapped when he asked me to punch him in the face. I ridgehanded him, which hurts alot more, made him bleed.
After that they left me alone, I got up infront of the school at graduation and sang, from then on they all respected me, I realized that it was hard for alot of the girls to relate to me because I didn't have the same insecurities, and lived in my dreamworld.
I realized that some boys act the way they do because it's fun, and they can't stand weakness in others. The weak don't survive.
For years I was playing a victim, and I realized that that is just no way to live life, no one benefits, people will grow to dislike you for being too good, they feel you are imposing too much on them- how do they repay you? Are you trying to show them up? You may be silently demanding, too needy, and they know they can't be there everytime you need them. People have their own burdens- sometimes it's hard enough dealing with just their own, and I realized when I looked that purity was a crock. What we are told about true love isn't true, what we are told about being absolutely unselfish isnt't forwarding to humanity.
I don't hate a single person that was mean to me. Because they are the storm, and I am the rock. I found understanding, I know where the good inside them lies. I know that life can bring us all down.
I think this was a reasonable description of the past that mostly made me the way I am today. Let's hear yours. I am not very good at arguing I admit, I am much better at trying to understand people.
I will listen if you share about yourself okay? I'm not trying to make myself look better, I just want to relate to you. To be able to see yourself in another person- clearly and where they differ. Nomatter how different one person is to another, there is always something, some little thing that will allow you to connect.
Like how the average person who lies is beneath you and doesn't deserve your help?
You see, I may judge but I judge based on a chain of reasoning, which I did fully explain.
You poorly explained your poor reasoning. Looking back, I see the following chain of thought:
1) Selfishness and sadism are the same thing
2) Everyone I've ever met except me is selfish
3) If you look outside the planet you might find some non-selfish people (?)
4) I haven't had my needs taken care of (Which is guess means there aren't enough selfless people around willing to give you stuff?)
5) When I tell people I want things, they don't want to help me
What you are doing there is making false statements with no attempt to back it up by connecting it to my words.
Solving the problem right here, baby.
I never said you attacked me. Another statement about me based on no quote from me.
Actually, I agree with you here, at least the part about you never saying you were attacked.
Selfish is not good. Only being on the side of overall freedom is good. Selfish is not on the side of overall freedom. Selfish will increase itself for the overall loss. It will steal 10 things just to get 1.
I just realized we never actually asked this question: what is wrong with being selfish? Free market capitalism is based on the idea of everyone being selfish. Had Bill Gates not been as selfish as he had, then he would not have had that vast sum of money to put towards charity (ditto with Warren Buffet).
Only a stupid selfish person steals like that, because they will get caught. An intelligent selfish person finds out exactly what another person wants and others them that in exchange for what they want. That's capitalism, and it's the best system we have yet.
I made a brilliant line of reasoning but you paint all over it with accusations that I'm judging, attacking, etc, so you can't even see my reasoning.
Your line of reasoning was anything but brilliant. It was weak and full of holes. I show why above with my numbered points. Feel free to correct me if I misunderstood something.
No response to what I said about the selfish needing to admit they didn't do it for good reasons or else risk be thrown into the same part of hell with pure evil.
Maybe because it was incoherent. As I said, everyone is selfish. Even helping others is done for selfish reasons: you want to feel good you've helped someone. Again, if you are different please tell me how.
I make conclusions based on reality and reason. The entire chain of reasoning can be laid bare.
I tried, and it looks terrible.
Why shouldn't I judge quickly if it works? I am a good thinker you know, I trust in myself because I know my failiure and success rate of my ideas.
I have a very strong suspicion we will differ on the success rate of your ideas. We come back to the ego point I made earlier (your claim you are the only one you have ever met who isn't selfish, your choice of name, you repeated claims about how good your reasoning is)
All of your posts that I've seen are incoherent rambling messes based on false, poorly defined premises.
You insist freedom is the highest principle. I define freedom as the ability to make choices. I am a Libertarian, and derive my beliefs about freedom from the starting premise of self-ownership. You own your mind, which nobody can take away from you, and your body is the vessel for your mind. Following from that, freedom is my being able to control what I own, and do whatever I like with it (to the degree that I do not affect the ability of other people to do the same). That is freedom, not some vague 'selflessness towards those who believe what I do' that you support.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
I suppose when reason doesn't work, we can always turn to contradiction.
You said: "
But not everyone is selfish. If you can be sadistic, to simply want to do something beyond yourself, why not also want to do something good beyond yourself?" You mentioned selfishness and sadism in the same thought. In later posts (after I made that one) you clarify you stance, but I think that is a perfectly reasonable interpretation of what you wrote.
You got number three wrong, I said there ARE some, not might be.
You have proof of life outside the planet? SETI would like to know, and so would I. How did you discover this?
And the last one you got totally wrong also, it's not about telling, it's EXPLAINING, saying perfectly true and logical stuff. If I were just telling I could tell a lie right?
How naive are you? Do you really think it's impossible to make a misleading argument using sound logic? Here's an easy one right off the top of my head: The average American has one ovary and one testicle. That is completely true and logical, and also horribly misleading. Explaining is quite different then just "saying perfectly true and logical stuff". It means promoting understanding, which by the now two people on here who don't have a clue what you're saying, you've failed at.
So much for inspecting reason, you create lies and hope to fool other people as that is reasoning.
Where did I lie? Back it up or withdraw it.
The rest of your post is just as bad, actually worse. OK sure you know the succses rate of my ideas, you being a clairvoyant with instant access to all the years of my life.
Strawman.
I base my prediction on what I've seen.
I am an inventive successful software developer, I know how to create new ideas that work, and I know how to test and prove that my ideas do work, thank you very much.
Being skilled in one realm does not make you skilled in another. Morality and software are quite different things. It would be like my citing Einstein about gardening. It's nonsensical.
"2) Everyone I've ever met except me is selfish"
That one too is wrong, if you consider my past lives.
Oh, I didn't know you had past lives. How do you know this? Can you prove it? Otherwise it's irrelevant to this argument. And incidently, if you can prove it this guy would like to give you $1,000,000.
You said: "Maybe everyone I've met in my lifetime (Except for myself) is [selfish]" How is my rewording of that into point 2 wrong?
More questions you didn't answer:
I just realized we never actually asked this question: what is wrong with being selfish? Free market capitalism is based on the idea of everyone being selfish. Had Bill Gates not been as selfish as he had, then he would not have had that vast sum of money to put towards charity (ditto with Warren Buffet).
Reply
I know I sure was.
I was taken advantage of at every step,
for my blind kindness. The main guy and his friends that picked on my were ruthless. I was depressed, and wanted very much to die. but I had one friend,
in a different grade, and she was always there for me, when she could. We had our own dellusions,
about our past lives, and that we had magical powers, it was real to me.
( I even had an older guy that was a witch curse me, and since I had sleep paralysis and hallucinations and heard voices in that state, I thought he really had)
I was in a christian school and wanted to be the best person there was.
It seemed everyone else was reguritating what they were told.
Sometime after a rumour was passed that I was faking my sprained ankle to get sympathy, the girls became exceptionally mean, talking as if I was not there, but as though I was scum on the bottom of thier shoe, it blew me away. when one day I came in, I had been drinking boost (a drink for meal replacement, because it was damn better than my soggy sandwiches) and the girls came up to me and said " Erin, you're not fat, you're really skinny, you don't need to worry about your weight" I wasn't worried. but they cared in their own way.
I very quickly realized, after trying to be more christian, that I just wasn't meant to be christian, I thought for myself more than they liked.
The guys literally drove me insane that one week that everyone but us had left for the quebec trip. I snapped when he asked me to punch him in the face. I ridgehanded him, which hurts alot more, made him bleed.
After that they left me alone,
I got up infront of the school at graduation and sang,
from then on they all respected me, I realized that it was hard for alot of the girls to relate to me because I didn't have the same insecurities, and lived in my dreamworld.
I realized that some boys act the way they do because it's fun, and they can't stand weakness in others. The weak don't survive.
For years I was playing a victim, and I realized that that is just no way to live life, no one benefits, people will grow to dislike you for being too good, they feel you are imposing too much on them- how do they repay you? Are you trying to show them up? You may be silently demanding, too needy, and they know they can't be there everytime you need them. People have their own burdens- sometimes it's hard enough dealing with just their own, and I realized when I looked that purity was a crock.
What we are told about true love isn't true, what we are told about being absolutely unselfish isnt't forwarding to humanity.
I don't hate a single person that was mean to me.
Because they are the storm, and I am the rock.
I found understanding, I know where the good inside them lies.
I know that life can bring us all down.
I think this was a reasonable description of the past that mostly made me the way I am today. Let's hear yours.
I am not very good at arguing I admit,
I am much better at trying to understand people.
I will listen if you share about yourself okay?
I'm not trying to make myself look better, I just want to relate to you.
To be able to see yourself in another person- clearly and where they differ.
Nomatter how different one person is to another, there is always something, some little thing that will allow you to connect.
Reply
Leave a comment